I Still Know What They Should Do This Summer Brooklyn Nets

[TPV]

The Nets need to maximize their window now. They've committed to Irving and Durant, and who knows how many years they'll have with them given the state of stars moving teams and their injury histories. That means going into the luxury tax, and possibly taking on bad deals if it meaningfully improves the team. There's three things player-wise I think they need to hit on.

First, I'd re-sign Joe Harris. (Now if he manages to get over $17m AAV in free agency, I'd think long and hard about it, though would probably bite the bullet).

Second, I'd really explore the market on moving one or both of LeVert and Prince. Those two are the most tradeable players on the team that could get value back that I think Brooklyn should be willing to part with. (I'm assuming Irving wanted to play with Dinwiddie, and if they trade Allen, they need a center back). LeVert's talents have diminishing returns given Irving and Durant's scoring, and some team may find him useful. They really need to upgrade from Prince because he wasn't starting quality at all, and I wouldn't trust him to turn it around even with a healthy Durant back. If they can pull the trigger for Jrue Holiday or Aaron Gordon through parting with those combination of players/picks, they should do it. If there's no deal - you ride it out with the current team.

(Sidenote: What if they swapped LeVert + Prince + Nicolas Claxton for Kevin Love + Kevin Porter Jr.? It doesn't solve the issues on defense, but I think Love can raise the ceiling of the team next year).

Third, I'd use the full taxpayer MLE to bring in someone like Torrey Craig or Derrick Jones Jr. Basically an athletic defender who won't kill you on offense.

[HartfordWhalers]

Some seem to think Levert is going to be a star next year. If some GMs believe that as well, I'd say it's a fair package for a potential star given LeVert's injury history.

I would question how widespread that belief is, particularly in geographical dispersion. But if LeVert is valued as a budding superstar elsewhere, then it would probably be best for a third team to be included as the buyer of him at that price.

Why do you say it’s better for a third team to be the buyer? You don’t think LeVert in Philly has its merits? And if you are suggesting a third team, who and why?

I'm not really sure what isn't clear. You are suggesting Philly should give up a pick, to get a worse player who costs more because somewhere someone thinks that player is a budding superstar. I'm saying, if that is so, including that team might help. Because as is, Philly is trading a pick to get a worse and more expensive player, which seems a no to me.

What would OKC give up for a budding superstar LeVert if Philly could flip him to them?

[getrichordie]

I would question how widespread that belief is, particularly in geographical dispersion. But if LeVert is valued as a budding superstar elsewhere, then it would probably be best for a third team to be included as the buyer of him at that price.

Why do you say it’s better for a third team to be the buyer? You don’t think LeVert in Philly has its merits? And if you are suggesting a third team, who and why?

I'm not really sure what isn't clear. You are suggesting Philly should give up a pick, to get a worse player who costs more because somewhere someone thinks that player is a budding superstar. I'm saying, if that is so, including that team might help. Because as is, Philly is trading a pick to get a worse and more expensive player, which seems a no to me.

What would OKC give up for a budding superstar LeVert if Philly could flip him to them?

Giving up Richardson who isn't that much more attractive (if he is more attractive) as a player to Philly, IMO, is a small price to pay for LeVert's perceived ceiling. I think if you ask most people, whether Philly would rather have LeVert for 3 years or Richardson for 2, I would wager that Philly fans would rather have LeVert, cost be damned. Maybe BKN should attach a little more value in some form, and that's fair, but I think you are over-valuing Richardson a bit.

[bondom34]

If Brooklyn wanted Richardson (not sure they do), Dinwiddie would be the sensible route for Philly, LeVert I don't see with that value. I'd prefer Richardson as a player, but don't think BKN does it because of the Durant/Irving relationship anyway, and for Philly would want a little compensation there.

[HartfordWhalers]

Why do you say it’s better for a third team to be the buyer? You don’t think LeVert in Philly has its merits? And if you are suggesting a third team, who and why?

I'm not really sure what isn't clear. You are suggesting Philly should give up a pick, to get a worse player who costs more because somewhere someone thinks that player is a budding superstar. I'm saying, if that is so, including that team might help. Because as is, Philly is trading a pick to get a worse and more expensive player, which seems a no to me.

What would OKC give up for a budding superstar LeVert if Philly could flip him to them?

Giving up Richardson who isn't that much more attractive (if he is more attractive) as a player to Philly, IMO, is a small price to pay for LeVert's perceived ceiling. I think if you ask most people, whether Philly would rather have LeVert for 3 years or Richardson for 2, I would wager that Philly fans would rather have LeVert, cost be damned. Maybe BKN should attach a little more value in some form, and that's fair, but I think you are over-valuing Richardson a bit.

I think I see the issue.

I have asked where would value LeVert like you are, as he doesn’t have that much value as far as I can tell. And certainly shouldn’t to Philly. And instead of finding some third team that would give up what you see LeVert worth, you instead keep coming back to Philly paying a price that doesn’t make sense.

[getrichordie]

I'm not really sure what isn't clear. You are suggesting Philly should give up a pick, to get a worse player who costs more because somewhere someone thinks that player is a budding superstar. I'm saying, if that is so, including that team might help. Because as is, Philly is trading a pick to get a worse and more expensive player, which seems a no to me.

What would OKC give up for a budding superstar LeVert if Philly could flip him to them?

Giving up Richardson who isn't that much more attractive (if he is more attractive) as a player to Philly, IMO, is a small price to pay for LeVert's perceived ceiling. I think if you ask most people, whether Philly would rather have LeVert for 3 years or Richardson for 2, I would wager that Philly fans would rather have LeVert, cost be damned. Maybe BKN should attach a little more value in some form, and that's fair, but I think you are over-valuing Richardson a bit.

I think I see the issue.

I have asked where would value LeVert like you are, as he doesn’t have that much value as far as I can tell. And certainly shouldn’t to Philly. And instead of finding some third team that would give up what you see LeVert worth, you instead keep coming back to Philly paying a price that doesn’t make sense.

I asked you where first... and you didn’t give me a destination.

The discussion is what is LeVert’s star potential value compared to Richardson’s current level of play (where he is benefitting from playing alongside 4 all-star talents.)

If you believe LeVert can be a star is the difference #22 and Zhaire? Probably something close...

As for OKC, I’d imagine Presti would be willing to give up a fair amount because good wings have been hard to find for us. Something centered around S&T of Gallinari makes some sense. If that’s not appetizing for BKN, I’d say value wise Schroder + Diallo + one of our many firsts is a starting point but I don’t think that package would interest BKN so a third team would need to be involved as well.

[bondom34]

I'll be honest I don't see either of those OKC packages as remotely as valuable via trade as Richardson.

Also given Levert's history I can't see him having nearly the value to get Richardson.

[getrichordie]

I'll be honest I don't see either of those OKC packages as remotely as valuable via trade as Richardson.

Also given Levert's history I can't see him having nearly the value to get Richardson.

So you would trade Schroder + Diallo + a FRP for Richardson?

[bondom34]

I'll be honest I don't see either of those OKC packages as remotely as valuable via trade as Richardson.

Also given Levert's history I can't see him having nearly the value to get Richardson.

So you would trade Schroder + Diallo + a FRP for Richardson?

No, because OKC should be rebuilding.

Edit: Value wise I don't love it for Philly.

[getrichordie]

I'll be honest I don't see either of those OKC packages as remotely as valuable via trade as Richardson.

Also given Levert's history I can't see him having nearly the value to get Richardson.

So you would trade Schroder + Diallo + a FRP for Richardson?

No, because OKC should be rebuilding.

Edit: Value wise I don't love it for Philly.

In a vacuum, I think that value is a little more than fair but I seem to be lower on Richardson than most, but that’s why I suggested a 3rd team.

[bondom34]

So you would trade Schroder + Diallo + a FRP for Richardson?

No, because OKC should be rebuilding.

Edit: Value wise I don't love it for Philly.

In a vacuum, I think that value is a little more than fair but I seem to be lower on Richardson than most, but that’s why I suggested a 3rd team.

Diallo is basically filler, Schroeder is an iffy contract maybe worth a second. So to me it's a first for Richardson and taking salary. And I'm not sure why the Sixers are downgrading talent for future assets right now.

[getrichordie]

No, because OKC should be rebuilding.

Edit: Value wise I don't love it for Philly.

In a vacuum, I think that value is a little more than fair but I seem to be lower on Richardson than most, but that’s why I suggested a 3rd team.

Diallo is basically filler, Schroeder is an iffy contract maybe worth a second. So to me it's a first for Richardson and taking salary. And I'm not sure why the Sixers are downgrading talent for future assets right now.

I don't think they should be. I see Richardson + Z. Smith + FRP as consolidating assets for a player that could potentially be a star in the eyes of some.

As far as the Schroder + Diallo stuff goes, I'm just stating as to what I think would be fair value, in a vacuum, for LeVert. I don't think it is a great fit, but for OKC, I think it is practically the best they can do value-wise. The guy asked me what would OKC give up, and I think that would be the options. Never said they were great fits.

FWIW,

Richardson

VORP = 0.1
OBPM = -1.5
DBPM = -0.2
OWS = 0.3
DWS = 1.6
TS% = 52.6
PIPM = -0.47
DRPM = 0.42
ORPM = -1.32

Schroder

VORP = 1.0
OBPM = 1.1
DBPM = -1.2
OWS = 1.9
DWS = 1.6
TS% = 57.3
PIPM = 0.40
DRPM = 0.99
ORPM = 2.11

[bondom34]

In a vacuum, I think that value is a little more than fair but I seem to be lower on Richardson than most, but that’s why I suggested a 3rd team.

Diallo is basically filler, Schroeder is an iffy contract maybe worth a second. So to me it's a first for Richardson and taking salary. And I'm not sure why the Sixers are downgrading talent for future assets right now.

I don't think they should be. I see Richardson + Z. Smith + FRP as consolidating assets for a player that could potentially be a star in the eyes of some.

As far as the Schroder + Diallo stuff goes, I'm just stating as to what I think would be fair value, in a vacuum, for LeVert. I don't think it is a great fit, but for OKC, I think it is practically the best they can do value-wise. The guy asked me what would OKC give up, and I think that would be the options. Never said they were great fits.

A I think I was misunderstanding. I think Richardson/Smith and a pick could get a really good player for sure, and that's probably about the best OKC would be able to do. I'd rate the Sixers package as more value though, and that they'd be targeting different types of players. Levert would make a little sense for OKC, for Philly not as much and they could get better with that.

I was thinking you were trading Schroder to Philly.

I'd rate that Sixers package as more value than either OKC's or Levert (or Dinwiddie). I think the best Philly/BKN deal is Richardson for Dinwiddie plus a small asset, but BKN wouldn't due to the relationship with Durant/Kyrie.

[getrichordie]

Diallo is basically filler, Schroeder is an iffy contract maybe worth a second. So to me it's a first for Richardson and taking salary. And I'm not sure why the Sixers are downgrading talent for future assets right now.

I don't think they should be. I see Richardson + Z. Smith + FRP as consolidating assets for a player that could potentially be a star in the eyes of some.

As far as the Schroder + Diallo stuff goes, I'm just stating as to what I think would be fair value, in a vacuum, for LeVert. I don't think it is a great fit, but for OKC, I think it is practically the best they can do value-wise. The guy asked me what would OKC give up, and I think that would be the options. Never said they were great fits.

A I think I was misunderstanding. I think Richardson/Smith and a pick could get a really good player for sure, and that's probably about the best OKC would be able to do. I'd rate the Sixers package as more value though, and that they'd be targeting different types of players. Levert would make a little sense for OKC, for Philly not as much and they could get better with that.

I was thinking you were trading Schroder to Philly.

I'd rate that Sixers package as more value than either OKC's or Levert (or Dinwiddie). I think the best Philly/BKN deal is Richardson for Dinwiddie plus a small asset, but BKN wouldn't due to the relationship with Durant/Kyrie.

I'd agree. A productive wing on a fair contract, a promising young wing on a rookie contract, and a FRP is hard to beat in terms of value for OKC. I would definitely say that something centered around Richardson for Dinwiddie is a safer trade for PHI, but lacks the same upside the LeVert trade would give them but also gives them a clear upgrade over Milton and a safety net/contingency plan if they choose to trade Simmons in the future.

[bondom34]

I don't think they should be. I see Richardson + Z. Smith + FRP as consolidating assets for a player that could potentially be a star in the eyes of some.

As far as the Schroder + Diallo stuff goes, I'm just stating as to what I think would be fair value, in a vacuum, for LeVert. I don't think it is a great fit, but for OKC, I think it is practically the best they can do value-wise. The guy asked me what would OKC give up, and I think that would be the options. Never said they were great fits.

A I think I was misunderstanding. I think Richardson/Smith and a pick could get a really good player for sure, and that's probably about the best OKC would be able to do. I'd rate the Sixers package as more value though, and that they'd be targeting different types of players. Levert would make a little sense for OKC, for Philly not as much and they could get better with that.

I was thinking you were trading Schroder to Philly.

I'd rate that Sixers package as more value than either OKC's or Levert (or Dinwiddie). I think the best Philly/BKN deal is Richardson for Dinwiddie plus a small asset, but BKN wouldn't due to the relationship with Durant/Kyrie.

I'd agree. A productive wing on a fair contract, a promising young wing on a rookie contract, and a FRP is hard to beat in terms of value for OKC. I would definitely say that something centered around Richardson for Dinwiddie is a safer trade for PHI, but lacks the same upside the LeVert trade would give them but also gives them a clear upgrade over Milton and a safety net/contingency plan if they choose to trade Simmons in the future.

I think I'm just much lower on Levert. He's fine, but he's hurt all the time and has only really shown flashes of being a good player. IMO he's a guy a team like OKC or Orlando or someone looking for a shooter or wing who might break out and can take a risk on a young player could go for, for a contender I'd look for someone who they know is an upgrade. Levert is a downgrade for the Sixers vs Richardson, you're depending on a big leap and staying healthy.

[getrichordie]

A I think I was misunderstanding. I think Richardson/Smith and a pick could get a really good player for sure, and that's probably about the best OKC would be able to do. I'd rate the Sixers package as more value though, and that they'd be targeting different types of players. Levert would make a little sense for OKC, for Philly not as much and they could get better with that.

I was thinking you were trading Schroder to Philly.

I'd rate that Sixers package as more value than either OKC's or Levert (or Dinwiddie). I think the best Philly/BKN deal is Richardson for Dinwiddie plus a small asset, but BKN wouldn't due to the relationship with Durant/Kyrie.

I'd agree. A productive wing on a fair contract, a promising young wing on a rookie contract, and a FRP is hard to beat in terms of value for OKC. I would definitely say that something centered around Richardson for Dinwiddie is a safer trade for PHI, but lacks the same upside the LeVert trade would give them but also gives them a clear upgrade over Milton and a safety net/contingency plan if they choose to trade Simmons in the future.

I think I'm just much lower on Levert. He's fine, but he's hurt all the time and has only really shown flashes of being a good player. IMO he's a guy a team like OKC or Orlando or someone looking for a shooter or wing who might break out and can take a risk on a young player could go for, for a contender I'd look for someone who they know is an upgrade. Levert is a downgrade for the Sixers vs Richardson, you're depending on a big leap and staying healthy.

I agree 100%. I was actually arguing your point about the big leap and health earlier in this thread I believe. I was simply tossing a scenario out there. FWIW, if you isolate all of his injuries, they have a good prognosis, but is still overall somewhat worrisome. So the thought is if he is healthy and things are looking up, you are getting a guy who is capable of being an all-star.

I feel it is important to note that had it not been for some weird thumb injury, I don't think we would be having the same conversation or level of concern about his injuries.

[HartfordWhalers]

I think I see the issue.

I have asked where would value LeVert like you are, as he doesn’t have that much value as far as I can tell. And certainly shouldn’t to Philly. And instead of finding some third team that would give up what you see LeVert worth, you instead keep coming back to Philly paying a price that doesn’t make sense.

I asked you where first... and you didn’t give me a destination.

Wait, you asked me where would value LeVert to a value that I said I don't think he has at all (but apparently you do), and are upset I didn't come up with a place?
I have no idea how strong my coffee will have to be to make sense of this.

[getrichordie]

I think I see the issue.

I have asked where would value LeVert like you are, as he doesn’t have that much value as far as I can tell. And certainly shouldn’t to Philly. And instead of finding some third team that would give up what you see LeVert worth, you instead keep coming back to Philly paying a price that doesn’t make sense.

I asked you where first... and you didn’t give me a destination.

Wait, you asked me where would value LeVert to a value that I said I don't think he has at all (but apparently you do), and are upset I didn't come up with a place?
I have no idea how strong my coffee will have to be to make sense of this.

Bro, I think you need more coffee. Re-read your sentence. It doesn't make any sense.

[HartfordWhalers]

Stab 467 at this.

You have Philly just massively overpaying for LeVert.

I pointed out the overpayment and you said he was worth it.

I asked if you could include a third team then as he is not worth it to Philly....

And since then have been told he is worth it to Philly and it should be up to me to find a third team.

[getrichordie]

Stab 467 at this.

You have Philly just massively overpaying for LeVert.

I pointed out the overpayment and you said he was worth it.

I asked if you could include a third team then as he is not worth it to Philly....

And since then have been told he is worth it to Philly and it should be up to me to find a third team.

You definitely need to re-read the convo from the beginning. I like how you side-stepped your ill-written sentence

Edit: FWIW, I definitely said that *if* a team sees him as a star, that package is worth a potential star and I stand by that. In order of events this is what happened: 1. You said a third team should probably be involved. 2. I asked you who that team would be and why. The rest is history.