2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[HighRyzer83]

If we have the ability to trade up for any of Wiseman, Lamelo, Edwards without giving up much I would sign up for it all day. Those 3 are in a tier alone in this draft.

Bruh you're the only one who wants Wiseman

[WargamesX]

First he needs to become better than Beno Udrih

Spoiler:

Wow! Beno was left handed and came in so unatheletic he had a dad bod his whole time in the league. That is some grade A hating through a comparisons. Also yeah Hayes looks slow in Europe. That shouldn’t be brushed over.

He's not the most athletic , which is not to say he's "slow to me.

Athleticism / Frame Overview:

Not a great athlete, but showed noticeable improvement from last year to this year and given age & improvements so far, there is reason to believe that more athletic improvements can be made
Not very quick laterally / does not have much vertical pop
Has great balance and stop and go ability
Good frame with room to pack on strength – strong quads for age

But like Luka his athleticism is in no way a limiting factor...this kid knows how to get to his spots ...and just knows how to play.

Watch on YouTube

I wish these highlight videos showed the dates of the game. In this video you could tell that at first defenses hadn’t game planned for his outside shot because they were giving him a lot of space to shoot. I don’t know if it’s chronological for most of the video or just based on what looks Hayes get. You can see once the defender goes over the screen to stick to him he ends up taking a lot more mid range shots. He might get fouled on the way to the basket but I want to say these shots happen a few feet out and him throwing up a quick pop shot/floater. Even if the foot speed isn’t there I wouldn’t mind seeing the ball handle to keep the defender on his back in order to make space for a rim runner. I don’t know if this is even something his team would ask of him or if the big he is playing with does that so maybe he can do that.

Frank does the same quick pop shot/floater shot a lot because he doesn’t have the speed/ball handling to get in closer now. Frank got better once he got stronger and I assume that what people expect Hayes would do. He would need to add strength to finish through contact. I give Hayes credit he really knows how to use a screen to get the initial defender behind him, but once the hedge comes he’s shooting the two or passing. I don’t know if this is him, I need to watch more but that is a speed/strength/ball handling concern to me. I hear he’s gone the other way and learned Harden’s step back 3 to create space for his outside shot. I like to hear that, It shows he is adapting, but I would prefer if he just had a way to get to the hoop once he gets passed that first defender, especially in a less athletic European league. Harden doesn’t have the speed either but his hall handling and ability to finish through contact (that he looks to make) get him through.

Also I was a big fan of Luka cause he had the ball handling and size to get anywhere he wants on the court. Hayes handle seems good, but it’s not Luka’s level of handle. He doesn’t have that ball on a string.

[HEZI]

Yes with better passing skills

First he needs to become better than Beno Udrih

Spoiler:

Wow! Beno was left handed and came in so unatheletic he had a dad bod his whole time in the league. That is some grade A hating through a comparisons. Also yeah Hayes looks slow in Europe. That shouldn’t be brushed over.

[HEZI]

First he needs to become better than Beno Udrih

Spoiler:

Wow! Beno was left handed and came in so unatheletic he had a dad bod his whole time in the league. That is some grade A hating through a comparisons. Also yeah Hayes looks slow in Europe. That shouldn’t be brushed over.

He's not the most athletic , which is not to say he's "slow to me.

Athleticism / Frame Overview:

Not a great athlete, but showed noticeable improvement from last year to this year and given age & improvements so far, there is reason to believe that more athletic improvements can be made
Not very quick laterally / does not have much vertical pop
Has great balance and stop and go ability
Good frame with room to pack on strength – strong quads for age

But like Luka his athleticism is in no way a limiting factor...this kid knows how to get to his spots ...and just knows how to play.

Watch on YouTube

[RHODEY]

Wow! Beno was left handed and came in so unatheletic he had a dad bod his whole time in the league. That is some grade A hating through a comparisons. Also yeah Hayes looks slow in Europe. That shouldn’t be brushed over.

He's not the most athletic , which is not to say he's "slow to me.

Athleticism / Frame Overview:

Not a great athlete, but showed noticeable improvement from last year to this year and given age & improvements so far, there is reason to believe that more athletic improvements can be made
Not very quick laterally / does not have much vertical pop
Has great balance and stop and go ability
Good frame with room to pack on strength – strong quads for age

But like Luka his athleticism is in no way a limiting factor...this kid knows how to get to his spots ...and just knows how to play.

Watch on YouTube

I wish these highlight videos showed the dates of the game. In this video you could tell that at first defenses hadn’t game planned for his outside shot because they were giving him a lot of space to shoot. I don’t know if it’s chronological for most of the video or just based on what looks Hayes get. You can see once the defender goes over the screen to stick to him he ends up taking a lot more mid range shots. He might get fouled on the way to the basket but I want to say these shots happen a few feet out and him throwing up a quick pop shot/floater. Even if the foot speed isn’t there I wouldn’t mind seeing the ball handle to keep the defender on his back in order to make space for a rim runner. I don’t know if this is even something his team would ask of him or if the big he is playing with does that so maybe he can do that.

Frank does the same quick pop shot/floater shot a lot because he doesn’t have the speed/ball handling to get in closer now. Frank got better once he got stronger and I assume that what people expect Hayes would do. He would need to add strength to finish through contact. I give Hayes credit he really knows how to use a screen to get the initial defender behind him, but once the hedge comes he’s shooting the two or passing. I don’t know if this is him, I need to watch more but that is a speed/strength/ball handling concern to me. I hear he’s gone the other way and learned Harden’s step back 3 to create space for his outside shot. I like to hear that, It shows he is adapting, but I would prefer if he just had a way to get to the hoop once he gets passed that first defender, especially in a less athletic European league. Harden doesn’t have the speed either but his hall handling and ability to finish through contact (that he looks to make) get him through.

Also I was a big fan of Luka cause he had the ball handling and size to get anywhere he wants on the court. Hayes handle seems good, but it’s not Luka’s level of handle. He doesn’t have that ball on a string.

No not Luka level but this kid is young and improving at a rapid rate. He's going to surprise a lot of people.

[El Poochio]

Cole is not even half as skilled as Træ, their measurements are similar though. Yikes

[DaGawd]

They talking about moving the draft to August.. Bruh

[thebuzzardman]

Adding up the consensus, Knicks seem kind of screwed for a starting PG if they don't draft LaMelo for PG, and maybe even if they do!

[WargamesX]

Adding up the consensus, Knicks seem kind of screwed for a starting PG if they don't draft LaMelo for PG, and maybe even if they do!

I like Hal, and I understand Hayes potential.

If the Knicks wanted to move up this is the draft. So many teams are going to be screwed when the cap goes down and it’s considered a roleplayer draft.

In the grand scheme of things.....

[thebuzzardman]

Adding up the consensus, Knicks seem kind of screwed for a starting PG if they don't draft LaMelo for PG, and maybe even if they do!

I like Hal, and I understand Hayes potential.

If the Knicks wanted to move up this is the draft. So many teams are going to be screwed when the cap goes down and it’s considered a roleplayer draft.

In the grand scheme of things.....

There seem to be some valid arguments that Hayes and Haliburton are borderline starting PG's. Right now the Knicks have three of those. Well, three if DSJr gets off the Bojangles

[robillionaire]

cole probably won't be as bad as people are making him out to be. almost getting trae young vibes with how much hate he gets leading up to the draft, probably going to end up embarrassing some folks. i was never really high on him and the criticisms of his season are mostly fair but I think we're deep into underrated territory. if we get him 7-10 I can't be mad at it although i'd still rather trade up

Based on what? The two are nothing alike.

I wasn't comparing their actual game, just their draft trajectory with the initial hype and then fall and the fact he was skewered on here and nobody wanted him but he turned out being pretty good anyway, just saying I could also see that happening with cole

[WargamesX]

Adding up the consensus, Knicks seem kind of screwed for a starting PG if they don't draft LaMelo for PG, and maybe even if they do!

I like Hal, and I understand Hayes potential.

If the Knicks wanted to move up this is the draft. So many teams are going to be screwed when the cap goes down and it’s considered a roleplayer draft.

In the grand scheme of things.....

There seem to be some valid arguments that Hayes and Haliburton are borderline starting PG's. Right now the Knicks have three of those. Well, three if DSJr gets off the Bojangles

It’s complicated. I don’t even think DSJr is bad he just can’t shoot and had a lot of personal stuff go down. He put up 16/4 as a rookie. The problem is you can’t have another starter on the roster who can’t shoot with RJ and Mitch so he’s the odd man out.

Anyhow Hal and Hayes have shown they can shoot. That alone makes them better for the role.

[robillionaire]

If we have the ability to trade up for any of Wiseman, Lamelo, Edwards without giving up much I would sign up for it all day. Those 3 are in a tier alone in this draft.

ok so here's the plan. we have to get lamelo by any means necessary that goes without saying. so let's say the warriors win top 1-2. we trade them mitch for their pick. as mentioned prior they probably won't want to use their salary cap on a rookie and we know they want mitch from the rumored d-lo trade. so we trade them something centered around mitch and a future asset but we keep our pick and then use our pick to draft wiseman cuz we get lucky and he's gonna fall to 6th

if he's gone I guess just draft anybody else we like maybe take a swing on avdija or whoever is there, not a PG because we're already set for the next 15 years at PG, and take a replacement big man later in the draft or sign aron baynes in free agency. Anyway, that's the only realistic scenario I see the knicks taking wiseman. Maybe the warriors win the first pick and we get 3rd- 4th and we find out through the rumor mill that lamelo isn't going to fall to us unless we trade.*ducks*

[thebuzzardman]

I like Hal, and I understand Hayes potential.

If the Knicks wanted to move up this is the draft. So many teams are going to be screwed when the cap goes down and it’s considered a roleplayer draft.

In the grand scheme of things.....

There seem to be some valid arguments that Hayes and Haliburton are borderline starting PG's. Right now the Knicks have three of those. Well, three if DSJr gets off the Bojangles

It’s complicated. I don’t even think DSJr is bad he just can’t shoot and had a lot of personal stuff go down. He put up 16/4 as a rookie. The problem is you can’t have another starter on the roster who can’t shoot with RJ and Mitch so he’s the odd man out.

Anyhow Hal and Hayes have shown they can shoot. That alone makes them better for the role.

I "think" that LaMelo's elite creativity and ability to drive makes him the choice if the Knicks draft at #1 or #2 in some stroke of draft luck, though I'd really consider Edwards and make due for a year, even if I feel he kind of duplicates RJ. And that's with the fears that teams will collapse off LaMelo because he can't shoot and that will reduce his ability to drive. Plus add another non/inconsistent shooter.

[WargamesX]

There seem to be some valid arguments that Hayes and Haliburton are borderline starting PG's. Right now the Knicks have three of those. Well, three if DSJr gets off the Bojangles

It’s complicated. I don’t even think DSJr is bad he just can’t shoot and had a lot of personal stuff go down. He put up 16/4 as a rookie. The problem is you can’t have another starter on the roster who can’t shoot with RJ and Mitch so he’s the odd man out.

Anyhow Hal and Hayes have shown they can shoot. That alone makes them better for the role.

I "think" that LaMelo's elite creativity and ability to drive makes him the choice if the Knicks draft at #1 or #2 in some stroke of draft luck, though I'd really consider Edwards and make due for a year, even if I feel he kind of duplicates RJ. And that's with the fears that teams will collapse off LaMelo because he can't shoot and that will reduce his ability to drive. Plus add another non/inconsistent shooter.

I mean yeah if we move up for the first time in 30 years. I think LaMelo has to be taken if he is there. If he gets his shot down he is a potential star. I keep assuming we’re going to be in the 6-8 range with my forecasts.

[thebuzzardman]

Read on Twitter

Nothing wrong with that. As I've said forever. The NBA is about star power. The Knicks have none. Would make sense if it's within reason.

Does Chad Ford have any inside information anymore? How many years has it been, if ever?

That out of the way, I'd see doing this.

Knicks have 7 first rounders in 4 years. Yes, I get there can be roster space for them with the unknown status of Trier and Dotson, and also the fact that Frank and DSJr are on their last year. That's 4 spots right there. On the other hand, having some extra picks is exactly useful in these sorts of situations - moving up/around in the draft and then of course in any other kind of trade.

I hope the Knicks continue to gather extra picks as a franchise philosophy. I'm all for trading them in the right deals too

[thebuzzardman]

No trading up for Melo. Just stay at 6 Knicks

Cole or Haliburton will be there

In a hypothetical, let's say LaMelo falls to #3, or, the first two picks are off the board and one of them isn't LaMelo, and the Knicks are drafting at 6. Or the Knicks are drafting at 4, and LaMelo didn't go #1.

In a scenario like this, IF (big if I guess) the cost of moving up 2 or 3 picks was one of the Dallas # 1's, or the clippers picks this year (easy come, easy go), would you do that?

I could see spending the Clippers pick, easily, even though of course there will be some nice players still there. The Dallas ones, which I guess will be 22-26ish, a little more way as maybe a KP injury could randomly bring the pick into the high teens. Would probably still risk one of them for LaMelo

[WargamesX]

https://thepaintedlines.com/potential-sixers-draft-target-patrick-williams/

I like this kid Patrick Williams at #27. I know he’s a tweener, but Florida State was a really good team this year and they have a habit of having good players underperform in their system. If he could develop him into a SF he would be scary

[robillionaire]

the knicks pels games with lamelo and rj vs lonzo and zion are going to be fun

[RHODEY]

Adding up the consensus, Knicks seem kind of screwed for a starting PG if they don't draft LaMelo for PG, and maybe even if they do!

I like Hal, and I understand Hayes potential.

If the Knicks wanted to move up this is the draft. So many teams are going to be screwed when the cap goes down and it’s considered a roleplayer draft.

In the grand scheme of things.....

There seem to be some valid arguments that Hayes and Haliburton are borderline starting PG's. Right now the Knicks have three of those. Well, three if DSJr gets off the Bojangles

People are saying that about Halliburton, Hayes has been projected to at least be a solid starter and possibly a Star.