OT- The Last Dance documentary

[dumbell78]

If you watched the episode he says that his mind wasn't there because it was on his dad. Not sure if true or not but MJ wasn't one to make excuses.

MJ is making **** up there. his mind didn't suddenly switch to his father at the same time that payton took on guarding him in game 4 in seattle. game 6 in chicago was father's day. and suggesting that he was thinking about his father during games and it caused him to play poorly...in the finals...doesn't make sense either

I disagree. I think it was moreso, I'm about to accomplish this, but my dad isn't here. My dad's always been here with me for when I won.

I agree, that's the way I understood it. It wasn't just about the exact day they won "fathers day", its was the whole thing of how his father wasn't around for the first time when MJ was on the biggest stage. The process itself. The fact that he is playing for the chip and can possibly win it without his dad being there. That was mentally draining. His dad was obviously a huge support system for him, and lets face it he didn't have too many ppl he could talk to.

[logical_art]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2888905-michael-jordan-once-severed-finger-tendon-cutting-a-cigar-mightve-missed-games

[HomoSapien]

Jesus, that finger is seriously ****. I've never seen that picture before. Still, we've seen what he was able to do on the Wizards with a gimpy knee -- and even then he was able to do the palm fakes. If he was able to 85-90% Jordan, we'd have a serious shot at a ring.

[dumbell78]

How the hell can you shoot with that index finger???

[dice]

If you watched the episode he says that his mind wasn't there because it was on his dad. Not sure if true or not but MJ wasn't one to make excuses.

MJ is making **** up there. his mind didn't suddenly switch to his father at the same time that payton took on guarding him in game 4 in seattle. game 6 in chicago was father's day. and suggesting that he was thinking about his father during games and it caused him to play poorly...in the finals...doesn't make sense either

I disagree. I think it was moreso, I'm about to accomplish this, but my dad isn't here. My dad's always been here with me for when I won.

that might make sense for the first half of game 4. but this is michael damn jordan we're talking about. when he's trailing by 21 at halftime, his mind doesn't continue to wander for several more days and 2 and a half more games. certainly not after a tough sonics team has won consecutive games...in the finals

[Dan Z]

I just looked up the Pippen to Houston trade. If I remember correctly wasn't that trade done in part to give Scottie a big contract?

Looking back on it I'm surprised that Krause couldn't get something of value. He got Roy Rogers (who he quickly released) and a 2nd round pick.

[kulaz3000]

I just looked up the Pippen to Houston trade. If I remember correctly wasn't that trade done in part to give Scottie a big contract?

Looking back on it I'm surprised that Krause couldn't get something of value. He got Roy Rogers (who he quickly released) and a 2nd round pick.

It was effectively a sign and trade, with a player who they were going to lose for nothing otherwise. Trades like this still happen to this day.

[dice]

I just looked up the Pippen to Houston trade. If I remember correctly wasn't that trade done in part to give Scottie a big contract?

Looking back on it I'm surprised that Krause couldn't get something of value. He got Roy Rogers (who he quickly released) and a 2nd round pick.

It was effectively a sign and trade, with a player who they were going to lose for nothing otherwise. Trades like this still happen to this day.

it was partly to get the 2nd rounder and partly a good will gesture. i seem to recall scottie saying at the time that he appreciated it

[erlim]

I find it charming that Gary Payton brags about how well he guarded Jordan after losing to him in the finals. And that Jordan laughs out loud at the notion that anyone guarded him well, despite statistical evidence that Payton did impact MJ’s efficiency. Two alphas will never agree. Obviously one of those “alphas” is capitalized and one is lower case.

Man, your post made me think about the Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Payton Lakers squad that pooped the bed and it still makes me laugh thinking about it.

[troza]

The depth on that team with Jordan would just be insane:

C. Cartwright/Longley/Perdue
PF.Grant/S.Williams/Wennington/Blount
SF.Pippen/Kukoc/Buechler
SG.Jordan/Myers?
PG.Armstrong/Kerr/Paxson

That team just seems so dangerous.

Well... about Myers, I think I listened on the Woj interview with Krause or somewhere else that he just stayed because Jordan retired.

Buechler was not there for that season. All the others were.

And it is true, the depth of that team was insane in the center/power forward (where you miss Stacey King) and in the point guard position. And I don't believe that Armstrong was a better player... but even if he was, the defense on the point guard position is not strong but... instead of moving Kukoc to the 4 position (like we did in 98), here we could play with Pippen and Jordan in the backcourt and Kukoc at 3... and with Grant's mobile defense that might work. We would have more problems guarding big guys. I see this a problem in 98 where Jordan was a bit older and guarding the opposing best player all game would take out energy that it seems that he didn't have.

I have little doubt that the Bulls with Grant and MJ win those two years MJ was gone. I do wonder if Dennis or Grant would have been better for that last three peat. They could actually have had both and played Grant at center, which would have been pretty lethal.

While I do believe that, it would change a lot for the second 3-peat years. We would never get Rodman if we had Horance Grant and with Jordan on the team we wouldn't get Ron Harper. That's a feeling I have and he was very important defending Payton, Miller, Stockton and other guys during the second 3-peat. With Harper not there, I doubt that the Bulls would have gone small with Grant in the 5 position, mainly because those were the positions were we would have more depth (assuming that they don't leave while we are winning). On the other hand, we could have gone big as I said above.

[jc23]

found on the gb:

Read on Twitter

[MadGrinch]

Some things about the last dance on the whole
Jordan having an editing say colors the whole production.
Pippen , his impact and his struggles are minimized here , no one mentions his migraine game comes within 2 weeks of his father's death , nor the fact that Pippen basically forced Daly into benching Rodman in the 91 series for game 4 and dennis only played 15 minutes...and in those 15 minutes he managed that cheap shot on Scottie.
Some people are weirdly absent or have a very small role Luc Longley is missing despite being the starting center for the 2nd 3peat but Will Purdue who wasn't even on the team for the 2nd 3peat is there and had a small role in the 1st 3 peat is there ..a lot.
Scott Burrell has a much larger role in this documentary than role on the team in that 1 season and his playing time suggest he should.

it just feels like the documentary was done in a fashion that was artistically compromised, but still interesting viewing though.

[Chewie]

Some things about the last dance on the whole
Jordan having an editing say colors the whole production.
Pippen , his impact and his struggles are minimized here , no one mentions his migraine game comes within 2 weeks of his father's death , nor the fact that Pippen basically forced Daly into benching Rodman in the 91 series for game 4 and dennis only played 15 minutes...and in those 15 minutes he managed that cheap shot on Scottie.
Some people are weirdly absent or have a very small role Luc Longley is missing despite being the starting center for the 2nd 3peat but Will Purdue who wasn't even on the team for the 2nd 3peat is there and had a small role in the 1st 3 peat is there ..a lot.
Scott Burrell has a much larger role in this documentary than role on the team in that 1 season and his playing time suggest he should.

it just feels like the documentary was done in a fashion that was artistically compromised, but still interesting viewing though.

Oh God yes. When they got into the Seattle Finals I was like - here we go, they will at least touch on the Rodman/Brickowski sub-plot which I thought would be interesting but...nothing. It had nothing to do with Jordan so it gets no play. Oh well.

[FriedRise]

If I knew nothing about Scottie Pippen and this documentary is the first time I'm learning about him, I'd think he's salty crybaby and a quitter.

The three biggest points that unfortunately are sticking about him:
1) pouting over the long term contract that he signed
2) delaying his surgery so he can get back at Bulls management
3) the 1.8 second game when he quit on the team

[JohnnyTapwater]

I love this documentary so much.

You get a front row seat of what it takes to be great.

You can see the difference between great and champion. I love it.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

I felt like there a couple of dramatic events that were missed.

They skipped the Phantom Foul altogether.

Horace Grant's departure was glossed over, there was drama surrounding that that they could've gotten into.

[otwok]

Some things about the last dance on the whole
Jordan having an editing say colors the whole production.

I hear this but what did people expect? This wasn't going to get done without Michael Jordan's go ahead. This isn't some third party investigative journalistic piece. This is essentially a documentary on how great Jordan and to a smaller extend the Bulls were because of Jordan. It's no different than the documentary on the NWA, on Allen Iverson or any other celebrity figure.

It's purely for entertainment and nostalgia not really for some knowledge that nobody knew (unless you were born after 1999).

[Big Pippen]

If I knew nothing about Scottie Pippen and this documentary is the first time I'm learning about him, I'd think he's salty crybaby and a quitter.

The three biggest points that unfortunately are sticking about him:
1) pouting over the long term contract that he signed
2) delaying his surgery so he can get back at Bulls management
3) the 1.8 second game when he quit on the team

This is exactly what is so fascinating about Scottie Pippen, my favorite player of all time. He is the exact opposite of how he plays. On the court, he is smooth, selfless, versatile, and underrated. Off the court, he is awkward, selfish, petty, and prideful.

[wickywack]

If I knew nothing about Scottie Pippen and this documentary is the first time I'm learning about him, I'd think he's salty crybaby and a quitter.

The three biggest points that unfortunately are sticking about him:
1) pouting over the long term contract that he signed
2) delaying his surgery so he can get back at Bulls management
3) the 1.8 second game when he quit on the team

This is exactly what is so fascinating about Scottie Pippen, my favorite player of all time. He is the exact opposite of how he plays. On the court, he is smooth, selfless, versatile, and underrated. Off the court, he is awkward, selfish, petty, and prideful.

I always found Pippen to be very relatable and inspiring in a way Jordan wasn't. Pippen had very human foibles and persevered in spite of them. I loved Mike, but there was always something inhuman about him. Jordan was just wired differently.

The doc covers all those times Pippen "fell down" figuratively. Unfortunately, it doesn't (so far) talk about all those times he just "got back up". E.g.,:

- Migraine in 90 => outstanding in 91 playoffs
- Beat up by the Knicks in 92 playoffs => kills them in 93
- 1.8 seconds => nearly leads the Bulls past the Knicks over the next 4 games
- Sits out the first half of 97/98 => plays his heart (and back) out the rest of the way
- Implodes in Houston in 99 => nearly leads the Blazers to the finals in 2000

[Big Pippen]

Those are all great examples. Pip had a lot of ups and downs, and those were relatable to most of us. I think the other thing that I always loved about Pip was the late bloomer thing. Small school, to the NBA, to star, to legend. There are a lot of late bloomers that identify with Pip's growth curve.

Also, and I love the guy, but put him on the Mount Rushmore of "terrible Chicago product spokesmen." Left to right: Empire Carpet guy, Scottie Pippen, Victory Auto Wreckers, Celozzi Ettleson Chevrolet