OT- The Last Dance documentary

[logical_art]

Scottie sticking to his guns and saying he wouldn't change anything about how he handled the 1.8 second play vs the Knicks. Christ, Scottie...grow up.

He was talking out of both sides of his mouth too. He regretted it but would have done it again. What?

[dice]

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In fairness, Jordan's points and efficiency went way down when Payton guarded him the last 3 games of the series, so he wasn't exactly wrong with his assessment.

If you watched the episode he says that his mind wasn't there because it was on his dad. Not sure if true or not but MJ wasn't one to make excuses.

MJ is making **** up there. his mind didn't suddenly switch to his father at the same time that payton took on guarding him in game 4 in seattle. game 6 in chicago was father's day. and suggesting that he was thinking about his father during games and it caused him to play poorly...in the finals...doesn't make sense either

[logical_art]

In fairness, Jordan's points and efficiency went way down when Payton guarded him the last 3 games of the series, so he wasn't exactly wrong with his assessment.

If you watched the episode he says that his mind wasn't there because it was on his dad. Not sure if true or not but MJ wasn't one to make excuses.

MJ is making **** up there. his mind didn't suddenly switch to his father at the same time that payton took on guarding him in game 4 in seattle. game 6 in chicago was father's day. and suggesting that he was thinking about his father during games and it caused him to play poorly...in the finals...doesn't make sense either

Maybe. Are there other examples of MJ making up excuses? It seems very out of character.

[dice]

Strong episodes.

Director said that Isiah comes out looking the worst ... Man, I come out thinking Pippen's looking the most foolish. Can't believe he said he'd still quit if he could do it again. Cartwright was in tears- wow.

I like how Toni was such a calm and cool cat in the midst of all that craziness, including when MJ returned.

Not in the documentary but Tex Winter was on record saying he thought the original team with Horace and Cartwright was better; ran a more true version of the triangle. It's interesting though - by having Horace ditch town and being forced to replace him a year later (with Rodman), they saved so much cap-space in the long-run (Horace got the $30m/2y extension from 96-98, same time MJ got his $63m). I'm not sure how the cap worked then, but would they be able to retain the depth with two huge salaries?

horace actually signed a 5 year 50 mil deal in '96 that was heavily front-loaded. after an obvious under the table arrangement in which he signed a 5 year/17 mil deal in '94 w/ an opt out after 2 years

and horace, like MJ and scottie, would have been bird rule eligible going into '96-'97, so it wouldn't have impacted the roster as no significant FAs were signed during the last 2 years of the dynasty

[MrSparkle]

Just two episodes left. So glad this documentary came out early; been a healthy dose of inspiration during a pretty tough time. Bummer there are under 2hrs left.

Predicting: Ep. 9 is probably all about Indiana (boy was that a great team) - got 7 games with a lot of nail-biters to get through. Also think they get back to Krause's behind-the-curtains schemes to nuke the roster and coaching staff (introducing his "fishing trips" with Tim Floyd). The timeline jumps were working well again; I like how it's sandwiching the history towards 98. Guessing we'll get a brief recap of the 97 season and off-season.

Ep. 10 is all about 98, the Utah series, and the post-chip offseason. The "softball pitch" to get MJ/Phil to return, despite the fact that Tim Floyd was already hired into the organization and Pippen was all but checked out. It'll probably be an all-out Krause pelting as he officially dismantles the dynasty.

[MrSparkle]

Strong episodes.

Director said that Isiah comes out looking the worst ... Man, I come out thinking Pippen's looking the most foolish. Can't believe he said he'd still quit if he could do it again. Cartwright was in tears- wow.

I like how Toni was such a calm and cool cat in the midst of all that craziness, including when MJ returned.

Not in the documentary but Tex Winter was on record saying he thought the original team with Horace and Cartwright was better; ran a more true version of the triangle. It's interesting though - by having Horace ditch town and being forced to replace him a year later (with Rodman), they saved so much cap-space in the long-run (Horace got the $30m/2y extension from 96-98, same time MJ got his $63m). I'm not sure how the cap worked then, but would they be able to retain the depth with two huge salaries?

horace actually signed a 5 year 50 mil deal in '96 that was heavily front-loaded. after an obvious under the table arrangement in which he signed a 5 year/17 mil deal in '94 w/ an opt out after 2 years

Ah I see, that makes sense.

Was it more a matter of Horace wanting to burn the Bulls/Krause/Reinsdorf and go to Florida, or did the Bulls refuse to offer anything close to the tune of that Orlando offer?

[dice]

Just two episodes left. So glad this documentary came out early; been a healthy dose of inspiration during a pretty tough time. Bummer there are under 2hrs left.

Predicting: Ep. 9 is probably all about Indiana (boy was that a great team) - got 7 games with a lot of nail-biters to get through. Also think they get back to Krause's behind-the-curtains schemes to nuke the roster and coaching staff (introducing his "fishing trips" with Tim Floyd). The timeline jumps were working well again; I like how it's sandwiching the history towards 98. Guessing we'll get a brief recap of the 97 season and off-season.

Ep. 10 is all about 98, the Utah series, and the post-chip offseason. The "softball pitch" to get MJ/Phil to return, despite the fact that Tim Floyd was already hired into the organization and Pippen was all but checked out. It'll probably be an all-out Krause pelting as he officially dismantles the dynasty.

if i'm remembering correctly, the director said in an interview that it will come as a surprise the level of defense krause gets (probably from MJ and/or phil)

[dice]

Strong episodes.

Director said that Isiah comes out looking the worst ... Man, I come out thinking Pippen's looking the most foolish. Can't believe he said he'd still quit if he could do it again. Cartwright was in tears- wow.

I like how Toni was such a calm and cool cat in the midst of all that craziness, including when MJ returned.

Not in the documentary but Tex Winter was on record saying he thought the original team with Horace and Cartwright was better; ran a more true version of the triangle. It's interesting though - by having Horace ditch town and being forced to replace him a year later (with Rodman), they saved so much cap-space in the long-run (Horace got the $30m/2y extension from 96-98, same time MJ got his $63m). I'm not sure how the cap worked then, but would they be able to retain the depth with two huge salaries?

horace actually signed a 5 year 50 mil deal in '96 that was heavily front-loaded. after an obvious under the table arrangement in which he signed a 5 year/17 mil deal in '94 w/ an opt out after 2 years

Ah I see, that makes sense.

Was it more a matter of Horace wanting to burn the Bulls/Krause/Reinsdorf and go to Florida, or did the Bulls refuse to offer anything close to the tune of that Orlando offer?

the bulls offered more than that first orlando offer, but as i said, clearly horace knew there was a huge new deal coming behind it. initially they offered him a 1 year opt out, but the league rejected it and they made it a 2 year opt out

[johnnyvann840]

I had no idea Jordan changed his number in the middle of the playoffs. Is that still allowed in today's NBA?

Idk, but I think he was fined every time he wore it. #23 was actually retired at the time so I think Jordan #45 was playing with his own jersey #23 hanging in the rafters at the UC lol.

Jersey in the rafters and a statue outside the UC for the entire 2nd 3peat.

[dice]

I had no idea Jordan changed his number in the middle of the playoffs. Is that still allowed in today's NBA?

Idk, but I think he was fined every time he wore it. #23 was actually retired at the time so I think Jordan #45 was playing with his own jersey #23 hanging in the rafters at the UC lol.

Jersey in the rafters and a statue outside the UC for the entire 2nd 3peat.

yeah, well, well...kobe has BOTH his jersey numbers retired

[dice]

good thing that the filming of a crappy kids movie didn't get in the way of MJ getting prepared for '95-'96

[logical_art]

I'm kind of shocked by how much praise this is getting. It's a great subject and a trove of footage, but I think a bunch of us could have put it together better. Why for example do they start with Krause getting all defensive about backstabbing and then not return to it in that episode or the next? Just poor story telling.

[dice]

Wow I never heard that lebradford smith story. I'm dying over here lol.

not sure why MJ made up the story. you would think that lebradford having a big game would have been enough to give him an additional edge

[dice]

I'm kind of shocked by how much praise this is getting. It's a great subject and a trove of footage, but I think a bunch of us could have put it together better. Why for example do they start y with Krause getting all defensive about backstabbing and then not return to it in that episode or the next? Just poor story telling.

it'd be interesting if someone would do an analysis of how much of this actually ends up being about the final season. probably less than half so far. not that i mind. and i can follow along fine, but i could understand why someone who didn't live through that era might have issues w/ the timelines

[logical_art]

I'm kind of shocked by how much praise this is getting. It's a great subject and a trove of footage, but I think a bunch of us could have put it together better. Why for example do they start y with Krause getting all defensive about backstabbing and then not return to it in that episode or the next? Just poor story telling.

it'd be interesting if someone would do an analysis of how much of this actually ends up being about the final season. probably less than half so far. not that i mind. and i can follow along fine, but i could understand why someone who didn't live through that era might have issues w/ the timelines

I can follow it too it just doesn't come across as a really well crafted narrative. Maybe its because it was rushed.

[Threekola]

I'm kind of shocked by how much praise this is getting. It's a great subject and a trove of footage, but I think a bunch of us could have put it together better. Why for example do they start y with Krause getting all defensive about backstabbing and then not return to it in that episode or the next? Just poor story telling.

it'd be interesting if someone would do an analysis of how much of this actually ends up being about the final season. probably less than half so far. not that i mind. and i can follow along fine, but i could understand why someone who didn't live through that era might have issues w/ the timelines

I can follow it too it just doesn't come across as a really well crafted narrative. Maybe its because it was rushed.

Been saying from the beginning that the time cuts are really random and make no sense. Also, the documentary is not really about the 98 season and breakup, it's basically a documentary about Jordan's career. Which is fine. But that's what it is.

[The 6ft Hurdle]

MJ as a "teammate tester" makes me wonder how he's whiffed so badly as a general manager beginning with Kwame Brown on down.

[Jeffster81]

This series has been fine but nothing that blows my socks off.

[dumbell78]

I loved tonight's episodes maybe more so then all the others thus far. Brought back a lot of the same emotions I had during that time. I got teary eyed a couple times.

[bledredwine]

Idk, but I think he was fined every time he wore it. #23 was actually retired at the time so I think Jordan #45 was playing with his own jersey #23 hanging in the rafters at the UC lol.

Jersey in the rafters and a statue outside the UC for the entire 2nd 3peat.

yeah, well, well...kobe has BOTH his jersey numbers retired

Sure, but has any player ever had their jersey number retired in a franchise that they never even played for, like Pat Riley did with the Heat? Kobe had both jerseys retired because he’s one of the Lakers best and wore two numbers for substantial periods of time.

Jordan got that statue and number retirement because his gravity and dominance was larger than what we had ever seen.