2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably)

[TheHrvReport]

My top 5

Edwards
Avdija
Okongwu
Hayes
Ball

[Chi town]

Any team built around Simmons as the guy is ultimately doomed.

Why? Great ball handler, passer, rebounder, defender. A guy like that paired with a Lavine, some additional outside shooting and defense could be lethal.

He literally won't and can't shoot outside the paint. He shoots in the low 60s from the FT Line.

He'd improve our team, but we'd be topped out as a 2nd round playoff team with no way to grow further. And we'd need to cobble together a top defense to even reach that ceiling which is no easy task at all when Lavine is your #2. Also not convinced Simmons is all that elite defensively. Seemed very prone to off-ball defensive mistakes whenever I watched him.

I’ve been saying the same thing. Unless you have players better than Simmons I don’t think you can it all w him.

I don’t think he will ever be able to shoot either

[moorhosj]

There is no such thing as "highest ceiling" "highest floor" "potential" or whatever you wanna call it. That's just us projecting expectations onto them, which should not be done in the first place. It's not an objective quantitative measure. It's all emotional subjective crap I don't buy into.

If Okongwu and Killian Hayes are gone by the time we pick at 7 and Haliburton is still available, I take him with no hesitation.

Isn’t projecting expectations on prospects the literal reason for scouting to exist? You take in all the information you can on a player and hope to project what type of player he can become in your system.

If you aren’t using “floor”, “ceiling”, or “potential” how did you end up liking Hayes and Okongwu?

[Big Pippen]

The only professional regret that Paxson and Foreman have, are getting fired before they had a chance to draft Haliburton.

"a non flashy, fundamentally sound guy, without elite athleticism? I'm on board." Pax

"he's from Iowa State? Checks all my boxes." Gar

[Rani858]

I like Okongwu and Josh Green

[The Box Office]

There is no such thing as "highest ceiling" "highest floor" "potential" or whatever you wanna call it. That's just us projecting expectations onto them, which should not be done in the first place. It's not an objective quantitative measure. It's all emotional subjective crap I don't buy into.

If Okongwu and Killian Hayes are gone by the time we pick at 7 and Haliburton is still available, I take him with no hesitation.

Isn’t projecting expectations on prospects the literal reason for scouting to exist? You take in all the information you can on a player and hope to project what type of player he can become in your system.

If you aren’t using “floor”, “ceiling”, or “potential” how did you end up liking Hayes and Okongwu?

Because I like what they have shown RIGHT NOW, not 3 years later. I don't know how they're gonna turn out 3 years from now. I just like what I'm seeing presently.

[CoreyVillains]

Read on Twitter

[The Box Office]

The only professional regret that Paxson and Foreman have, are getting fired before they had a chance to draft Haliburton.

"a non flashy, fundamentally sound guy, without elite athleticism? I'm on board." Pax

"he's from Iowa State? Checks all my boxes." Gar

? Not once did I think about that about Haliburton. Each player is different anyway. Normally, I probably would agree with you. If I didn't do scouting myself.

Haliburton's passing can get flashy. Plus, he's pretty damn good on defense right now. He can definitely run an offense. He has handles.

- His shot selection is great.
- Crafty.
- Very patient.
- He hits his free throws
- Doesn't mess up on defense where he becomes a huge liability. He's actually an asset on that end. He has a knack of getting a lot of steals.

Otherwise, I wouldn't have praised him. If a team, ahead of us, takes Haliburton then that's fine with me. Life goes on.

So he's non-athletic? That would be a big problem if Tyrese didn't have the basketball skills. Don't have to be athletic to stick in the NBA. Look at Larry Bird, Stockton, Alvin Robertson, Bill Cartwright, Charles Oakley, Deron Williams, Mark Price, Brandon Roy, and Nikola Jokic.

[The Box Office]

There is no such thing as "highest ceiling" "highest floor" "potential" or whatever you wanna call it. That's just us projecting expectations onto them, which should not be done in the first place. It's not an objective quantitative measure. It's all emotional subjective crap I don't buy into.

there's certainly such a thing as ceiling and floor, but we may apply it too broadly. and given that we're no longer in the age of the big man, there are fewer sure things than ever. on the other side of the coin, there are guys that simply don't have what it takes physically or skills-wise to ever be superstars. relatively unathletic point guards, for example

The high ceiling/floor thing meant, in the context of my comment, that I would rather draft a player with some demonstrated skills and elite physical attributes with the potential to develop further than a guy who has more refined skills but who has more middle-of-the-pack physical attributes. It's probably a bad example, but think Giannis vs. WCJ.

Yup, it's a bad example. I would never compare. I'm trying my best not to do that. It's a waste of thought. I used to do that.

No one knew that Giannis was gonna become a Superstar League MVP. No one. If anyone knew his "potential," then he should have went number one in the draft. Why did he go to pick 15? If we knew their "highest ceiling," then why didn't we trade up to get Giannis? No one on this board was demanding for a trade to move up to pick Giannis at the time.

Wendell needs one more year. Maybe 2 more seasons. Before we know what he is. He can't handle the rock. He has hard hands. His assists average went up from 1.2 to 1.8. LOL. It's so small that I don't care. If Wendell was averaging 2.3 assists then I would be celebrating.

[drosereturn]

there's certainly such a thing as ceiling and floor, but we may apply it too broadly. and given that we're no longer in the age of the big man, there are fewer sure things than ever. on the other side of the coin, there are guys that simply don't have what it takes physically or skills-wise to ever be superstars. relatively unathletic point guards, for example

The high ceiling/floor thing meant, in the context of my comment, that I would rather draft a player with some demonstrated skills and elite physical attributes with the potential to develop further than a guy who has more refined skills but who has more middle-of-the-pack physical attributes. It's probably a bad example, but think Giannis vs. WCJ.

Yup, it's a bad example. I would never compare. I'm trying my best not to do that. It's a waste of thought. I used to do that.

No one knew that Giannis was gonna become a Superstar League MVP. No one. If anyone knew his "potential," then he should have went number one in the draft. Why did he go to pick 15? If we knew their "highest ceiling," then why didn't we trade up to get Giannis? No one on this board was demanding for a trade to move up to pick Giannis at the time.

Wendell needs one more year. Maybe 2 more seasons. Before we know what he is. He can't handle the rock. He has hard hands. His assists average went up from 1.2 to 1.8. LOL. It's so small that I don't care. If Wendell was averaging 2.3 assists then I would be celebrating.

Giannis had the highest ceiling and wasnt a nobody unlike Jokic. He just had high bust potential as well which was why he went 15.
Bol Bol was the highest ceiling but the Bulls again never bothered to pick him up for free. Similar with MPJ who could have had for peanuts. Undervaluing talented prospects because they have issues is not a good idea. It shows Garpax never worked hard enough to make those proper evaluations while AK clearly did with Jokic, MPJ, Bol.

[sco]

The high ceiling/floor thing meant, in the context of my comment, that I would rather draft a player with some demonstrated skills and elite physical attributes with the potential to develop further than a guy who has more refined skills but who has more middle-of-the-pack physical attributes. It's probably a bad example, but think Giannis vs. WCJ.

Yup, it's a bad example. I would never compare. I'm trying my best not to do that. It's a waste of thought. I used to do that.

No one knew that Giannis was gonna become a Superstar League MVP. No one. If anyone knew his "potential," then he should have went number one in the draft. Why did he go to pick 15? If we knew their "highest ceiling," then why didn't we trade up to get Giannis? No one on this board was demanding for a trade to move up to pick Giannis at the time.

Wendell needs one more year. Maybe 2 more seasons. Before we know what he is. He can't handle the rock. He has hard hands. His assists average went up from 1.2 to 1.8. LOL. It's so small that I don't care. If Wendell was averaging 2.3 assists then I would be celebrating.

Giannis had the highest ceiling and wasnt a nobody unlike Jokic. He just had high bust potential as well which was why he went 15.
Bol Bol was the highest ceiling but the Bulls again never bothered to pick him up for free. Similar with MPJ who could have had for peanuts. Undervaluing talented prospects because they have issues is not a good idea. It shows Garpax never worked hard enough to make those proper evaluations while AK clearly did with Jokic, MPJ, Bol.

Agree!

I will say that I was ok with the Bulls passing on MPJ because I view drafting big injury risk guys with lotto picks, often a bad bet. I am ok doing so late in the 1st where the odds of nabbing a starter being lower anyway.

[moorhosj]

Because I like what they have shown RIGHT NOW, not 3 years later. I don't know how they're gonna turn out 3 years from now. I just like what I'm seeing presently.

Which would be their floor, a valid opinion to have. It's pretty well accepted that teams are consistently weighing what a prospect can do today versus what they have the potential to do tomorrow. It's the only logical option when you are surveying a range of prospects from 18-23 years-old, each at a different development point physically and skills-wise.

It's why Zhaire Smith gets drafted before Jalen Brunson.

[Grodoboldo]

I would like a later 1st round pick to grab Aaron Nesmith. I really like his mix of shooting and slashing on offense while being a decent defender.

[dice]

The high ceiling/floor thing meant, in the context of my comment, that I would rather draft a player with some demonstrated skills and elite physical attributes with the potential to develop further than a guy who has more refined skills but who has more middle-of-the-pack physical attributes. It's probably a bad example, but think Giannis vs. WCJ.

Yup, it's a bad example. I would never compare. I'm trying my best not to do that. It's a waste of thought. I used to do that.

No one knew that Giannis was gonna become a Superstar League MVP. No one. If anyone knew his "potential," then he should have went number one in the draft. Why did he go to pick 15? If we knew their "highest ceiling," then why didn't we trade up to get Giannis? No one on this board was demanding for a trade to move up to pick Giannis at the time.

Wendell needs one more year. Maybe 2 more seasons. Before we know what he is. He can't handle the rock. He has hard hands. His assists average went up from 1.2 to 1.8. LOL. It's so small that I don't care. If Wendell was averaging 2.3 assists then I would be celebrating.

Giannis had the highest ceiling and wasnt a nobody unlike Jokic. He just had high bust potential as well which was why he went 15.
Bol Bol was the highest ceiling but the Bulls again never bothered to pick him up for free. Similar with MPJ who could have had for peanuts. Undervaluing talented prospects because they have issues is not a good idea. It shows Garpax never worked hard enough to make those proper evaluations while AK clearly did with Jokic, MPJ, Bol.

MPJ and bol haven't done anything to warrant labeling them "proper evaluations"

[VolumePoster]

I would like a later 1st round pick to grab Aaron Nesmith. I really like his mix of shooting and slashing on offense while being a decent defender.

I see him being a huge riser. Low lottery. He has one elite skill which happens to be the most critical in the game. Work ethic and athleticism too.

[othawhitemeat]

I would like a later 1st round pick to grab Aaron Nesmith. I really like his mix of shooting and slashing on offense while being a decent defender.

I see him being a huge riser. Low lottery. He has one elite skill which happens to be the most critical in the game. Work ethic and athleticism too.

Yeah, a solid athlete, great work ethic, occasionally puts ball on floor, and elite shooter. Would love to just draft him. Think he will be one of the best players in this draft. Possibly, Klay like, if he can become a solid defender. I'm not saying he will be as good, but has that feel offensively at least.

[othawhitemeat]

Article on Nesmith

https://www.postandcourier.com/moultrie-news/the-complexity-of-aaron-nesmith-the-draft-s-most-intriguing-prospect/article_49d89f70-8e2b-11ea-88f3-17c3aa777d46.html

[Dan Z]

For those who like Onyeka Okongwu do you want to move on from Markkanen or Wendell Carter Jr? Or make it a three big rotation (with Gafford get the rest of the minutes)?

[othawhitemeat]

[tweet][/tweet][quote="Dan Z"]For those who like Onyeka Okongwu do you want to move on from Markkanen or Wendell Carter Jr? Or make it a three big rotation (with Gafford get the rest of the minutes)?[/quote]

I think it depends on what you can get in return. Our new FO is preaching development, two way, and high IQ players. I love the potential of Lauri and feel he was significantly underutilized last season by a moron coach, but also question his toughness. I like the potential of both Lauri and Zach but also feel you can get a landmine if using them both. The Bulls do have some intriguing trade pieces to make us an intriguing 2021 destination. I do like Coby White and Wendell but worry about his health. I think if it was me, I would draft Nesbitt as a high IQ, solid athlete, solid d, and extreme 3 point shooting. I would then package Lauri and Zach for best package if a great one existed, which ai think is possible. Then go hard after Giannis and Anthony Davis next year.

[othawhitemeat]

[tweet][/tweet]

For those who like Onyeka Okongwu do you want to move on from Markkanen or Wendell Carter Jr? Or make it a three big rotation (with Gafford get the rest of the minutes)?

I think it depends on what you can get in return. Our new FO is preaching development, two way, and high IQ players. I love the potential of Lauri and feel he was significantly underutilized last season by a moron coach, but also question his toughness. I like the potential of both Lauri and Zach but also feel you can get a landmine if using them both. The Bulls do have some intriguing trade pieces to make us an intriguing 2021 destination. I do like Coby White and Wendell but worry about his health. I think if it was me, I would draft Nesbitt as a high IQ, solid athlete, solid d, and extreme 3 point shooting. I would then package Lauri and Zach for best package if a great one existed, which ai think is possible. Then go hard after Giannis and Anthony Davis next year.