2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[WargamesX]

Conspiracy theory: They released the virus so that they could finally rig the lottery for Knicks again behind closed doors

Makes sense....

[knickstape4ever]

Conspiracy theory: They released the virus so that they could finally rig the lottery for Knicks again behind closed doors

Makes sense....

it crossed my mind; if the lottery is rigged, now would be a good time to give us a top 2 pick seeing as NY has been hit hardest by covid-19

[robillionaire]

Conspiracy theory: They released the virus so that they could finally rig the lottery for Knicks again behind closed doors

Well my heart goes out to those who had to make the ultimate sacrifice but it’s like they say, you can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. Now let’s get our PG

[WargamesX]

Welp the college/draft thread is getting dark.....

[Deeeez Knicks]

If we are picking 6 to 10, I am cool with Cole. He could easily be the best option there. There is risk, but he has potential if he could fix some of his issues. His game/style should fit much better in the NBA. I am buying the shot.

[jvsimonetti0514]

copyrighting haliburtkina right now for the rest of the draft process.

If it was 2006 Obi would be a great draft pick. There were a lot of stretch 4’s that weren’t great defenders. The nba just took that idea one step further and put a wing there now instead. He probably ends up more like Bobby Portis instead of Amare. I feel bad for him though, he really could have rose his stock in the NCAA tourney. If he was that good Dayton would have made a run and you could see match up against some power conference teams instead of the scrubby ones in the A10.

A10 slander will not be tolerated in this thread

My cousin actually went to Dayton. Which one did you go too?

[knickstape21]

If we are picking 6 to 10, I am cool with Cole. He could easily be the best option there. There is risk, but he has potential if he could fix some of his issues. His game/style should fit much better in the NBA. I am buying the shot.

Thoughts on Precious Achiuwa? Think he’s being criminally underrated in terms of potential and want to start a discussion about him. Smart kid, versatile, NBA ready body, etc.

[Deeeez Knicks]

If we are picking 6 to 10, I am cool with Cole. He could easily be the best option there. There is risk, but he has potential if he could fix some of his issues. His game/style should fit much better in the NBA. I am buying the shot.

Thoughts on Precious Achiuwa? Think he’s being criminally underrated in terms of potential and want to start a discussion about him. Smart kid, versatile, NBA ready body, etc.

I do like his potential a lot. Needs to work on some things, and he seems like he is more high risk, high reward. I would probably have him around 11-15 range, or something like that. He is one of those guys that if he pans out could end up being a top 5 player in the draft though.

[spree8]

If we are picking 6 to 10, I am cool with Cole. He could easily be the best option there. There is risk, but he has potential if he could fix some of his issues. His game/style should fit much better in the NBA. I am buying the shot.

I think dude could end up being a Kemba type. I’m absolutely good with him.

[HarthorneWingo]

No playoffs should mean equally lottery odds for all 30 teams.
Enjoy the 10th pick

if they do the playoffs using the frozen seedings, it would be a great time to trial a lottery tournament also using the frozen seedings

I’ve been pushing for that since I heard Evan Roberts discuss it with Benigno on WFAN.

[mpharris36]

No playoffs should mean equally lottery odds for all 30 teams.
Enjoy the 10th pick

if they do the playoffs using the frozen seedings, it would be a great time to trial a lottery tournament also using the frozen seedings

I’ve been pushing for that since I heard Evan Roberts discuss it with Benigno on WFAN.

that won't work because you will teams with one or two really good players if they are playing for the 8th seed possibly intentionally lose out or be held out to want to miss the playoffs to get into the lottery tournament.

You would have teams potentially wanting to miss out on the playoffs for a chance to destory the real bad teams in the lottery tournament.

You would go from the worst teams trying to lose (which at least is understandable) to teams that actually have a good enough chance at making the playoffs to intentionally lose. That would be even worse.

Then what about the guys on expiring contracts? Why would they play and risk injury for the benefit of the team in the future when they don't have a signed contract for next year?

[knickstape21]

If we are picking 6 to 10, I am cool with Cole. He could easily be the best option there. There is risk, but he has potential if he could fix some of his issues. His game/style should fit much better in the NBA. I am buying the shot.

Thoughts on Precious Achiuwa? Think he’s being criminally underrated in terms of potential and want to start a discussion about him. Smart kid, versatile, NBA ready body, etc.

I do like his potential a lot. Needs to work on some things, and he seems like he is more high risk, high reward. I would probably have him around 11-15 range, or something like that. He is one of those guys that if he pans out could end up being a top 5 player in the draft though.

His transition to Memphis was interesting to me. Seems like he played that stretch forward in HS/AAU and made the move over to athletic stretch big.

Love that type of versatile big. Like the Jon Isaac/Siakam type that’s trending today.

High risk/High reward for sure. He has a lot of learning to do.

[3toheadmelo]

Achiuwa and Wiseman was something I was looking forward to watching. NCAA sucks

[RHODEY]

If we are picking 6 to 10, I am cool with Cole. He could easily be the best option there. There is risk, but he has potential if he could fix some of his issues. His game/style should fit much better in the NBA. I am buying the shot.

[moocow007]

If we are picking 6 to 10, I am cool with Cole. He could easily be the best option there. There is risk, but he has potential if he could fix some of his issues. His game/style should fit much better in the NBA. I am buying the shot.

Thoughts on Precious Achiuwa? Think he’s being criminally underrated in terms of potential and want to start a discussion about him. Smart kid, versatile, NBA ready body, etc.

My "issue" with Achiuwa is that I don't see his NBA projection to be anything more than a role player along the line of a high energy combo forward that can maybe shoot a little.

I've included clips of 2 games where he put up 20+ points (one against UGA and one against Memphis). If you were just looking at the stats you may assume that Achiuwa had very good scoring ability right? 20+ points against major college programs that have big name players of their own and have systems more akin to what you'd find in the NBA. But if you actually watch the clips you'll see that A LOT of Achiuwa's points were off of him rolling to the basket for wide open dunks or based off of putbacks.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Dunks are dunks and pretty much every single high end college basketball player can dunk if you get him the ball on the move and he faces relatively little resistance.

What I look at his what he looks like when he actually has to work to get a basket. You also want to look and see how me moves on the court, how fluid he is, how his shot looks (not just from 3 but also midrange jumpers and a few feet from the basket). IMO he's kinda mechanical offensively. Yes, he's quick up and down the floor, yes, he has good hops...so he has no problems dunking or finishing. But when he has to make a move with the ball in his hand or when he takes a jumper, it just looks real odd and unnatural...choppy maybe is a good word? blocky?

I just do not see him being able to actually create any shots for himself in the NBA. He's got really sloppy handles where it just doesn't seem like he has good ball control. That's going to be killer against NBA caliber defenders. His shot also looks slow and low with a weird mechanical form. I doubt he'll be able to consistently get that shot up.

Defensively I'm not sure if he's a PF or a SF. He doesn't have the greatest fluidity or lateral quickness (there's a big difference between lateral quickness, which is kinda the bedrock of strong defenders, and explosive straight line speed, typical of good dunkers and finishers). He may not have the size to defend the post. So what does that leave? A high energy guy that can block some shots, grab some boards and finish? That's a role player. And no before anyone brings up Mitch Robinson if Robinson was 4 or 5 inches shorter and had less lateral quickness he'd not be worth as much as he is at 7'1" with great lateral quickness.

I know folks may be trying to find the next Siakam or looking for a prospect that can turn into a Paul George or even Kawhi Leonard type. But if you actually go watch these guys play in college ball you will actually see nuances about their ability to handle the ball, the form on their shots, their fluidity, their lateral quickness, their natural feel for the game (there's a big difference between intensity and feel...great role players have great intensity, the top players have the intensity and natural feel for the game), etc. that Achiuwa simply does not have.

He's got a nice frame and he jumps and he's kinda got pogo stick legs. He plays hard without question and will give you his all when he's on the court. But I don't see enough basketball skills that will allow him to, at the NBA level, be anything more than a high energy bench guy. Being very honest here. I think that is why he's projected usually as a mid 1st round pick (a lot of whom are projected as quality role players) and not lottery. I would not pick him in the top 10, no way. Again, I don't see anything close to being next potential (not guarantee) Siakam or the next Kawhi to be taking what I would consider a flyer (or a gamble) on him in the top 10 (no way in hell at 6). He is a mid round pick to me. Something in the 15-22 range. I do not see a high ceiling guy. I see a high floor guy with the floor being a quality rotational role player. Nothing wrong with that, but that's not what the Knicks need to be coming out of this draft with with their top pick.

[HarthorneWingo]

if they do the playoffs using the frozen seedings, it would be a great time to trial a lottery tournament also using the frozen seedings

I’ve been pushing for that since I heard Evan Roberts discuss it with Benigno on WFAN.

that won't work because you will teams with one or two really good players if they are playing for the 8th seed possibly intentionally lose out or be held out to want to miss the playoffs to get into the lottery tournament.

You would have teams potentially wanting to miss out on the playoffs for a chance to destory the real bad teams in the lottery tournament.

You would go from the worst teams trying to lose (which at least is understandable) to teams that actually have a good enough chance at making the playoffs to intentionally lose. That would be even worse.

Then what about the guys on expiring contracts? Why would they play and risk injury for the benefit of the team in the future when they don't have a signed contract for next year?

Noooooo, the winner gets the no.1 pick. It forces teams to continue to attempt to improve during the season.

[mpharris36]

I’ve been pushing for that since I heard Evan Roberts discuss it with Benigno on WFAN.

that won't work because you will teams with one or two really good players if they are playing for the 8th seed possibly intentionally lose out or be held out to want to miss the playoffs to get into the lottery tournament.

You would have teams potentially wanting to miss out on the playoffs for a chance to destory the real bad teams in the lottery tournament.

You would go from the worst teams trying to lose (which at least is understandable) to teams that actually have a good enough chance at making the playoffs to intentionally lose. That would be even worse.

Then what about the guys on expiring contracts? Why would they play and risk injury for the benefit of the team in the future when they don't have a signed contract for next year?

Noooooo, the winner gets the no.1 pick. It forces teams to continue to attempt to improve during the season.

'[

I'm well aware of what you are suggesting I am telling you it would never work. The teams that lose out of the playoffs like for example Portland could be a 40 something win team and Lillard could go off and get the #1 pick in the draft by winning the tourny.

Look at the logic with a week to go in the regular season. Sneak into the playoffs as an 8th seed and get swept in the 1st round by a dominant #1 seed. Or sit out my best players with one week to go lose out. Get into the Lottery Tournament then win the tourny and get the #1 pick.

Also what is the incentive for teams with expiring contracts to play and win the tourny? They would risk future injury for what?

[moocow007]

If we go by this we could pull Nesmith, Jamhius Ramsey and Cassius Stanley at 6, 27 & 37. Sign CP (not giving up draft picks except 2nd rounders in future) and we'd have 1 (CP & Frank), 2 (Ramsey, Stanley), 3 (Nesmith; RJ); and 5 (Mitch) with next years big laden draft to snag a 4 or two. That looks potentially solid across the board.

The Knicks would be absolutely insane to take Nesmith 6. Can we stop with the over inflated emphasis on 3 point shooting?

3 point shooting emphasis is fine, when it's for role players and guys down lower in the draft.

And that sir is my point. Folks may have missed the part where I was specifically responding to the OP who had Nesmith being the 6th overall pick. To take Nesmith 6th overall would ABSOLUTELY be over inflating the emphasis on 3 point shooting. The Knicks need someone that can take their bottom of the barrel **** ass inefficient offense and make it better not a guy that can shoot spot up 3's. Spot up 3's is not going to make the Knicks 28th ranked offensive efficiency better. A 3 point shooter is not going to prevent the Knicks from having to rely on RJ Barrett to be a POINT SG or Julius Randle from having to be Lebron James in trying to create offense for himself and others on a crap team (neither of which either guy has any business being) or prevent a team that still looks like it's totally lost on offense. The Knicks need a shot creator, someone that can run and offense and create easy shot opportunities for himself and others. Failing that, the Knicks need someone that can be a no.1 option that can create his own shot easily (something that RJ Barrett and Julius Randle...and pretty much every single Knick...struggled with mightily last season). When the guy that can best create his own shot is a 2nd rounder from the previous seasons draft that you barely play, it's pretty clear what they need (the only guy that I would trust in being able to create his own shot in crunch time on this team is ISO Zo...and that's not a good thing).

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

Melo why are you bothering Begley with questions you already know the answer too!

[moocow007]

Read on Twitter

Melo why are you bothering Begley with questions you already know the answer too!

I was just about to post the same thing.