ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion

[lazybatman]

IMO trading away some young prospects in order to get a player like AD is always a no brainer. In order to win a championship, you have to do what you gotta do.

Ultimately, the Lakers' front office decided to "send them away," not King James. The front office always has the final say with regard to situations like that.

Nah man.. Every wrong trade is made by Lebron. The fact that Magic/Lakers FO couldn't prevent the leaks is also on Lebron.

So by the same logic, are we blaming MJ for breaking up the Bulls in '98.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Ohh so its just a coincidence that a star player of a other team wants out and just hired lebrons friend as agent and only wants to go the lakers

And kraus said that Phil wasent coming back so its Jordans fault that the bulls broke up? Why should a guy who won 6 titles in 8 years be fired? Did you see Alex Ferguson be fired by Man utd because the gm of united wanted to get more recognition for all the titles

Calm down.. It's called 'sarcasm'.. aimed at the obvious hate on Lebron for all the media leaks & and the PR nightmare. Magic / Lakers f*cked it up, not Lebron. There's nothing wrong with the transfer though, is there?

Lebron's the only reason the Lakers aren't extending their 6 year worst record in the league streak / AD joined the Lakers / Lakers sit atop of the Western Conference. But through your eyes, I'm sure you can find reasons why the Lakers FO did all that and Lebron's getting too much credit. Can you be sure this team even gets to the playoffs, without Lebron, as currently constituted?

Imagine the Bulls botching up the Oakley trade with a similar PR nightmare and Mike being in the middle of a social media storm cos Kraus screwed up. Or, closer to your example, imagine blaming Paul Pogba / DeGea / Rashford for all the transfers Woodward and Glazers have botched up over the last 8-10 years. Make any sense.

Maybe Krauss is a little more receptive if he receives a little gratitude for the work he's done, rather than constant insulting and mockery, even 22 years later, when he's dead. Kraus wasn't Buddha, and he eventually had enough I guess. Bad decision no doubt.

[jg77]

I've always worn his shoes and always considered him the GOAT but never actually watched him play. I'm on episode 3 of this documentary and I'm just amazed by Jordan...this doc really puts everything in perspective.

[twyzted]

Nah man.. Every wrong trade is made by Lebron. The fact that Magic/Lakers FO couldn't prevent the leaks is also on Lebron.

So by the same logic, are we blaming MJ for breaking up the Bulls in '98.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Ohh so its just a coincidence that a star player of a other team wants out and just hired lebrons friend as agent and only wants to go the lakers

And kraus said that Phil wasent coming back so its Jordans fault that the bulls broke up? Why should a guy who won 6 titles in 8 years be fired? Did you see Alex Ferguson be fired by Man utd because the gm of united wanted to get more recognition for all the titles

in 2003 alex ferguson was threatened with dismissal with 6 titles in the last 8 years, Mourinho was let go by Chelsea twice with a combined 3 out of 6 and more, ranieri was fired after Leicester city won in a miracle, del bosque was sacked with 2 la liga and 2 champions leagues in 4 years, hitzfield was sacked with 4 titles in 6 years and a champions league (unlucky not to have 2), Churchill was sacked after winning world war 2 and worst of all Rodzilla was sacked in football manager by Tottenham after winning 3 titles

Mourinho was fired from chelsea after poor starts. Ranieri same for him.
Del bosque was very weird but the board thought he was not the right coach for the future.
Hitzfield after getting 2nd in the league, last 16 in cl, knocked out cup by a 2nd bundesliga team that is unexceptable for bayern and any coach would have been fired for it.

Also its a bit different in european football where teams must get cl or el just to get enough money to run the club not like in nba where teams share the revenue

But the sacking of rodzilla was by far the worst and unbelivable. Worst decision ever imo

[shakes0]

But it’s all relative and Michael would have access to all of those things too if he played in this era. His game was also about so much more than athleticism. It was also about his competitive drive, fundamentals, leadership, mental fortitude and skill all in one package. No doubt Lebron is more of a physical freak but he’s 3-6 in the finals, should be 2-7, and I think Kyrie was more the reason they beat Golden State. I would’ve loved to see how his career unfolded if he played out West his entire career.

I think Jordan would be even better in today’s game because it’s easier to drive to the lane. Less physical and big men are often pulled further out to defend. Jordan was averaging over 30 ppg in an era where the average points scored in a game was far less than it is now.

Players are not "wildly more athletic now", particularly superstars. If there's been a change it's been teams doing a better job finding bench players. Shaq, MJ, etc would still be every bit the athletic freaks they were in their own eras and even more - would get all the benefits of modern training, analytics, etc.

I mean it's just basic biology - humans are not getting more athletic over time (although a larger population means you have a slightly better chance of finding freak outliers I suppose(

Fellows,
Is it a certainty that MJ goes 6/6 if he doesn't get drafted by Jerry Krauss @ no.3 in 1984?

stopped reading as soon as I read this glaring innacuracy in the very first statement.

[twyzted]

Nah man.. Every wrong trade is made by Lebron. The fact that Magic/Lakers FO couldn't prevent the leaks is also on Lebron.

So by the same logic, are we blaming MJ for breaking up the Bulls in '98.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Ohh so its just a coincidence that a star player of a other team wants out and just hired lebrons friend as agent and only wants to go the lakers

And kraus said that Phil wasent coming back so its Jordans fault that the bulls broke up? Why should a guy who won 6 titles in 8 years be fired? Did you see Alex Ferguson be fired by Man utd because the gm of united wanted to get more recognition for all the titles

Calm down.. It's called 'sarcasm'.. aimed at the obvious hate on Lebron for all the media leaks & and the PR nightmare. Magic / Lakers f*cked it up, not Lebron. There's nothing wrong with the transfer though, is there?

Lebron's the only reason the Lakers aren't extending their 6 year worst record in the league streak / AD joined the Lakers / Lakers sit atop of the Western Conference. But through your eyes, I'm sure you can find reasons why the Lakers FO did all that and Lebron's getting too much credit. Can you be sure this team even gets to the playoffs, without Lebron, as currently constituted?

Imagine the Bulls botching up the Oakley trade with a similar PR nightmare and Mike being in the middle of a social media storm cos Kraus screwed up. Or, closer to your example, imagine blaming Paul Pogba / DeGea / Rashford for all the transfers Woodward and Glazers have botched up over the last 8-10 years. Make any sense.

Maybe Krauss is a little more receptive if he receives a little gratitude for the work he's done, rather than constant insulting and mockery, even 22 years later, when he's dead. Kraus wasn't Buddha, and he eventually had enough I guess. Bad decision no doubt.

Like i said in other comments that it was the right thing to do. They would have been mad not to trade for davis. And no i dont think they would get to the playoffs if lebron wasent there.
And that united thing makes perfect sense.

But its also the thing i dont get with usa sports that the owners and gm are there to get the trophy not the players
And it seems the gms need to get some extra credit for winning usually its the players and manager and gms owners are just in the background.
But since im from europe it looks different for me. And maybe its my culture vs in usa if i didnt know the backstory between jordan and krause i would think they were good friends and just bantering because this is no different how me and my friends talk to each other or how i talk with a boss who is a "friend".

And lastly im not a united fan just to make that clear ynwa

[lazybatman]

Players are not "wildly more athletic now", particularly superstars. If there's been a change it's been teams doing a better job finding bench players. Shaq, MJ, etc would still be every bit the athletic freaks they were in their own eras and even more - would get all the benefits of modern training, analytics, etc.

I mean it's just basic biology - humans are not getting more athletic over time (although a larger population means you have a slightly better chance of finding freak outliers I suppose(

Fellows,
Is it a certainty that MJ goes 6/6 if he doesn't get drafted by Jerry Krauss @ no.3 in 1984?

stopped reading as soon as I read this glaring innacuracy in the very first statement.

hahaha.. no you didn't..

[LKN]

I've always worn his shoes and always considered him the GOAT but never actually watched him play. I'm on episode 3 of this documentary and I'm just amazed by Jordan...this doc really puts everything in perspective.

If you want to see some absolutely insane stuff look for these series on youtube:

1989 against the Cavs - 40/8/6 on 60 TS% (and with 3 spg too) (Game 5 features "The Shot")

1991 Finals

And one of the most insane series you will ever see:

1992 first round against the Miami heat

45/10/7 on 67 TS% with 3 spg and 1 bpg

(yes those numbers are correct )

[MJ2Rose]

I've always worn his shoes and always considered him the GOAT but never actually watched him play. I'm on episode 3 of this documentary and I'm just amazed by Jordan...this doc really puts everything in perspective.

If you want to see some absolutely insane stuff look for these series on youtube:

1989 against the Cavs - 40/8/6 on 60 TS% (and with 3 spg too) (Game 5 features "The Shot")

1991 Finals

And one of the most insane series you will ever see:

1992 first round against the Miami heat

45/10/7 on 67 TS% with 3 spg and 1 bpg

(yes those numbers are correct )

Ok I just pulled up the first one one I found in that Bulls-Heat series and Jordan is so much better than everyone else it’s scary. This wasn’t even his best game in that series!

Watch on YouTube

[carrrnuttt]

I've always worn his shoes and always considered him the GOAT but never actually watched him play. I'm on episode 3 of this documentary and I'm just amazed by Jordan...this doc really puts everything in perspective.

If you want to see some absolutely insane stuff look for these series on youtube:

1989 against the Cavs - 40/8/6 on 60 TS% (and with 3 spg too) (Game 5 features "The Shot")

1991 Finals

And one of the most insane series you will ever see:

1992 first round against the Miami heat

45/10/7 on 67 TS% with 3 spg and 1 bpg

(yes those numbers are correct )

Ok I just pulled up the first one one I found in that Bulls-Heat series and Jordan is so much better than everyone else it’s scary. This wasn’t even his best game in that series!

Watch on YouTube

And if you listened to the announcers, he likely played that game with a tweaked back.

Insane.

[carrrnuttt]

Ok I just pulled up the first one one I found in that Bulls-Heat series and Jordan is so much better than everyone else it’s scary. This wasn’t even his best game in that series!

Watch on YouTube

I'd also like to add for all the chuckleheads who try and talk down Jordan's competition: In that video, he's playing the 8TH SEED that featured Glen Rice, Rony Seikaly, Steve Smith and Grant Long. Not to mention Brian Shaw, who later in his career was a good role player for Shaq and Kobe.

[IG2]

he's playing the 8TH SEED that featured Glen Rice, Rony Seikaly, Steve Smith and Grant Long.

Ummm, clearly looks like a team with the talent of an 8th seed. 0 All Stars. Smith was a 12 ppg rookie. Seikaly and Long were decent NBA players. Rice was 4 years away from making his first AS team. They were awful defensively (25th out of 27). Won only 38 games and failed to make the playoffs the following season (1993).

Still a damn good series by MJ. From an aesthetic standpoint probably my favorite of his. But come on, this was very sub-par competition.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

In anticipation of Episode 7 tomorrow, I'll leave y'all with this video, and you'll understand it is quite fitting after watching Ep 7:

Watch on YouTube

[Pennebaker]

In episodes 5 and 6 Jordan revealed the nature of the league in the 80's and 90's that I think factors in the GOAT debate.

Michael Jordan, whilst drinking a beer with teammates immediately after a game in 1998 ("hey don't film us drinking beers after a game!"), said that in the 1980's players used to drink beer and smoke cigarettes at halftime, and that coaches would enable players to do it.

Those halftime beer drinkers and smokers were Jordan's opponents!

In terms of physical fitness and commitment to excellence, the quality of the league today compared to the 80's and 90's is night and day.

Standards are higher today.

Daryl Morey touched on this with his recent tweet: "...every athlete is pretty much better than the athletes were 30 years ago."

[DavidSterned]

In episodes 5 and 6 Jordan revealed the nature of the league in the 80's and 90's that I think factors in the GOAT debate.

Michael Jordan, whilst drinking a beer with teammates immediately after a game in 1998 ("hey don't film us drinking beers after a game!"), said that in the 1980's players used to drink beer and smoke cigarettes at halftime, and that coaches would enable players to do it.

Those halftime beer drinkers and smokers were Jordan's opponents!

In terms of physical fitness and commitment to excellence, the quality of the league today compared to the 80's and 90's is night and day.

Standards are higher today.

Daryl Morey touched on this with his recent tweet: "...every athlete is pretty much better than the athletes were 30 years ago."

Three more days until Taco Tuesday (™)

[prolific passer]

In episodes 5 and 6 Jordan revealed the nature of the league in the 80's and 90's that I think factors in the GOAT debate.

Michael Jordan, whilst drinking a beer with teammates immediately after a game in 1998 ("hey don't film us drinking beers after a game!"), said that in the 1980's players used to drink beer and smoke cigarettes at halftime, and that coaches would enable players to do it.

Those halftime beer drinkers and smokers were Jordan's opponents!

In terms of physical fitness and commitment to excellence, the quality of the league today compared to the 80's and 90's is night and day.

Standards are higher today.

Daryl Morey touched on this with his recent tweet: "...every athlete is pretty much better than the athletes were 30 years ago."

Three more days until Taco Tuesday (™)

But, what if we already had tacos before then? :/

[twyzted]

In episodes 5 and 6 Jordan revealed the nature of the league in the 80's and 90's that I think factors in the GOAT debate.

Michael Jordan, whilst drinking a beer with teammates immediately after a game in 1998 ("hey don't film us drinking beers after a game!"), said that in the 1980's players used to drink beer and smoke cigarettes at halftime, and that coaches would enable players to do it.

Those halftime beer drinkers and smokers were Jordan's opponents!

In terms of physical fitness and commitment to excellence, the quality of the league today compared to the 80's and 90's is night and day.

Standards are higher today.

Daryl Morey touched on this with his recent tweet: "...every athlete is pretty much better than the athletes were 30 years ago."

And Jordan dominated and is considered by most the
goat and he did it while smoking cigars and drinking beer after every game what whould he do if he was playing in the current nba shhiieeet

Imagine king james drinking alcohol in the middle of the season he would never



Wait what is that on the same day as cavs were playing the hawks yikes i mean only people in the 80s and 90s would do this who.

Why with all those advances in sports today but surely not the whole team would go out drinking the night before a game

https://www.tmz.com/2019/11/18/lebron-james-anthony-davis-dwight-howard-demarcus-cousins-rajon-rondo-sip-expenxive-louis-xiii-cognac/

Well maybe they are still humans after all.
im also pretty sure some guys even smoke weed in middle of the season.

[lazybatman]

Watch on YouTube

Nick Wright is a deluded nut, the same as Skip Bayless, but this is just funny.. Old People be lying!!!

[MJ2Rose]

In episodes 5 and 6 Jordan revealed the nature of the league in the 80's and 90's that I think factors in the GOAT debate.

Michael Jordan, whilst drinking a beer with teammates immediately after a game in 1998 ("hey don't film us drinking beers after a game!"), said that in the 1980's players used to drink beer and smoke cigarettes at halftime, and that coaches would enable players to do it.

Those halftime beer drinkers and smokers were Jordan's opponents!

In terms of physical fitness and commitment to excellence, the quality of the league today compared to the 80's and 90's is night and day.

Standards are higher today.

Daryl Morey touched on this with his recent tweet: "...every athlete is pretty much better than the athletes were 30 years ago."

Bro lots of players smoke weed now before games and stay out late to go drink at strip clubs.

[ssang]

I've always worn his shoes and always considered him the GOAT but never actually watched him play. I'm on episode 3 of this documentary and I'm just amazed by Jordan...this doc really puts everything in perspective.

If you want to see some absolutely insane stuff look for these series on youtube:

1989 against the Cavs - 40/8/6 on 60 TS% (and with 3 spg too) (Game 5 features "The Shot")

1991 Finals

And one of the most insane series you will ever see:

1992 first round against the Miami heat

45/10/7 on 67 TS% with 3 spg and 1 bpg

(yes those numbers are correct )

All phenomenal sources to get a taste of Jordan's greatness. And I'll add this one too. For my money, YouTubes' "MICHAEL JORDAN: THE LEGEND OF THE GREATEST (by Balthus23)" it gives the the best, most efficient (yes, in spite of it's 5 hours runtime, like MJ himself, it is efficient. After all, It's Jordan! He was mind-blowing every day, every possession, and I'm not even being hyperbolic when I say that), overall glimpse into MJ's pure awesomeness, condensed into a one-stop shopping capacity.

Thousands of Jordan plays -- blow-by drives, post ups, jump shots, defensive play making - steals, blocks, whatever - dunks - on the break, in, over, and around defenders - insane gravity defying finishes, bullet, no-look, deliciously precise passes, and so on and so forth -- beginning with his time at UNC (first 20+ minutes alone are just Jordan tearing it up play play after play in college) to his early years, all the way on through till the end of MJ's playing days, regular season, playoffs, you name it; all the while experiencing it all with the original audio of the the telecasts I might add (which adds a lot to the experience). It never gets old.

Over the I've burned this onto well over 100 DVD's over the years and have gifted them out to countless amounts of my early to mid something 20's employees, young cousins, friends, friends of friends, LeBron and/or modern game-truthers who don't know any better (Daryl Morey should probably take a look), the doormen in my condo; the list goes on and on.

jg77 -- in addition to LKN's recommended Jordan games on YouTube, which I whole-heartedly endorse as well, I also encourage you to check this one out too (amongst roughly 600 other incredible Jordan compilations out there on the interwebs)

Watch on YouTube

;t=10797s

[DirtybirdGA]

Back on....Kenny Smith has been on TNT forever, brief shot of him speaking on the nets 98 series.