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2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1821 » by 3toheadmelo » Tue May 5, 2020 1:27 pm

god shammgod wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:
god shammgod wrote:this is a philosophical argument more than anything. i would rather take someone with higher upside potential even if he also has higher bust potential. i'm not trying to hit an easy double with a top 10 pick, i'm swinging to go deep and if i miss so be it.


I used to feel this way completely, especially when it came to picking knox(I’m still holding out hope) but idk anymore.

Knox completely shattered this line of thinking for me.


i never saw it for knox though because he had no dog in him even in college.

I hopped off the Knox bandwagon a month into the college season :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1822 » by robillionaire » Tue May 5, 2020 1:44 pm

I'm still holding out hope knox could turn into a decent rotation player if he puts in the work required to improve. he's still pretty young. younger than about half the players in this draft. I'm just going to think of him as another incoming rookie who had a couple tough seasons and hope he really busts his ass this summer. the knicks should have stashed him in the g league and let him get more developmental time
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1823 » by mpharris36 » Tue May 5, 2020 2:29 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:
I used to feel this way completely, especially when it came to picking knox(I’m still holding out hope) but idk anymore.

Knox completely shattered this line of thinking for me.


i never saw it for knox though because he had no dog in him even in college.

I hopped off the Knox bandwagon a month into the college season :lol:


and you were super high on knox in high school. Like SUPER high
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1824 » by WargamesX » Tue May 5, 2020 2:30 pm

robillionaire wrote:I'm still holding out hope knox could turn into a decent rotation player if he puts in the work required to improve. he's still pretty young. younger than about half the players in this draft. I'm just going to think of him as another incoming rookie who had a couple tough seasons and hope he really busts his ass this summer. the knicks should have stashed him in the g league and let him get more developmental time


Knox has shown a lot more flashes that he won't be a bust than most. Knicks just messing up his development and burying him on the bench.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1825 » by mpharris36 » Tue May 5, 2020 2:36 pm

WargamesX wrote:
robillionaire wrote:I'm still holding out hope knox could turn into a decent rotation player if he puts in the work required to improve. he's still pretty young. younger than about half the players in this draft. I'm just going to think of him as another incoming rookie who had a couple tough seasons and hope he really busts his ass this summer. the knicks should have stashed him in the g league and let him get more developmental time


Knox has shown a lot more flashes that he won't be a bust than most. Knicks just messing up his development and burying him on the bench.


I just don't think he's ever had the mental makeup. In high school he just was so much more physically advanced then anyone he was playing so he dominated. In college he had moments but coasted way too much. Now that everyone in the league has his size and physical abilities his lack of mental makeup really shows.

He also has cement blocks for feet
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1826 » by robillionaire » Tue May 5, 2020 2:43 pm

WargamesX wrote:
robillionaire wrote:I'm still holding out hope knox could turn into a decent rotation player if he puts in the work required to improve. he's still pretty young. younger than about half the players in this draft. I'm just going to think of him as another incoming rookie who had a couple tough seasons and hope he really busts his ass this summer. the knicks should have stashed him in the g league and let him get more developmental time


Knox has shown a lot more flashes that he won't be a bust than most. Knicks just messing up his development and burying him on the bench.


Yeah, I think he was about to get more minutes to end the season especially with morris gone and then the virus happened

he was rookie of the month in december 2018 i'm just going to cling to that forever

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1827 » by 3toheadmelo » Tue May 5, 2020 2:44 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
i never saw it for knox though because he had no dog in him even in college.

I hopped off the Knox bandwagon a month into the college season :lol:


and you were super high on knox in high school. Like SUPER high

Why do you think I said I hopped off the bandwagon :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1828 » by robillionaire » Tue May 5, 2020 2:50 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
robillionaire wrote:I'm still holding out hope knox could turn into a decent rotation player if he puts in the work required to improve. he's still pretty young. younger than about half the players in this draft. I'm just going to think of him as another incoming rookie who had a couple tough seasons and hope he really busts his ass this summer. the knicks should have stashed him in the g league and let him get more developmental time


Knox has shown a lot more flashes that he won't be a bust than most. Knicks just messing up his development and burying him on the bench.


I just don't think he's ever had the mental makeup. In high school he just was so much more physically advanced then anyone he was playing so he dominated. In college he had moments but coasted way too much. Now that everyone in the league has his size and physical abilities his lack of mental makeup really shows.


That's true I do think most of it is mental and inexperience. On top of all that playing for the knicks is a trial by fire. It's the toughest media market in the world. Some kids can't handle it. He didn't even become a basketball player until later in life he was trying to play football until he got too tall, and never developed the skills and who knows if he will ever be able to learn them

on the other hand you look at someone like lamelo play, dude looks like he was born with a basketball in his hands. born to ball
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1829 » by mpharris36 » Tue May 5, 2020 2:50 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:I hopped off the Knox bandwagon a month into the college season :lol:


and you were super high on knox in high school. Like SUPER high

Why do you think I said I hopped off the bandwagon :lol:


oh I know you did but thats why high school scouting reports in general mean nothing. The competition is likely way to suspect to get a good read. You can see Giannis/Durant in Knox in high school but then realize he is playing some 5'11 kid named Tommy.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1830 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue May 5, 2020 2:50 pm

Jonathon Wasserman had a recent article on best/worst case for some younger players that was pretty good. I agree with his take on Knox. He can/should get better, but even as a best case might just be a scoring specialist off the bench....needs more minutes as a stretch 4. Also covered Frank and DSJ...


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889449-best-and-worst-case-scenarios-for-nbas-unproven-youth

Best case

The New York Knicks have done little to aid in Kevin Knox II's development. They dramatically reduced his minutes last year, and since they added a handful of power forwards in free agency, he's played the 3 for 77 percent of his possessions.

The best-case scenario is Knox turns into a stretch 4 who creates mismatches for bigs with his shooting range and face-up play. But to get there, something needs to happen with his shot. His shooting numbers were disappointing in 2019-20: 32.7 percent from three, 31.0 percent catch-and-shoot, 31.3 percent off the dribble.

But the makes still looked good on his high-arching shot, and given his age, there is still enough room for optimism with his consistency. The 2018 ninth overall pick just may require a more consistent role to build some rhythm/confidence, whether it's with the Knicks or another team. If he receives one and his shooting numbers start to improve, Knox may turn into a more valued 6'9" 4 who can stretch the floor.

He's also flashed the ability to attack closeouts and use the runner for scoring in the lane, so he's not just a one-dimensional perimeter threat.

His ceiling doesn't appear to be as high as it did on draft night, given how badly he's struggled to create and finish. He was never proficient at generating his own offense, even dating back to his freshman year at Kentucky. So it's more realistic to expect a best-case Knox being valued exclusively for his shotmaking off spot-ups, screens, quick pull-ups and runners in the lane.

It is not reasonable to expect isolation scoring or playmaking to become part of Knox's offensive package.

Defensively, Knox was bad early, but he made some progress in 2019-20. He has the body, mobility and reputation for work ethic to become a serviceable defender as his IQ and awareness grow.

Overall, if Knox hits his upside, he would be a shot-making specialist, possibly one worth starting on the right team that needs offense and has creators, passers and rim protection. Projecting him as a bench scorer is more realistic.



Worst case

Worst case, Knox can't improve on his poor finishing feel in traffic (38.1 percent around the basket), and he continues to struggle with shooting inconsistency. If that's the case, a good team wouldn't have any use for him.

The Knicks still have incentive to find minutes for Knox to develop. But New York's poor spacing, plus Julius Randle's presence, makes it difficult to picture the team's 2018 lottery pick making a big jump.

His floor is benchwarmer low, but at the least, it's reasonable to expect Knox to improve his jumper just enough to remain relevant, given teams' interest in shooting bigs.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1831 » by mpharris36 » Tue May 5, 2020 2:54 pm

robillionaire wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
Knox has shown a lot more flashes that he won't be a bust than most. Knicks just messing up his development and burying him on the bench.


I just don't think he's ever had the mental makeup. In high school he just was so much more physically advanced then anyone he was playing so he dominated. In college he had moments but coasted way too much. Now that everyone in the league has his size and physical abilities his lack of mental makeup really shows.


That's true I do think most of it is mental and inexperience. On top of all that playing for the knicks is a trial by fire. It's the toughest media market in the world. Some kids can't handle it. He didn't even become a basketball player until later in life he was trying to play football until he got too tall, and never developed the skills and who knows if he will ever be able to learn them

on the other hand you look at someone like lamelo play, dude looks like he was born with a basketball in his hands. born to ball


a lot of the league is inexperienced now. Some guys just have a basketball IQ and some don't. Different skills can be worked on but you really either have basketball smarts or you don't.

Now if a team eventually limits Knox role to a small ball 4 where he just stretches the floor and runs the floor in transition and surrounds him with defensive minded players you probably can hide him on that end. I just don't think he processes the game fast enough to be a big impact player.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1832 » by 3toheadmelo » Tue May 5, 2020 2:56 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
and you were super high on knox in high school. Like SUPER high

Why do you think I said I hopped off the bandwagon :lol:


oh I know you did but thats why high school scouting reports in general mean nothing. The competition is likely way to suspect to get a good read. You can see Giannis/Durant in Knox in high school but then realize he is playing some 5'11 kid named Tommy.

Ya that’s why I don’t get why people keep bringing up Wisemans scouting reports. They’re pretty irrelevant.

At least highlights show some of their potential. Knox still has some potential but I doubt he will put it together
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1833 » by WargamesX » Tue May 5, 2020 2:58 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I just don't think he's ever had the mental makeup. In high school he just was so much more physically advanced then anyone he was playing so he dominated. In college he had moments but coasted way too much. Now that everyone in the league has his size and physical abilities his lack of mental makeup really shows.


That's true I do think most of it is mental and inexperience. On top of all that playing for the knicks is a trial by fire. It's the toughest media market in the world. Some kids can't handle it. He didn't even become a basketball player until later in life he was trying to play football until he got too tall, and never developed the skills and who knows if he will ever be able to learn them

on the other hand you look at someone like lamelo play, dude looks like he was born with a basketball in his hands. born to ball


a lot of the league is inexperienced now. Some guys just have a basketball IQ and some don't. Different skills can be worked on but you really either have basketball smarts or you don't.

Now if a team eventually limits Knox role to a small ball 4 where he just stretches the floor and runs the floor in transition and surrounds him with defensive minded players you probably can hide him on that end. I just don't think he processes the game fast enough to be a big impact player.


My thing is, what wrong with developing him into that small ball 4? He would be a lot more effective at that position, we can all see that aspect of his game being there. If he could do that now, he could then add wrinkles to his game to make him a better player.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1834 » by mpharris36 » Tue May 5, 2020 2:58 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Why do you think I said I hopped off the bandwagon :lol:


oh I know you did but thats why high school scouting reports in general mean nothing. The competition is likely way to suspect to get a good read. You can see Giannis/Durant in Knox in high school but then realize he is playing some 5'11 kid named Tommy.

Ya that’s why I don’t get why people keep bringing up Wisemans scouting reports. They’re pretty irrelevant.

At least highlights show some of their potential. Knox still has some potential but I doubt he will put it together


yeah the only thing is Wiseman has such a small sample size in college as well there is inherent risk in picking someone that has so little tape worth watching. Then you add in the fact they probably won't be able to have individual workouts with him. He is a complete unknown to me.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1835 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue May 5, 2020 2:59 pm

Mills certainly had a type of player he liked, and it wasn't good.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1836 » by mpharris36 » Tue May 5, 2020 3:00 pm

WargamesX wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
That's true I do think most of it is mental and inexperience. On top of all that playing for the knicks is a trial by fire. It's the toughest media market in the world. Some kids can't handle it. He didn't even become a basketball player until later in life he was trying to play football until he got too tall, and never developed the skills and who knows if he will ever be able to learn them

on the other hand you look at someone like lamelo play, dude looks like he was born with a basketball in his hands. born to ball


a lot of the league is inexperienced now. Some guys just have a basketball IQ and some don't. Different skills can be worked on but you really either have basketball smarts or you don't.

Now if a team eventually limits Knox role to a small ball 4 where he just stretches the floor and runs the floor in transition and surrounds him with defensive minded players you probably can hide him on that end. I just don't think he processes the game fast enough to be a big impact player.


My thing is, what wrong with developing him into that small ball 4? He would be a lot more effective at that position, we can all see that aspect of his game being there. If he could do that now, he could then add wrinkles to his game to make him a better player.


they spent 35 million on two bums in Randle and Portis :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1837 » by WargamesX » Tue May 5, 2020 3:01 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
a lot of the league is inexperienced now. Some guys just have a basketball IQ and some don't. Different skills can be worked on but you really either have basketball smarts or you don't.

Now if a team eventually limits Knox role to a small ball 4 where he just stretches the floor and runs the floor in transition and surrounds him with defensive minded players you probably can hide him on that end. I just don't think he processes the game fast enough to be a big impact player.


My thing is, what wrong with developing him into that small ball 4? He would be a lot more effective at that position, we can all see that aspect of his game being there. If he could do that now, he could then add wrinkles to his game to make him a better player.


they spent 35 million on two bums in Randle and Portis :lol:


Well they need to trade both, sign Christian Wood, and then have Knox be the stretch 4 off the bench.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1838 » by mpharris36 » Tue May 5, 2020 3:01 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Mills certainly had a type of player he liked, and it wasn't good.


low basketball iq's with cement feet (knox, THjr..ect) :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1839 » by robillionaire » Tue May 5, 2020 3:08 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
a lot of the league is inexperienced now. Some guys just have a basketball IQ and some don't. Different skills can be worked on but you really either have basketball smarts or you don't.

Now if a team eventually limits Knox role to a small ball 4 where he just stretches the floor and runs the floor in transition and surrounds him with defensive minded players you probably can hide him on that end. I just don't think he processes the game fast enough to be a big impact player.


My thing is, what wrong with developing him into that small ball 4? He would be a lot more effective at that position, we can all see that aspect of his game being there. If he could do that now, he could then add wrinkles to his game to make him a better player.


they spent 35 million on two bums in Randle and Portis :lol:


and morris... and taj gibson...
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1840 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue May 5, 2020 3:08 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Mills certainly had a type of player he liked, and it wasn't good.


low basketball iq's with cement feet (knox, THjr..ect) :lol:


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