I Still Know What They Should Do This Summer Brooklyn Nets

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Maybe you could so something around LeVert for Barton?

Hard no. We’re not gonna lower the team’s ceiling to raise the floor. You can raise the floor without moving LeVert.

Like I said he’s only being moved in a deal for a Star, otherwise we’re riding it out for better or worse.

At this point, I think you are over-valuing LeVert, especially given his contract. I don't think you are going to be able to find a star. Maybe a low level one if you include a bunch of picks and use Allen as a trade chip if the receiving team is motivated. I still think Holiday is your best shot, but Barton is coming off an outstanding year whereas Holiday is coming off a down year.

My valuation of LeVert is based off of his potential, which I and many others believe to be at the level of a third star on a championship team. If you don’t believe then yes I am overvaluing him. However, I think the Nets valuation of him is closer to mine than yours and I imagine there are many other teams around the league that would agree. Either way no team in their right mind is gonna sell low on a wing with guard skills.

Stars will become available between now and the 2021 Off Season. All it takes is one impending UFA to say “I want to play with KD/Kyrie in the big city” and suddenly a LeVert, Allen and multiple 1sts package is the best deal on the table.

[getrichordie]

Hard no. We’re not gonna lower the team’s ceiling to raise the floor. You can raise the floor without moving LeVert.

Like I said he’s only being moved in a deal for a Star, otherwise we’re riding it out for better or worse.

At this point, I think you are over-valuing LeVert, especially given his contract. I don't think you are going to be able to find a star. Maybe a low level one if you include a bunch of picks and use Allen as a trade chip if the receiving team is motivated. I still think Holiday is your best shot, but Barton is coming off an outstanding year whereas Holiday is coming off a down year.

My valuation of LeVert is based off of his potential, which I and many others believe to be at the level of a third star on a championship team. If you don’t believe then yes I am overvaluing him. However, I think the Nets valuation of him is closer to mine than yours and I imagine there are many other teams around the league that would agree. Either way no team in their right mind is gonna sell low on a wing with guard skills.

Stars will become available between now and the 2021 Off Season. All it takes is one impending UFA to say “I want to play with KD/Kyrie in the big city” and suddenly a LeVert, Allen and multiple 1sts package is the best deal on the table.

Maybe so, but I don't see it. I see two problems with this line of thinking when polishing a contender.

1. You are counting on an oft-injured player to go from borderline starter to being a third star on a title contender.
2. You are expecting LeVert to be a major piece in a trade for a star.

Can't think of many players making such a leap, especially in their 5th year.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Defensively speaking, the point still stands.

LeVert has shown some flash of being a scorer, but he really is only above average at pull up 3s, which is valuable, but not irreplaceable. He doesn't really excel at driving, being a P&R ball-handler, or in ISO situations, etc. so I struggle to understand why you are so high on him when Harris is more proven and Dinwiddie can do what LeVert can.

And sure you have Dinwiddie, but Dinwiddie isn't better than Schroder and you would be getting his bird rights. Schroder is significantly better. But I understand if there is another, more preferable avenue.

Schroeder is not better than Dinwiddie my friend. Better defender, yes but Dinwiddies impact on the offensive end was significantly higher by every metric and he didn’t have Chris Paul to help him out.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Spencer+Dinwiddie&player_id1_select=Spencer+Dinwiddie&y1=2020&player_id1=dinwisp01&idx=bbr__players&player_id2_hint=Dennis+Schröder&player_id2_select=Dennis+Schröder&y2=2020&player_id2=schrode01&idx=bbr__players

According to Pipm on basketball index it isn’t close either. Dinwiddie’s advantage on offense is more than double Shroders advantage on the defensive end.

Replacing Dinwiddie with Shroder would be extremely questionable even before you consider the fact that Dinwiddie is on a cheaper deal and has a strong relationship with Kyrie/KD and the organization as a whole.

Dinwiddie shot the ball at 31% this year compared to Schroder's 38%. When you take into account that Irving is coming back, what is Dinwiddie's role? Schroder would be much better coming off the bench and his fit next to Irving and Durant is better and would be just as good as Dinwiddie (if not better) at running the team than Dinwiddie would in the event that Kyrie got hurt.

There’s no evidence that Schroder can run a team as well as Dinwiddie has and honestly it’s disrespectful to even suggest that considering how vast the statistical gap is on that end.

Dinwiddies role would be as a 6th man. Someone who can run the offense at high level when Kyrie inevitably misses time due to injury. I have no interest in playing the 6’1 Schroder next to Kyrie against any competitive playoff team. 6’5 Dinwiddie? Maybe.

Regarding 3 pt% I’d be very interested to see what they would look like if Dinwiddie got to play off ball next to CP3 and Shroder’s secondary ball handler was Taurean Prince for 20 games.

[getrichordie]

Schroeder is not better than Dinwiddie my friend. Better defender, yes but Dinwiddies impact on the offensive end was significantly higher by every metric and he didn’t have Chris Paul to help him out.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Spencer+Dinwiddie&player_id1_select=Spencer+Dinwiddie&y1=2020&player_id1=dinwisp01&idx=bbr__players&player_id2_hint=Dennis+Schröder&player_id2_select=Dennis+Schröder&y2=2020&player_id2=schrode01&idx=bbr__players

According to Pipm on basketball index it isn’t close either. Dinwiddie’s advantage on offense is more than double Shroders advantage on the defensive end.

Replacing Dinwiddie with Shroder would be extremely questionable even before you consider the fact that Dinwiddie is on a cheaper deal and has a strong relationship with Kyrie/KD and the organization as a whole.

Dinwiddie shot the ball at 31% this year compared to Schroder's 38%. When you take into account that Irving is coming back, what is Dinwiddie's role? Schroder would be much better coming off the bench and his fit next to Irving and Durant is better and would be just as good as Dinwiddie (if not better) at running the team than Dinwiddie would in the event that Kyrie got hurt.

There’s no evidence that Schroder can run a team as well as Dinwiddie has and honestly it’s disrespectful to even suggest that considering how vast the statistical gap is on that end.

Dinwiddies role would be as a 6th man. Someone who can run the offense at high level when Kyrie inevitably misses time due to injury. I have no interest in playing the 6’1 Schroder next to Kyrie against any competitive playoff team. 6’5 Dinwiddie? Maybe.

Regarding 3 pt% I’d be very interested to see what they would look like if Dinwiddie got to play off ball next to CP3 and Shroder’s secondary ball handler was Taurean Prince for 20 games.

Schroder was actually shooting 35% on catch and shoot 3s last year. This year he was shooting 42% on catch and shoot 3s, and while Paul is certainly a benefit playing next to, so would be Durant and Irving. I'd say that taking advantage of his opportunities and spacing is a big plus. Schroder is shorter yet still puts up better defensive numbers. Height doesn't have much to do with defensive impact in the NBA. I'd personally rather have Schroder/Irving than Dinwiddie/Irving.

Just a personal preference I suppose but both pairings have merits, I guess. FWIW, I wanted Presti to trade for Dinwiddie 3-4 seasons ago. I was one of the first to see him turning the corner towards the end of the season back in 2015-16 or whenever it was.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

At this point, I think you are over-valuing LeVert, especially given his contract. I don't think you are going to be able to find a star. Maybe a low level one if you include a bunch of picks and use Allen as a trade chip if the receiving team is motivated. I still think Holiday is your best shot, but Barton is coming off an outstanding year whereas Holiday is coming off a down year.

My valuation of LeVert is based off of his potential, which I and many others believe to be at the level of a third star on a championship team. If you don’t believe then yes I am overvaluing him. However, I think the Nets valuation of him is closer to mine than yours and I imagine there are many other teams around the league that would agree. Either way no team in their right mind is gonna sell low on a wing with guard skills.

Stars will become available between now and the 2021 Off Season. All it takes is one impending UFA to say “I want to play with KD/Kyrie in the big city” and suddenly a LeVert, Allen and multiple 1sts package is the best deal on the table.

Maybe so, but I don't see it. I see two problems with this line of thinking when polishing a contender.

1. You are counting on an oft-injured player to go from borderline starter to being a third star on a title contender.
2. You are expecting LeVert to be a major piece in a trade for a star.

Can't think of many players making such a leap, especially in their 5th year.

Maybe it’s far fetched but that doesn’t justify selling low for no reason.

Injuries are no doubt a concern, however there has been a clear pattern:
1.Healthy LeVert shows flashes
2. LeVert gets injured
3. Nets bring back LeVert slowly over a 10-20 game period with both minute and role limitations
3. LeVert gets back into his groove and shows consistent stretch of star level play. We saw it last year in the playoffs against Philly and we saw it in the games before quarantine such as his 51 points against Boston and 27-11-10 against the Spurs.

He’s 6’7 with elite quickness and handle for his size. He has great footwork and passing ability and his 3pt% finally returned to the level he showed in college. He has had many games where he’s looked like a star now it’s about consistency and staying healthy. I want to see him do that on the Nets, not watch him do that for another team while we’re stuck with some role player.

If the value isn’t there in a trade then he won’t be moved. There are ways to improve the team and cut costs that don’t involve him.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Dinwiddie shot the ball at 31% this year compared to Schroder's 38%. When you take into account that Irving is coming back, what is Dinwiddie's role? Schroder would be much better coming off the bench and his fit next to Irving and Durant is better and would be just as good as Dinwiddie (if not better) at running the team than Dinwiddie would in the event that Kyrie got hurt.

There’s no evidence that Schroder can run a team as well as Dinwiddie has and honestly it’s disrespectful to even suggest that considering how vast the statistical gap is on that end.

Dinwiddies role would be as a 6th man. Someone who can run the offense at high level when Kyrie inevitably misses time due to injury. I have no interest in playing the 6’1 Schroder next to Kyrie against any competitive playoff team. 6’5 Dinwiddie? Maybe.

Regarding 3 pt% I’d be very interested to see what they would look like if Dinwiddie got to play off ball next to CP3 and Shroder’s secondary ball handler was Taurean Prince for 20 games.

Schroder was actually shooting 35% on catch and shoot 3s last year. This year he was shooting 42% on catch and shoot 3s, and while Paul is certainly a benefit playing next to, so would be Durant and Irving. I'd say that taking advantage of his opportunities and spacing is a big plus. Schroder is shorter yet still puts up better defensive numbers. Height doesn't have much to do with defensive impact in the NBA. I'd personally rather have Schroder/Irving than Dinwiddie/Irving.

Just a personal preference I suppose but both pairings have merits, I guess. FWIW, I wanted Presti to trade for Dinwiddie 3-4 seasons ago. I was one of the first to see him turning the corner towards the end of the season back in 2015-16 or whenever it was.

I get the personal preference aspect. I for one don’t believe defense at the PG position is nearly as important as offense.

I have nothing against Schroder, I know he’s a quality player. However, I don’t believe in messing with chemistry and making lateral moves at a position of strength.

[getrichordie]

My valuation of LeVert is based off of his potential, which I and many others believe to be at the level of a third star on a championship team. If you don’t believe then yes I am overvaluing him. However, I think the Nets valuation of him is closer to mine than yours and I imagine there are many other teams around the league that would agree. Either way no team in their right mind is gonna sell low on a wing with guard skills.

Stars will become available between now and the 2021 Off Season. All it takes is one impending UFA to say “I want to play with KD/Kyrie in the big city” and suddenly a LeVert, Allen and multiple 1sts package is the best deal on the table.

Maybe so, but I don't see it. I see two problems with this line of thinking when polishing a contender.

1. You are counting on an oft-injured player to go from borderline starter to being a third star on a title contender.
2. You are expecting LeVert to be a major piece in a trade for a star.

Can't think of many players making such a leap, especially in their 5th year.

Maybe it’s far fetched but that doesn’t justify selling low for no reason.

Injuries are no doubt a concern, however there has been a clear pattern:
1.Healthy LeVert shows flashes
2. LeVert gets injured
3. Nets bring back LeVert slowly over a period 10-20 with both minute and role limitations
3. LeVert gets back into his groove and shows consistent stretch of star level play. We saw it last year in the playoffs against Philly and we saw it in the games before quarantine such as his 51 points against Boston and 27-11-10 against the Spurs.

He’s 6’7 with elite quickness and handle for his size. He has great footwork and passing ability and his 3pt% finally returned to the level he showed in college. He has had many games where he’s looked like a star now it’s about consistency and staying healthy. I want to see him do that on the Nets, not watch him do that for another team while we’re stuck with some role player.

If the value isn’t there in a trade then he won’t be moved. There are ways to improve the team and cut costs that don’t involve him.

The triple double was impressive, no doubt, however he was being guarded by Derrick White most of the time.

Didn't see the Philly run. But my counter argument would be that every dog has its day.

But I do agree that his flashes are strong and will probably be enough to be attractive to a team willing to take a gamble.

Another point that hasn't been brought up is the fact that if LeVert does make the leap, you are looking at your 3 core players having major injury concerns.

[HartfordWhalers]

Do you have stats to back up your claim that Prince is a bad defender?

I ask because the Nets were a top 10 defensive team according to DRTG and Prince was the only forward on the team who played consistent minutes.

Are you saying that they were a good defensive team in spite of him? That guys like Joe Harris and TLC were so good that they were able to carry him on that end?

There is plenty of evidence he is bad at defense...

Rpm views him as trash.
Prince was 80th of 95 pf's in drpm.
Last year he was 74th (sf's) of 75.

Watching him he shows why. He played zone in college and has been awful on and off ball in the NBA, often losing his man so his man gets an easy close look. The numbers reflect this eye test. The Nets were (slightly) better defensively without him on the court, and opponents lit him up when within 10 feet of the hoop (63% dfg%), as they have previously {64.3% last year for instance}. The one number that looks god for him is opponents missed a bunch of 3's when he played, which hadn't been true previously and looks a lot more like the case of a few lucky (or unlucky) bounces.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Do you have stats to back up your claim that Prince is a bad defender?

I ask because the Nets were a top 10 defensive team according to DRTG and Prince was the only forward on the team who played consistent minutes.

Are you saying that they were a good defensive team in spite of him? That guys like Joe Harris and TLC were so good that they were able to carry him on that end?

There is plenty of evidence he is bad at defense...

Rpm views him as trash.
Prince was 80th of 95 pf's in drpm.
Last year he was 74th (sf's) of 75.

Watching him he shows why. He played zone in college and has been awful on and off ball in the NBA, often losing his man so his man gets an easy close look. The numbers reflect this eye test. The Nets were (slightly) better defensively without him on the court, and opponents lit him up when within 10 feet of the hoop (63% dfg%), as they have previously {64.3% last year for instance}. The one number that looks god for him is opponents missed a bunch of 3's when he played, which hadn't been true previously and looks a lot more like the case of a few lucky (or unlucky) bounces.

Hard to argue with that.

It’s interesting the DRPM has him so low but other stats have him as a positive. Also interesting how they were able to maintain such a good defense with him having such a low DRPM considering he played 30 MPG.

[TheBrooklynKidd]

Maybe so, but I don't see it. I see two problems with this line of thinking when polishing a contender.

1. You are counting on an oft-injured player to go from borderline starter to being a third star on a title contender.
2. You are expecting LeVert to be a major piece in a trade for a star.

Can't think of many players making such a leap, especially in their 5th year.

Maybe it’s far fetched but that doesn’t justify selling low for no reason.

Injuries are no doubt a concern, however there has been a clear pattern:
1.Healthy LeVert shows flashes
2. LeVert gets injured
3. Nets bring back LeVert slowly over a period 10-20 with both minute and role limitations
3. LeVert gets back into his groove and shows consistent stretch of star level play. We saw it last year in the playoffs against Philly and we saw it in the games before quarantine such as his 51 points against Boston and 27-11-10 against the Spurs.

He’s 6’7 with elite quickness and handle for his size. He has great footwork and passing ability and his 3pt% finally returned to the level he showed in college. He has had many games where he’s looked like a star now it’s about consistency and staying healthy. I want to see him do that on the Nets, not watch him do that for another team while we’re stuck with some role player.

If the value isn’t there in a trade then he won’t be moved. There are ways to improve the team and cut costs that don’t involve him.

The triple double was impressive, no doubt, however he was being guarded by Derrick White most of the time.

Didn't see the Philly run. But my counter argument would be that every dog has its day.

But I do agree that his flashes are strong and will probably be enough to be attractive to a team willing to take a gamble.

Another point that hasn't been brought up is the fact that if LeVert does make the leap, you are looking at your 3 core players having major injury concerns.

So you see why I find it impossible to justify trading LeVert for a guy like Will Barton.

Injuries are definitely a concern with this team as a whole but really they’re a constant threat to every team. To win a championship you need a lot of luck, injury luck included. I’d be willing to move LeVert for a more stable player but it has to be the right fit and make the team objectively better.

[tobysunsfan]

They should trade Kyrie, both LeVert and Dinwiddie don't work him. But of course Kyrie won't be traded, and LeVert and Dinwiddie will suffer basketball wise and probably be traded.

[Mamba4Goat]

1 ) Hire Ty Lye
Kept Kyrie relatively sane in Cleveland.
2.) Focus aggressively on defense first, shooting second. Kyrie/KD/Dinwiddie can make the offense go enough, even if you make them play 4.5 on 5. KD is likely hurting the most on defense when he comes back though, Kyrie isn't good there, and neither are half of their wings/forwards. The solution? Something around Gary Harris for Caris Levert. Denver needs shooting/scoring, the Nets need defense. Both guys could probably use a change of scenery too. (Or at least Levert will need one once everyone's healthy).
Next, try to get Jae Crowder for the MLE. Resign Harris and call it good.

Kyrie/Dinwiddie
G. Harris/J. Harris
KD/Temple
Crowder/Prince
DJ/Allen

[TheNetsFan]

Most of the roster is locked in. The super-friends (KD, Kyrie, Jordan, Temple) will not split up before playing all together. Nobody would be surprised if KD finishes his career elsewhere, so you go all-in for a sure thing or a young high potential player, but you don't sacrifice all young potential for a modest short-term upgrade, especially if it's an older player. Maintaining depth behind the vets (especially Kyrie & DJ) is a must.

1) Don't worry about bigs. Allen & DJ are a top 10-ish Center rotation and more than adequate. The majority of KD's minutes will be at PF. You can easily get by with Prince, Kurucs or Claxton (if he develops) taking the backup PF minutes. If they want a veteran big, I can see a guy like Milsap on the cheap.
2) The Nets need to find their version of Iguodola. A guy that can take the toughest perimeter assignment & initiate some offense when KD & Kyrie are out. Ideally, that's one guy, but not many fit the bill. Jrue would be perfect if he was bigger and less injury prone. Essentially, everything LeVert flashes, but with fewer injuries & more consistency. If you can't get that in one player, it may have to come in teh form of 2 specialists.
3) Maintain a starting caliber PG behind Kyrie due to his injury history. Dinwiddie fits the bill, but he may also be in line for a big raise in 21-22 season. Pre COVID, analysts were predicting he would double his salary which may become cost-prohibitive for the Nets.
4) Resign Joe.

I think the main package that gets shopped is Dinwiddie+picks+expendable young guys+salary filler. LeVert+Dinwiddie package only happens if it's for an all-star caliber player. If the Nets can get Jrue for a Dinwiddie+Prince+picks package they'd pull the trigger. If they can't the Iggy caliber player, then I'd try to make a play for for the 3&D+PG combo Like Rubio+Bridges.

[getrichordie]

Richardson + Smith + #22 for LeVert?

[HartfordWhalers]

Richardson + Smith + #22 for LeVert?

Seems a bad move for Philly to get a worse player that costs more, and pay a pick for the privilege.

[getrichordie]

Richardson + Smith + #22 for LeVert?

Seems a bad move for Philly to get a worse player that costs more, and pay a pick for the privilege.

Some seem to think Levert is going to be a star next year. If some GMs believe that as well, I'd say it's a fair package for a potential star given LeVert's injury history.

[Trader_Joe]

Richardson + Smith + #22 for LeVert?

Seems a bad move for Philly to get a worse player that costs more, and pay a pick for the privilege.

Some seem to think Levert is going to be a star next year. If some GMs believe that as well, I'd say it's a fair package for a potential star given LeVert's injury history.

Not worth it for Philly.
They have the talent and pieces and want proven commodities. Embiid and Simmons will determine how far they go. And adding a player that takes the ball away from either is probably not a good idea. Brooklyn would do this deal, IMO. I would. But, I am also fine taking the chance on LeVert. In his 4 seasons he's shown about 50 games of all star talent or production. He's missed a ton of time and come back poorly most times. If anything I think he can be our best perimter defender as he has the length and tools. He's not the quickest guy, but he's deceptively crafty on D with his long arms. If his 3 stays respectable, esp off catch and shoot, he'd be invaluable to the team.

[HartfordWhalers]

Richardson + Smith + #22 for LeVert?

Seems a bad move for Philly to get a worse player that costs more, and pay a pick for the privilege.

Some seem to think Levert is going to be a star next year. If some GMs believe that as well, I'd say it's a fair package for a potential star given LeVert's injury history.

I would question how widespread that belief is, particularly in geographical dispersion. But if LeVert is valued as a budding superstar elsewhere, then it would probably be best for a third team to be included as the buyer of him at that price.

[TPV]

Richardson + Smith + #22 for LeVert?

Seems a bad move for Philly to get a worse player that costs more, and pay a pick for the privilege.

Some seem to think Levert is going to be a star next year. If some GMs believe that as well, I'd say it's a fair package for a potential star given LeVert's injury history.

Richardson would be an amazing fit for the Nets. He can do a little bit of everything on offense without having any real weaknesses. Plus he's just right below the All-NBA level perimeter players on defense IMO. That skillset is worth a lot more than LeVert on the Nets (and most teams really).

Perhaps Philly could use LeVert's shot creation, but subbing him in for Richardson is basically shuffling deck chairs. And Philly also needs to be mindful of how much long-term salary they are taking on in that swap.

[getrichordie]

Seems a bad move for Philly to get a worse player that costs more, and pay a pick for the privilege.

Some seem to think Levert is going to be a star next year. If some GMs believe that as well, I'd say it's a fair package for a potential star given LeVert's injury history.

I would question how widespread that belief is, particularly in geographical dispersion. But if LeVert is valued as a budding superstar elsewhere, then it would probably be best for a third team to be included as the buyer of him at that price.

Why do you say it’s better for a third team to be the buyer? You don’t think LeVert in Philly has its merits? And if you are suggesting a third team, who and why?