ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion

[Swish1906]

Why i have to read all the Lebron BS by one user in the last dance thread?

[Hogified05]

I gotta say one thing that is becoming clear form this documentary is Jordan's parents were aces. Great people. So crappy what happen to his dad.

Michael’s sister, Deloris, wrote a book where she says her father took her virginity and when she told her mom (when she was 16) she said she was going to send her away to a school.

Also claimed James Jordan beat her mom. Knocked her out cold.

There’s a quick clip of it in one of the earlier episodes where James tells Michael to “go inside with the rest of the women”. Supposedly James put down Michael, his youngest son, a lot.

She said that’s where his insane drive comes from. It’s not just trying to please his dad. It’s saying “**** you, you were wrong!” as well.
Honestly I’m more inclined to believe the parents were abusive. Someone like MJ isn’t born from normal circumstances. He’s not normal and probably has MAJOR mental issues. Just happens that those mental issues are what made him so great. Killer instinct. Ridiculous drive. Never felt pressure. And not afraid to say anything to anyone.

Jesus. First I ever heard of this. Seems like something like that would have gained traction and be widely known if true. Or if I was MJ I would have disowned my father. Something is off about that. I mean that is some wild accusations. It is weird his sisters arent in the doc. At the same time as rich and famous as MJ is there is motivation there. I don't get that inclination his father would do that at all or his mother would do that either. Fascinating. All I can tell you is they both come off well in the documentary specially his mom. If that's true sheesh though.

[evilpimp972]

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[Air Apparent]

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[Pennebaker]

Jordan's legacy is going to take a major hit over him being a bully.

This series has made it clear that Michael Jordan was an archetypal bully - no different than those found in middle school. He targeted and victimized people and they could only get him to stop if they put their foot down and stood up to him.



Steve Kerr:

“I knew that if we were in an actual fight he could actually probably kill me if he wanted to. It was more just I’m going to stand up for myself.”

Jordan's repugnant response:

"He earned my respect. He wasn’t willing to back down to be a pawn in this whole process.”

Ew.



For a long time Jordan’s bullying had been justified as some offshoot of an extreme desire to win championships, presented as a kind of twisted motivational tool used specifically for basketball, but we know now that he was also a vicious bully off the court so that excuse doesn't pass scrutiny.

For example, we already know about one rapper’s account of Jordan bullying him in a social setting, but The Last Dance is also full of examples of Jordan bullying Jerry Krause, who he belittled for being short and overweight whenever they crossed paths - Jordan cackling at Krause as he scurried by with his head lowered.

Flashbacks to school hallways for many, I’m sure.



Bullying is considered an epidemic in our society - sports bullying is especially problematic - and the public is becoming more aware and less tolerant of toxic behaviors.

Unfortunately some adults today still continue to excuse and praise MJ's behavior (even while raising their own children to shun bullying), but I'm afraid future generations will be less forgiving.

Jordan's approach (and his excuses) will likely be condemned as immature, low IQ, archaic, somewhat barbaric and entirely unnecessary in order to be a hypercompetitive winner.

[Repeat 3-peat]

[Petergrifindor]

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[jc23]

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I knew this was coming and its just as good as my imagination thought it would be. The timing of lebron saying "greatest team ever assembled" and MJ's reaction to it was perfect and garnered the loudest laugh from me.

lebron can be so corny sometimes

[jc23]

Jordan's legacy is going to take a major hit over him being a bully.

too bad this is something that cant be quantified because this is an easy win in terms of an avatar bet. television and social media circles have already confirmed the majority of peoples reaction to Jordan and this doc. Not to say people dont hold your same view but some people dont like ice cream so...

[HurdyGurdyMan]

In this current isolation state, I have been watching pretty much every HOF speech and it's crazy how almost all of his peers acknowledge Jordan.

In all honesty, is there anyone in 10 years who is even going to mention or address LBJ in the same way? Nowitzki will probably cherish the battles with the Spurs and Lakers, Duncan (who went a last-minute Ray Allen heroic from sweeping the supposed goat in the finals) will probably do the same. Steph? sure, he lost a final to him but the Warriors were always the clear cut favourites.
LBJ may have been to the finals 9 times (impressive achievement) but in how many was he really the guy to beat? the obstacle?

Truth is - Lebron is an amazing player but he's not even unanimously recognised as the most dominant or influential player in HIS era. Let alone all time.

[Air Apparent]

brons contemporaries revere him more for his business mindset with his crew with mav carter and rich paul etc, not that there isnt respect and players who dont think he's the best, but it's not the same level as mj, jordan is an all-time goat, bron is a current generational goat

[HurdyGurdyMan]

brons contemporaries revere him more for his business mindset with his crew with mav carter and rich paul etc, not that there isnt respect and players who dont think he's the best, but it's not the same level as mj, jordan is an all-time goat, bron is a current generational goat

and yet the LeBron brand is not much. Hells I am an NBA fan and even I couldn't say if his namesake shoe has a logo of any kind.
They tried marketing him as the chosen one from the start but he never really managed to break the screen of global, trans-cultural fame. Let's see if the forced remake of Space Jam improves the situation but I have a feeling it'll bust.

[Pennebaker]

Jordan in Episode 7 on bullying Scott Burrell:

“I tried to fight him a couple of times just to get a ‘hey man I’m tired of you picking on me’ type of mentality, but he was too nice.”

Cancelled.

“Hey, Scott Burrell where’s your mouth at now, h-?”

Cancelled.

“You better do something right. Make this free throw, h-.”

Cancelled.

“My mentality was to go out and win. At any cost.”

Cancelled.

“If you don’t want to live that regimented mentality then you don’t have to be alongside of me [thank god it wasn’t compulsory!] because I’m going to ridicule you until you get on the same level with me.”

Cancelled.

“If you don’t get on the same level then it’s going to be hell for you.”

Cancelled.



“Teammates were afraid of him. There was fear.”

Cancelled.

“The fear factor of MJ was so thick.”

Cancelled.

“Let’s not get it wrong, he was an a—hole. He was a jerk. He crossed the line numerous times.”

Cancelled.



“But he was pushing us all to be better because he wanted to win.”

NOPE. Doesn’t justify it. Still cancelled.

“We kinda needed that.”

Actually you didn’t. Still cancelled.

“It worked.”

Maybe the most dangerous comment about Jordan’s bullying - to relate it to success. Still very much cancelled.

“Scott's got a great personality, he took it like a man.”

Took it like a man!? Major red flag. Absolutely still cancelled.



Jordan's behavior when he did the bullying was bad enough but this series trying to justify it and relate it to success really angers me.

It's so counterproductive in our fight against the bullying epidemic in schools, sports, communities, workplaces and even in homes.

It's almost unbelievable that they released this.

[Sgt Major]

Jordanesque bullying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Taco Tuesday & being friends with everyone

Sports should be war, not kindergarten.

[King4Day]

Jordanesque bullying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Taco Tuesday & being friends with everyone

Sports should be war, not kindergarten.

Very well said.

IMO, MJ's goal was to make everyone take things as serious as he did. He knew they wouldn't be as talented but he wanted them to be on his level mentally about this not being a joke. Take practice seriously, play hard, don't do anything that will compromise the team.

[King4Day]

I loved the end where he was crying on the floor. I never saw that, nor knew the backstory behind it.

[TwoStarz]

Jordanesque bullying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Taco Tuesday & being friends with everyone

Sports should be war, not kindergarten.

You forgot this...Lebron's way is being passive aggressive. I rather a bully that says it to my face than a B. No one respects B's

[twyzted]

Jordan in Episode 7 on bullying Scott Burrell:

“I tried to fight him a couple of times just to get a ‘hey man I’m tired of you picking on me’ type of mentality, but he was too nice.”

Cancelled.

“Hey, Scott Burrell where’s your mouth at now, h-?”

Cancelled.

“You better do something right. Make this free throw, h-.”

Cancelled.

“My mentality was to go out and win. At any cost.”

Cancelled.

“If you don’t want to live that regimented mentality then you don’t have to be alongside of me [thank god it wasn’t compulsory!] because I’m going to ridicule you until you get on the same level with me.”

Cancelled.

“If you don’t get on the same level then it’s going to be hell for you.”

Cancelled.



“Teammates were afraid of him. There was fear.”

Cancelled.

“The fear factor of MJ was so thick.”

Cancelled.

“Let’s not get it wrong, he was an a—hole. He was a jerk. He crossed the line numerous times.”

Cancelled.



“But he was pushing us all to be better because he wanted to win.”

NOPE. Doesn’t justify it. Still cancelled.

“We kinda needed that.”

Actually you didn’t. Still cancelled.

“It worked.”

Maybe the most dangerous comment about Jordan’s bullying - to relate it to success. Still very much cancelled.

“Scott's got a great personality, he took it like a man.”

Took it like a man!? Major red flag. Absolutely still cancelled.



Jordan's behavior when he did the bullying was bad enough but this series trying to justify it and relate it to success really angers me.

It's so counterproductive in our fight against the bullying epidemic in schools, sports, communities, workplaces and even in homes.

It's almost unbelievable that they released this.

So he should just let the guys slack off while he was working hard? Have you worked with people who are lazy workers?

I took it as they were explaining this is how he was no excuses no sugar coating.
Some lead by example, some by pushing people etc every person is different.

[HurdyGurdyMan]

LeBron tweets passive-aggressively. Also mocks an opposite player for having the flu (and gets his ass kicked in the process)

https://sports.yahoo.com/kevin-love-calls-lebron-james-160001095.html

If you complain about Jordan's bullying you have never really played a minute of team sports in your life.

[LKN]

The desperation is getting more and more pathetic. Are we seriously comparing MJ being hard on other freaking millionaire basketball players to grade school bullying? GTFO.

By 1996 even guys like Bill Wennington, Randy Brown and Dickey Simpkins were making close to 1 million per year.

The fact is - MJ made a lot of those guys a lot more money than then would have made anywhere else. Even Bulls bench warmers were getting endorsement deals.

You think Bill Wennington gets his own McDonald's sandwich if he spent 96-98 on the Milwaukee Bucks?

No one forced these guys to play professional basketball - if they couldn't handle MJ being hard on them for a few years and making them a bunch more money in the process they should have found something else to do.