OT: TV and Movies (With Spoilers)

Licensed to Il · Post #361 » by **Licensed to Il** » Tue May 5, 2020 6:02 pm

I have been loving "The Last Dance." A few random thoughts:

- Its great to see unaired footage from that era, I thought everything had been leaked. I do find the storyboarding/editing/chronology of the doc to be random and poor

- Though very good as a tactician, Phil Jackson was phenomenal at understanding his players, their personalities, and how to keep them motivated. Also he moves as if he was an original star wars action figure. Not a lot of moving parts on that poor guy

- Forgot what a lights out shooter MJ was during the second dynasty

- Not going to get in to the MJ vs. LeBron thing, but Jordan absolutely lived in a popularity bubble and frenzy greater than what the NBA experiences now. MJ was a global icon and crossover star on a larger scale than any other basketball player has been

- Just personality wise, MJ seems like a much better guy now, than he was in his 30s. Pip is still a super uptight dude

- Documentaries are weird how they present conflicting info... MJ looks at the camera without hesitation and says Horace was the in team source for the unflattering book written about him. Horace passionately denies it. Lots of that kind of stuff with Krause, Riensdorf, Jackson, etc too in the doc. Who to believe?

DingleJerry · Post #362 » by **DingleJerry** » Tue May 5, 2020 7:00 pm

One takeaway I thought of in the last episode was in regards to the media bubble and criticism stuff you mentioned, specifically as it pertains to LBJ. I'd generally agree MJs situation was bigger, however he also didn't have to deal with internet/twitter, phone cameras everywhere, 24/7 talking head cable tv bs like now. So it somewhat balances in my opinion. IT's pretty evident how much that was cracking MJ even just at the first retirement. IMO this is a big plus on the LBJ side that he has powered through all this relatively well with next to no controversies, no public whining about it and threatening to quit, etc. I mean, MJ basically got criticized once and immediately got bitter about it and wanted to quit. Due to the twitter and talking head bs LBJ has had to deal with this negative element his whole career and he hasn't let it crack him. Though I do think it probably contributed a tad to some of his early clam up moments in big spots.

Overall though, it's still crazy to see the accounts of MJ from his peers. He was that good, even as someone who grew up hating him due to being on the Bulls his crazy competitiveness is top notch. THankfully I think Giannis has that in him too, like MJ Bird Kobe, etc. Sometimes though it isn't enough, Westbrook has it too.

Also, sure is nice to have at least something new to watch. I think I saw Kobe's last season also had similar full access like this, so something like this will eventually be coming.

Licensed to Il · Post #363 » by **Licensed to Il** » Tue May 5, 2020 7:15 pm

I agree with you that Lebron has handled fame and celebrity extremely well, even better than Jordan. I also agree fame is different and somehow even more all encompassing now, via internet and more media platforms. So I agree with almost all your points. And yet, when LeBron shoots free throws half the visiting arena doesn’t take pictures. He would not sell out the Atlanta dome in a regular season game. France would be interested if he visited, but thousands wouldn’t surround his hotel.

I have no compulsion to compare MJ and LeBron as players, just too different stylistically. I do find MJ more interesting, as the ratings of this doc seem to support.

Post #364 » by **MickeyDavis** » Tue May 5, 2020 7:15 pm

I like the chronology and how they jump back and forth. Two stories, before baseball and after baseball. And the baseball years will be covered as well. And I've enjoyed having the other main cogs get their own arc, Pippen, Jackson, Rodman, Krause and to a lesser extent Kukoc. Very well done doc.

The guy pitching quarters with Jordan, John Wozniak, was a Chicago narcotics cop who worked security at the United Center. Jordan liked him and hired him for his personal security and he worked for Jordan until his death in January (when he got too sick to work Jordan kept paying him). Interesting interview with Wozniak's son in The Athletic.

DingleJerry · Post #365 » by **DingleJerry** » Tue May 5, 2020 8:59 pm

Licensed to Il wrote:I agree with you that Lebron has handled fame and celebrity extremely well, even better than Jordan. I also agree fame is different and somehow even more all encompassing now, via internet and more media platforms. So I agree with almost all your points. And yet, when LeBron shoots free throws half the visiting arena doesn’t take pictures. He would not sell out the Atlanta dome in a regular season game. France would be interested if he visited, but thousands wouldn’t surround his hotel.

I have no compulsion to compare MJ and LeBron as players, just too different stylistically. I do find MJ more interesting, as the ratings of this doc seem to support.

Yup, pretty much agree. your post made me think of another element or angle too when I read the Atlanta dome comment. Another element of the explosion of media is that we have access and exposure to all the games all the time now. When MJ played very few had cable tv and even still his games weren't all on like now. So that kind of creates more of a spectacle and mythology around a guy and more urgency to see when he comes to town. Now, you get a better view on TV for free. Think examples of this show in how 'huge' every football game is because there so few per year. Or cycling back years and years think of how godlike big time baseball players were like Ruth and Mantle, everything was word of mouth and print stories that built up these godlike images. Then you just had to see them in person when they came. This is not a commentary or comparison of MJ/LBJ in anyway. Just saying how different the world is now. That said, I do think the clickbaiting negativity of the media these days is making a big portion of folks not appreciating what they have in LBJ right now. I'm sure it happened with MJ too, but for LBJ I think we can all attest to the draw he's been his whole career if you ever tried to get tickets when he's in town.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #366 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Tue May 5, 2020 10:38 pm

Jordan was/is more famous than LeBron but I don't think there's ever been a basketball player as famous at such an early age as LeBron. He was the next big thing at like 14/15 years old. He's basically never had any semblance of a normal life and it's pretty remarkable how well he's handled it.

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Post #367 » by **ReasonablySober** » Tue May 5, 2020 11:04 pm

Read on Twitter

Whoa.

jakecronus8 · Post #368 » by **jakecronus8** » Tue May 5, 2020 11:24 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Jordan was/is more famous than LeBron but I don't think there's ever been a basketball player as famous at such an early age as LeBron. He was the next big thing at like 14/15 years old. He's basically never had any semblance of a normal life and it's pretty remarkable how well he's handled it.

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Agreed and other than some of the typical egocentric stuff that applies to most famous people, Lebron seems like a pretty good dude. I wish I could call him the goat since by comparison MJ is a total **** stain.

emunney · Post #369 » by **emunney** » Wed May 6, 2020 1:16 am

Licensed to Il wrote:I agree with you that Lebron has handled fame and celebrity extremely well, even better than Jordan. I also agree fame is different and somehow even more all encompassing now, via internet and more media platforms. So I agree with almost all your points. And yet, when LeBron shoots free throws half the visiting arena doesn’t take pictures. He would not sell out the Atlanta dome in a regular season game. France would be interested if he visited, but thousands wouldn’t surround his hotel.

I have no compulsion to compare MJ and LeBron as players, just too different stylistically. I do find MJ more interesting, as the ratings of this doc seem to support.

I think it takes a particular personality and support system to handle that level of fame. Both of those guys are extraordinary in how well they've adapted. IMO not only is LeBron better adjusted, though, he also faced taller odds as he was anointed as an adolescent. That alone is enough to shatter the psyche of most people.

emunney · Post #370 » by **emunney** » Fri May 8, 2020 6:11 pm

Not a Pete Davidson guy but this looks like it could be a Good Movie

Read on Twitter

HaroldinGMinor · Post #371 » by **HaroldinGMinor** » Sat May 9, 2020 4:16 am

Dead to Me

Spoiler:

HaroldinGMinor · Post #372 » by **HaroldinGMinor** » Sat May 9, 2020 4:17 am

Anybody watch Zero Zero Zero on Amazon? It's pretty freaking good.

emunney · Post #373 » by **emunney** » Sat May 9, 2020 7:17 am

HaroldinGMinor wrote:Dead to Me
Spoiler:
is episode 1 of season 2 the earliest any show has ever jumped the shark?

Haven't watched Dead to Me but Cop Rock jumped the shark in the pitch room.

drew881 · Post #374 » by **drew881** » Sun May 10, 2020 9:05 pm

emunney wrote:
HaroldinGMinor wrote:Dead to Me
Spoiler:
is episode 1 of season 2 the earliest any show has ever jumped the shark?

Haven't watched Dead to Me but Cop Rock jumped the shark in the pitch room.

The Leftovers, SE 2, Ep 1
Newsroom, SE 1, Ep 2

/unpopular opinion

WRau1 · Post #375 » by **WRau1** » Sun May 10, 2020 9:17 pm

HaroldinGMinor wrote:Dead to Me
Spoiler:
is episode 1 of season 2 the earliest any show has ever jumped the shark?

Heroes was pretty awful after s1.

Post #376 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sun May 10, 2020 9:19 pm

HaroldinGMinor wrote:Anybody watch Zero Zero Zero on Amazon? It's pretty freaking good.

Definitely. Very good.

Bucksfan28 · Post #377 » by **Bucksfan28** » Sun May 10, 2020 9:26 pm

Finally watching Mad Men. Six eps in and see its potential to live up to the reputation. Ill be breezing through this one.

Post #378 » by **ReasonablySober** » Mon May 11, 2020 12:48 pm

RIP Jerry Stiller.

emunney · Post #379 » by **emunney** » Mon May 11, 2020 2:02 pm

"Many Christmases ago, I went to buy a doll for my son..."

WeekapaugGroove · Post #380 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Mon May 11, 2020 6:15 pm

I'm enjoying the last dance. I grew up in that era so it's filled with some cool nostalgia. Now I was not a fan of Jordan at the time so maybe this is influenced by that but some of the doc really gets a little over the top with the fawning hero worship.

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