2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[robillionaire]

My gut feeling is that Anthony Edwards is going to be a disappointment and if he goes #1, it'll be major.

well, he was somewhat of a disappointment at georgia. went from consensus #1 pick to.. still in the conversation for #1 but arguably could take several players over him. he did show some nice flashes of talent though. percentages and advanced stats not too great. I still think he'll have a solid career but maybe not live up to the kind of hype and expectations that goes with being picked #1

Absolutely, I'm just as bad. Been going from Obi Toppin to drafting 3 point guards no matter what. Having said that, last night while having problems falling to sleep my mind was on the draft (not a bad option, if the mind is not restful jj).

What I was contemplating was, what gives a player All-Pro status? To me, in order to reach that level a player HAS to have no less that 2 ELITE talents. Now these ELITE talents can include but limited to:
- ELITE athletic aggression, combined with ELITE techniques, think Mike Tyson, Ray Lewis, Kobe, Lebron
- ELITE handle, combined with ELITE shooting, Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving.
- ELITE vision for passing visionand ELITE knowledge of the game, Lebron,Tom Brady.
- ELITE athletic aggression, ELITE defense, Dick Butkus, Ronnie Lott, Michael.
- ELITE clutch gene, ELITE knowledge of the game, Michael, Lebron, Steph, Brady, Ali
- Elite quickness, technique, clutch,, Ali, Brady, Michael, Kobe

As a few examples. Some players can ONLY be in GOAT conversation if they posses more than 2. Michael Jordan, Lebron, Magic and few others had that. While some like Reggie Miller/Ray Allen/Pistol Maravich/Dan Marino had ELITE talents, but didn't have more than 3 ELITE traits, hence not in the GOAT conversation.


On the current Knicks, while still developing:
Frank has ELITE defensive skills but nothing else.
Mitch has ELITE athleticsm but lost his ELITE timing from his rookie season.
RJ has ELITE athletic agression, but nothing else.

In this draft, to me, only 3 players have ELITE anything;
Obi Toppin has ELITE athletic aggression but that's it for now.
LaMelo has ELITE passing vision but his handle is unknown.
Saddiq Bey has ELITE 3pt shooting but that's it.

Who else has ELITE anything? Remember it has to be standout against competition (WIseman is out of consideration because of this).

Lamelo has elite handle, could dump a truckload of articles using that word to describe it but I’ll opt for this one from our Spencer Pearlman, just read the first 4 words of the report

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/01/23/lamelo-ball-scouting-report-2/

The rest of the league is going to need to take out ankle insurance

[robillionaire]

I would say we need to bring at least one proven (against nba defenses) elite shooter on this team if not two. Via free agency or trade. Ideally a stretch 4 and a 2/3. We may need to overpay but there are certainly some out there on the block

[Zenzibar]

well, he was somewhat of a disappointment at georgia. went from consensus #1 pick to.. still in the conversation for #1 but arguably could take several players over him. he did show some nice flashes of talent though. percentages and advanced stats not too great. I still think he'll have a solid career but maybe not live up to the kind of hype and expectations that goes with being picked #1

Absolutely, I'm just as bad. Been going from Obi Toppin to drafting 3 point guards no matter what. Having said that, last night while having problems falling to sleep my mind was on the draft (not a bad option, if the mind is not restful jj).

What I was contemplating was, what gives a player All-Pro status? To me, in order to reach that level a player HAS to have no less that 2 ELITE talents. Now these ELITE talents can include but limited to:
- ELITE athletic aggression, combined with ELITE techniques, think Mike Tyson, Ray Lewis, Kobe, Lebron
- ELITE handle, combined with ELITE shooting, Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving.
- ELITE vision for passing visionand ELITE knowledge of the game, Lebron,Tom Brady.
- ELITE athletic aggression, ELITE defense, Dick Butkus, Ronnie Lott, Michael.
- ELITE clutch gene, ELITE knowledge of the game, Michael, Lebron, Steph, Brady, Ali
- Elite quickness, technique, clutch,, Ali, Brady, Michael, Kobe

As a few examples. Some players can ONLY be in GOAT conversation if they posses more than 2. Michael Jordan, Lebron, Magic and few others had that. While some like Reggie Miller/Ray Allen/Pistol Maravich/Dan Marino had ELITE talents, but didn't have more than 3 ELITE traits, hence not in the GOAT conversation.


On the current Knicks, while still developing:
Frank has ELITE defensive skills but nothing else.
Mitch has ELITE athleticsm but lost his ELITE timing from his rookie season.
RJ has ELITE athletic agression, but nothing else.

In this draft, to me, only 3 players have ELITE anything;
Obi Toppin has ELITE athletic aggression but that's it for now.
LaMelo has ELITE passing vision but his handle is unknown.
Saddiq Bey has ELITE 3pt shooting but that's it.

Who else has ELITE anything? Remember it has to be standout against competition (WIseman is out of consideration because of this).

Lamelo has elite handle, could dump a truckload of articles using that word to describe it but I’ll opt for this one from our Spencer Pearlman, just read the first 4 words of the report

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/01/23/lamelo-ball-scouting-report-2/

The rest of the league is going to need to take out ankle insurance

Ah ok. So you see, the only player in this draft that has 2 ELITE traits is LaMelo, albiet young traits and unproven at the next level.

What other players in this draft has a combination of 2 ELITE traits? Last year, ZION has ELITE athletic, ELITE aggression and ELITE defense, hence generational. JA had ELITE handle and ELITE passing vision.

LaMelo and mayyyyybe Obi (ELITE aggression, ELITE athletic),,,,,,,then the rest.

[Zenzibar]

I would say we need to bring at least one proven (against nba defenses) elite shooter on this team if not two. Via free agency or trade. Ideally a stretch 4 and a 2/3. We may need to overpay but there are certainly some out there on the block

VanFleet? ELITE clutch gene, but not an All-Pro ELITE anything else.

[robillionaire]

Absolutely, I'm just as bad. Been going from Obi Toppin to drafting 3 point guards no matter what. Having said that, last night while having problems falling to sleep my mind was on the draft (not a bad option, if the mind is not restful jj).

What I was contemplating was, what gives a player All-Pro status? To me, in order to reach that level a player HAS to have no less that 2 ELITE talents. Now these ELITE talents can include but limited to:
- ELITE athletic aggression, combined with ELITE techniques, think Mike Tyson, Ray Lewis, Kobe, Lebron
- ELITE handle, combined with ELITE shooting, Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving.
- ELITE vision for passing visionand ELITE knowledge of the game, Lebron,Tom Brady.
- ELITE athletic aggression, ELITE defense, Dick Butkus, Ronnie Lott, Michael.
- ELITE clutch gene, ELITE knowledge of the game, Michael, Lebron, Steph, Brady, Ali
- Elite quickness, technique, clutch,, Ali, Brady, Michael, Kobe

As a few examples. Some players can ONLY be in GOAT conversation if they posses more than 2. Michael Jordan, Lebron, Magic and few others had that. While some like Reggie Miller/Ray Allen/Pistol Maravich/Dan Marino had ELITE talents, but didn't have more than 3 ELITE traits, hence not in the GOAT conversation.


On the current Knicks, while still developing:
Frank has ELITE defensive skills but nothing else.
Mitch has ELITE athleticsm but lost his ELITE timing from his rookie season.
RJ has ELITE athletic agression, but nothing else.

In this draft, to me, only 3 players have ELITE anything;
Obi Toppin has ELITE athletic aggression but that's it for now.
LaMelo has ELITE passing vision but his handle is unknown.
Saddiq Bey has ELITE 3pt shooting but that's it.

Who else has ELITE anything? Remember it has to be standout against competition (WIseman is out of consideration because of this).

Lamelo has elite handle, could dump a truckload of articles using that word to describe it but I’ll opt for this one from our Spencer Pearlman, just read the first 4 words of the report

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/01/23/lamelo-ball-scouting-report-2/

The rest of the league is going to need to take out ankle insurance

Ah ok. So you see, the only player in this draft that has 2 ELITE traits is LaMelo, albiet young traits and unproven at the next level.

What other players in this draft has a combination of 2 ELITE traits? Last year, ZION has ELITE athletic, ELITE aggression and ELITE defense, hence generational. JA had ELITE handle and ELITE passing vision.

LaMelo and mayyyyybe Obi (ELITE aggression, ELITE athletic),,,,,,,then the rest.

Ja had some crazy explosiveness too. But yeah point made, very few high level abilities and a lot of unknowns

[3toheadmelo]

[mpharris36]

My gut feeling is that Anthony Edwards is going to be a disappointment and if he goes #1, it'll be major.

I haven't been more unsure about a draft class in years. I wake up one day hoping for one guy and then settle on another later in the day. There isn't one sure fire lock in this draft class.

I lowered my expectations and it’s made my opinion of this class better.

LaMelo Ball,Tyrese Haliburton, Killian Hayes, Cole Anthony, Devin Vessell, Saddiq Bey, Kira Lewis, Jadmi’us Ramsey, Obi Toppin, James Wiseman, Aaron Nesmith, Jalen Smith, Anthony Edwards, Onyeka Okongwu, Isaac Okoro, Deni Avdija and Patrick Williams

I think the above 17 would be first rounders in a stronger class. There is probably a few more. So let’s say 20 in total. If you compared those names to names of people drafted in other classes 10-30. You would say these kids are likely better

So I don’t think the class is weak overall, it’s just weak in that the top prospects don’t compare well to other classes top prospects. It doesn’t mean a few stars are not in the cut. In fact I would say outside of last’s years top 3 this class is deeper and better.

Yes, let me state I don't think the class is overall weak. I think it lacks stand alone talent and a lot of top guys in this class due to playing overseas or playing a shorten college season we have not as much tape and scouting on them to distinguish who's better.

I think there is talent in this draft I just think there isn't a lot of distinguishable talent. Especially form the above names you mentioned I like most if not all those names. The question comes on draft night what seperates those guys from the rest of the back. Because there are + and - for each of those guys above.

More so then most classes they is a bit more parity in this class...but it could make for some difficult decisions on draft night...

[mpharris36]

Haliburton is a winning player but will suffer in the half-court.

LaMelo moves on the court like a Queen on a chess board.

You know i'm lock-step with you my guy.

Knicks have to pray that either they move up or a team who doesn't need a lead guard lands at number 1. Finally make a move up in the draft and get their man Lamelo. The shot in the arm this team and this city needs.

It depends on what they want. No LaMelo isn’t worth a future knicks pick, nor do I think he’s worth the Mavs 2021 pick, or the Knicks taking Wiggins contract. He’s really good, I don’t think he is Luka Doncic change your franchise good.

He isn't which is why absolutely no Knicks future 1st rounders should be on the table if they want to move up.

[robillionaire]

He’s gonna be good

[Zenzibar]

Spud Webb says "so what"

[sol537]

Gimme Jerami Grant + either Haliburton or Hayes + a 3&d shooter in the late draft + a Randle dump and I'm good. Real good.

[3toheadmelo]

Spud Webb says "so what"

[Zenzibar]

Spud Webb says "so what"

[Deeeez Knicks]

Mitch would send that weak attempt into the bleachers

[DaGawd]

A lot of "weak" drafts end up being pretty damn good in hindsight. One of the reasons I'm not that down on this class..but I will say it's harder to see the few who might bloom later from what we have on these guys so far

[HarthorneWingo]

But see how low he's bringing the ball down? Makes it so easy for a anyone to just swipe it away. That's a major flaw.

[HarthorneWingo]

Spud Webb says "so what"

[3toheadmelo]

Mitch would send that weak attempt into the bleachers

[3toheadmelo]

But see how low he's bringing the ball down? Makes it so easy for a anyone to just swipe it away. That's a major flaw.

[3toheadmelo]

Usually when this board overwhelmingly hates a player they turn out very good. Wiseman is next!