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OT- The Last Dance documentary

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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1021 » by bledredwine » Sat May 9, 2020 10:42 pm

dice wrote:
ATRAIN53 wrote:
troza wrote:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198804030DET.html

if someone wants to check the box score.


Charles Oakley with the double double 14/11 boards
San Vincent too 18/ 13 assists

But MJ

17-19 Free Throws

59 Points -

only 1 3 Point attempt

We won this game 112-110

This game is the epitomie of the Jordan Rules.

They just mauled him, but he just keeps stepping up to the FT stripe and knocking them down.

I bet his 2 blocks in this game are pretty epic

LOL 1 point combined from a young Pip and Horace those guys were SCARED in these games back then.

according to wikipedia, the "jordan rules" were devised by isiah in '88 and utilized in the '88 playoffs. in that series, jordan's average offensive game line was:

11/22, 6/8, 27/5/4to. close to human

as opposed to his regular season averages vs all teams:

13/24, 9/11, 35/6/3to

he also had subpar numbers against them in the '89 and '90 playoffs before killing them in the '91 sweep

career TS% vs eastern teams (50 games min.):

60.2 milwaukee
60.1 charlotte

58.7 atlanta
57.8 NY
57.3 boston
57.3 jersey
57.1 philly
56.7 cleveland

55.1 indy
55.0 detroit


It was not Isiah. It's been said by Piston players multiple times that it was Chuck Daly because he was tired of Jordan embarrassing the team. Regardless, that's still Jordan absolutely slaughtering the best defensive team in the league, every trip down the court. They would bash him well before the Jordan Rules.

PER googling (CBS Sports) - The way the Pistons did it was by implementing what has become known as "The Jordan Rules," which is a set of principles devised by former Pistons head coach Chuck Daly after Jordan dropped 59 points on the Pistons in the lead-up to the 1988

By anyone's standards (even GOAT standards), Jordan's performances were amazing, nearly doubling the second best player on either team, posting 30 7 and 6 well before 30 points became an arbitrary number like today's stat-inflated league... on nearly all 2's, to boot. There's no calling Jordan's Pistons series anything but amazing, especially considering the defense. But ultimately, he didn't have nearly enough help and the Pistons were stacked on both ends of the court.

And he was still able to have performances like this


Jordan played very well considering what the Jordan Rules were.

"If Michael was at the point, we forced him left and doubled him. If he was on the left wing, we went immediately to a double team from the top. If he was on the right wing, we went to a slow double team. He could hurt you equally from either wing—hell, he could hurt you from the hot-dog stand—but we just wanted to vary the look. And if he was on the box, we doubled with a big guy.
"The other rule was, any time he went by you, you had to nail him. If he was coming off a screen, nail him. We didn't want to be dirty—I know some people thought we were—but we had to make contact and be very physical."



So if the Pistons had to do that to limit him to 30 ppg, imagine what he'd do vs. the pillow-soft defenses today. In an interview, Kenny Smith mentioned that they created a new rule making it illegal for Jordan to go 1 v 1 because he was scoring at a stupid high rate. Well, enter today's league, where there's spacing galore. I've never seen as much spacing as Lebron's spacing on that Miami team. Golden State? Forget it.
:o LeBron is 0-7 in game winning/tying FGs in the finals. And is 20/116 or 17% in game winning/tying FGs in the 4th/OT for his career. That's historically bad :o
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1022 » by Jcool0 » Sun May 10, 2020 1:08 am

The real documentary:

Guarding Jordan with Jeff & Abby Hornacek

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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1023 » by Kurt Heimlich » Mon May 11, 2020 2:10 am

Wow I never heard that lebradford smith story. I'm dying over here lol.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1024 » by Payt10 » Mon May 11, 2020 3:06 am

I had no idea Jordan changed his number in the middle of the playoffs. Is that still allowed in today's NBA?
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1025 » by SearsTower » Mon May 11, 2020 3:19 am

Payt10 wrote:I had no idea Jordan changed his number in the middle of the playoffs. Is that still allowed in today's NBA?


Idk, but I think he was fined every time he wore it. #23 was actually retired at the time so I think Jordan #45 was playing with his own jersey #23 hanging in the rafters at the UC lol.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1026 » by Repeat 3-peat » Mon May 11, 2020 3:39 am

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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1027 » by Repeat 3-peat » Mon May 11, 2020 3:59 am

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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1028 » by Repeat 3-peat » Mon May 11, 2020 4:00 am

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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1029 » by Chewie » Mon May 11, 2020 4:31 am

What stuck with me more than anything tonight was the Grover interview. After Bulls were eliminated to the Magic in the playoffs and Tim Grover is ready to go on his merry way for the offseason, he's talking to Michael and asks him when he wants him to be available to start working out....."Tomorrow". :o
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1030 » by Payt10 » Mon May 11, 2020 4:31 am

Repeat 3-peat wrote:
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In fairness, Jordan's points and efficiency went way down when Payton guarded him the last 3 games of the series, so he wasn't exactly wrong with his assessment.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1031 » by dice » Mon May 11, 2020 4:38 am

legalize kemp
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1032 » by Repeat 3-peat » Mon May 11, 2020 4:42 am

lol.

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Episode 7 & 8 was fantastic.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1033 » by ChiCitySPORTS#1 » Mon May 11, 2020 4:47 am

Watching this documentary makes me feel oddly embarrassed about the current Bulls.

What a joke. A prestigious franchise that hasn’t done **** since MJ. Something needs to happen, we need a winner now, tired of this
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1034 » by MrSparkle » Mon May 11, 2020 4:48 am

Strong episodes.

Director said that Isiah comes out looking the worst ... Man, I come out thinking Pippen's looking the most foolish. Can't believe he said he'd still quit if he could do it again. Cartwright was in tears- wow.

I like how Toni was such a calm and cool cat in the midst of all that craziness, including when MJ returned.

Not in the documentary but Tex Winter was on record saying he thought the original team with Horace and Cartwright was better; ran a more true version of the triangle. It's interesting though - by having Horace ditch town and being forced to replace him a year later (with Rodman), they saved so much cap-space in the long-run (Horace got the $30m/2y extension from 96-98, same time MJ got his $63m). I'm not sure how the cap worked then, but would they be able to retain the depth with two huge salaries?
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1035 » by Chewie » Mon May 11, 2020 4:49 am

Scottie sticking to his guns and saying he wouldn't change anything about how he handled the 1.8 second play vs the Knicks. Christ, Scottie...grow up.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1036 » by MrSparkle » Mon May 11, 2020 4:52 am

ChiCitySPORTS#1 wrote:Watching this documentary makes me feel oddly embarrassed about the current Bulls.

What a joke. A prestigious franchise that hasn’t done **** since MJ. Something needs to happen, we need a winner now, tired of this


It's weird seeing such amazing, high IQ talent in Bulls jerseys. It's not that long ago, yet it is ancient history.

Even Toni Kukoc, the 3rd or 4th best player on the team... Such a skilled, talented, tall rare specimen of a basketball player. Those fadeaway game-winners he hit in the 93/94 season were all insane. The coaching staff. Man. Even that MJ-less year, the Bulls played such a polished system.

How did we get to Zach, Hutchinson, Kornet and Felicio? And Boylen? :oops:

And boy do I miss Johnny Redd screaming "Holy Mackerel!" :cry:
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1037 » by dice » Mon May 11, 2020 5:11 am

Chewie wrote:Scottie sticking to his guns and saying he wouldn't change anything about how he handled the 1.8 second play vs the Knicks. Christ, Scottie...grow up.

that didn't make much sense. everything else up to that point seemed to suggest that he regretted his actions

pretty remarkable that the worst moment of his career was followed in the very next game by his absolute high point as a player (the exclamation point dunk over ewing and subsequent taunting of spike lee in the process of tying the series)
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1038 » by logical_art » Mon May 11, 2020 5:18 am

Payt10 wrote:
Repeat 3-peat wrote:
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In fairness, Jordan's points and efficiency went way down when Payton guarded him the last 3 games of the series, so he wasn't exactly wrong with his assessment.


If you watched the episode he says that his mind wasn't there because it was on his dad. Not sure if true or not but MJ wasn't one to make excuses.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1039 » by logical_art » Mon May 11, 2020 5:21 am

I was expecting much worse about Michael with his teammates given all the rumblings about how he could be such a nasty guy. He punched Steve and then apologized. He rode a soft Burrell hard and called him a bitch/ho. BFD.
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Re: OT- The Last Dance documentary 

Post#1040 » by logical_art » Mon May 11, 2020 5:24 am

This documentary didn't do a good job with the relationship between sensitive sometimes soft Scottie and ultra competitive tough MJ. That dynamic working was key to the dynasty and yet it hasn't really been covered.

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