2019-2020 College BBall/2020 NBA Draft Vol 1

Kobblehead · Post #541 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed May 13, 2020 3:24 pm

Does Saben Lee create enough separation on the ball? Just an observation that occurred to me watching more of his highlights. Even when he makes a winning movement and gains an angle, the defender doesn't get washed out of the play. He sags pretty closely to him. Obviously he's vertically explosive, but I wonder how laterally quick he actually is.

Negrodamus · Post #542 » by **Negrodamus** » Wed May 13, 2020 3:36 pm

Kobblehead wrote:Does Saben Lee create enough separation on the ball? Just an observation that occurred to me watching more of his highlights. Even when he makes a winning movement and gains an angle, the defender doesn't get washed out of the play. He sags pretty closely to him. Obviously he's vertically explosive, but I wonder how laterally quick he actually is.

Yea, he's not a De'Aaron Fox level athlete but I do feel that once he gets a step, he's better than most guards at drawing contact and finishing through. Has a stronger feel to his game than the quicker guards. I also feel like he has excelled at the pump fake and manipulating his way to the bucket. Seems pretty long (likely 6'8+ wingspan).

My main question has been: if he's 6'2, can he play point guard? Seems like his vision is OK. I've always been impressed with his offensive arsenal, but he clearly doesn't give a **** about defense which is obviously concerning. Very much a gambler. That wouldn't fly on this team.

He and Fitts are feeling more like second rounders that could be steals if they commit to building on their game.

Negrodamus · Post #543 » by **Negrodamus** » Wed May 13, 2020 4:07 pm

Also, I'm starting to become a huge Elleby stan. There are things that need work, like tightening up that jumpshot, but he brings it on both ends.

Kobblehead · Post #544 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed May 13, 2020 4:16 pm

Yeah, Elleby is real solid. Decent creator in the halfcourt and fantastic team defender.

I'm not sure why his stock hasn't gotten the same treatment as Jarrett Culver's did from last year. Very similar prospects. Culver a little better defender, Elleby a little better creator.

Kobblehead · Post #545 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed May 13, 2020 4:20 pm

I'm not sure what junior guard I'd get behind between Saben Lee, Malachi Flynn, and Alonzo Verge. I don't love any of the three. I'd probably just hope we got our hands on Tre Jones in the Top 40.

Negrodamus · Post #546 » by **Negrodamus** » Wed May 13, 2020 4:26 pm

I think I just like how crazy Elleby plays. He clearly hasn't seen a shot he doesn't like. With him being only 19 (20 in June), I feel like there's a lot of growth in his game and literally in his build. He already has the killer offensive mentality.

Monix · Post #547 » by **Monix** » Wed May 13, 2020 4:37 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Yea, he's not a De'Aaron Fox level athlete but I do feel that once he gets a step, he's better than most guards at drawing contact and finishing through. Has a stronger feel to his game than the quicker guards. I also feel like he has excelled at the pump fake and manipulating his way to the bucket. Seems pretty long (likely 6'8+ wingspan).

My main question has been: if he's 6'2, can he play point guard? Seems like his vision is OK. I've always been impressed with his offensive arsenal, but he clearly doesn't give a **** about defense which is obviously concerning. Very much a gambler. That wouldn't fly on this team.

He and Fitts are feeling more like second rounders that could be steals if they commit to building on their game.

I like Lee's ability with the ball, ideally would get him in the 2nd on a 2-way and have him play primarily in DE for a year

Monix · Post #548 » by **Monix** » Wed May 13, 2020 4:43 pm

Negrodamus wrote:Also, I'm starting to become a huge Elleby stan. There are things that need work, like tightening up that jumpshot, but he brings it on both ends.

Wasn't familiar with Elleby so I read some stuff and watched a little - I don't see it with this guy, seems under-athletic for his size and not sure I believe in the shot

Kobblehead · Post #549 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed May 13, 2020 4:51 pm

I wish Lee was either more dynamic on the ball or more stout defensively. As it stands now, he's kinda in that middle ground of not being either. That's a tough projection for me.

I'd much rather just take a late bloomer college player like Skylar Mays or Trent Forrest. Far more dynamic ball handlers with strong defensive profiles.

Kobblehead · Post #550 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed May 13, 2020 4:56 pm

Monix wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Also, I'm starting to become a huge Elleby stan. There are things that need work, like tightening up that jumpshot, but he brings it on both ends.

Wasn't familiar with Elleby so I read some stuff and watched a little - I don't see it with this guy, seems under-athletic for his size and not sure I believe in the shot

Seems like a pretty safe bet to have a Josh Richardson-like career.

10-15 ppg guy with decent team defense and low-to-mid 30s three point shooting. Not a franchise guy or anything, but worthy of being on the floor in a playoff rotation.

Negrodamus · Post #551 » by **Negrodamus** » Wed May 13, 2020 5:00 pm

Monix wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Also, I'm starting to become a huge Elleby stan. There are things that need work, like tightening up that jumpshot, but he brings it on both ends.

Wasn't familiar with Elleby so I read some stuff and watched a little - I don't see it with this guy, seems under-athletic for his size and not sure I believe in the shot

I think his athleticism is fine, I don't think he needs to be a high flyer. He does need to be better at finishing at the rim and getting to the line, but I'll reiterate that he needs to add muscle to his frame.

His shot is a little wonky, but I think that can be adjusted. It's not as brutal as Ball, but motion needs tightening. That said, he gets the ball off quickly while hitting 80+% from free throw on a 30% FTr. I can't complain too much about his shot.

What is most impressive is his footwork. His jab step gives defenders a lot of trouble. On top of that, he's capable of moves like this:

Read on Twitter

I don't think there are many prospects in this draft that have the full arsenal of offensive moves from the perimeter. Add in the comfort to hit the step back three and you have a guy who could develop into a great scorer at the next level.

I'm wondering what his wingspan and hand size is. He tends to dunk with two hands and has a competent, but sometimes loose, handle.

At our range in the first round, I'd draft him based on what he can potentially become, inefficiencies and all. Hell, he's only 19 right now, he could even grow an inch.

Monix · Post #552 » by **Monix** » Wed May 13, 2020 6:05 pm

I think the 2nd round is going to be really hard to predict given the way that last year shook out.

Guys are going to see how Terrance Davis was able to manipulate his landing spot by refusing to sign 2-way deals or lengthy un-guaranteed deals as a way to choose which teams they try to make during the summer (or whenever the COVID equivalent is...)

Negrodamus · Post #553 » by **Negrodamus** » Wed May 13, 2020 8:52 pm

Monix wrote:I think the 2nd round is going to be really hard to predict given the way that last year shook out.

Guys are going to see how Terrance Davis was able to manipulate his landing spot by refusing to sign 2-way deals or lengthy un-guaranteed deals as a way to choose which teams they try to make during the summer (or whenever the COVID equivalent is...)

It might factor in, but there aren't any Terence Davis's in this draft. It's honestly absurd he didn't go in the first to me. Prospects would likely make a huge mistake if they try to pull the same thing.

Kobblehead · Post #554 » by **Kobblehead** » Wed May 13, 2020 9:05 pm

Once the top 40 passes, I think college players are going have a hard time getting drafted this year. I expect record amounts of international stashes.

Monix · Post #555 » by **Monix** » Wed May 13, 2020 11:15 pm

Negrodamus wrote:It might factor in, but there aren't any Terence Davis's in this draft. It's honestly absurd he didn't go in the first to me. Prospects would likely make a huge mistake if they try to pull the same thing.

well, as we know from following the draft process, correctly assessing their own talent and making sound decisions are not typically underlying themes

Kobblehead · Post #556 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri May 15, 2020 2:11 pm

The "testing the waters" guys had their withdraw deadline deferred to a later date.

When is this draft even projected to take place? Like October or something?

Negrodamus · Post #557 » by **Negrodamus** » Fri May 15, 2020 11:37 pm

I think I’ve distilled my final must have picks in our areas of the draft to be CJ Elleby and Trent Forrest. I feel like Elleby has a decent amount of untapped potential at only 19. Forrest has everything other than consistent perimeter scoring. His FT% suggests that he’s not a lost cause in that regard. Both can defend multiple positions and can create. In a draft that is pretty horrible, these are the guys I’d take a chance on and give roster spots.

Kobblehead · Post #558 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat May 16, 2020 1:03 am

Give me whichever one of Josh Green, Tre Jones, Tyrese Haliburton or Devin Vassell is still on the board when we're picking. But man, this is the year to trade up. Arguably the two best players (Killian Hayes and R.J. Hampton) in the entire draft are being mocked in the back half of the lottery. Time to land a franchise-altering prospect.

Kobblehead · Post #559 » by **Kobblehead** » Sat May 16, 2020 7:34 pm

Watch on YouTube

So much Mike Conley to his game. Complete guard.

No-Man · Post #560 » by **No-Man** » Sun May 17, 2020 10:46 am

I think I'd be all over moving your 1st (OKC's), Zhaire and Horford for someone (maybe the Kings take that for Hield for example) then take value picks in the 2nd (good players are going to slide til there)