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2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#781 » by RHODEY » Wed May 13, 2020 11:46 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:idk i think Hayes is kind of a project. Doesn't have a right hand and needs to become more athletic. He's like super young and his body is still developing. You have to hope he gets faster cuz having a back court with average athleticism could become a problem. At least Frank just showed us that you develop athletically so it makes me more optimistic about Hayes.


Do you think he Is any more of a project than Ball - because of his poor shot IQ and his lack of defensive mindset?

or Haliburton because his lack of offensive versatility, refined handle, and slight build?

or Cole due to his poor passing/play making and bad shot IQ?

I'm not sure Killian any less ready than they are. I might argue the opposite since eye test shows he is a crafty heady player.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#782 » by robillionaire » Thu May 14, 2020 12:07 am

RHODEY wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:idk i think Hayes is kind of a project. Doesn't have a right hand and needs to become more athletic. He's like super young and his body is still developing. You have to hope he gets faster cuz having a back court with average athleticism could become a problem. At least Frank just showed us that you develop athletically so it makes me more optimistic about Hayes.


Do you think he Is any more of a project than Ball - because of his poor shot IQ and his lack of defensive mindset?

or Haliburton because his lack of offensive versatility, refined handle, and slight build?

or Cole due to his poor passing/play making and bad shot IQ?

I'm not sure Killian any less ready than they are. I might argue the opposite since eye test shows he is a crafty heady player.


I don't see "project" as an insult I see it more as a young player with a lot of potential who may need extended time to fully develop some skills. Basically they have a lot of upside

killian is 18 and playing in europe on a small stage, asking him to come and start at PG for the knicks in MSG and expecting him to be great from day 1 is a big ask. Not to say he can't. Ball will take time too but he's been in the spotlight his whole life so might be able to handle the one in NY a little faster. Any 18 year old you draft is probably going to need at least 1 year if not more to get their feet wet. Sometimes they don't make a big jump until year 2 3 or even 4.

Cole and Haliburton are in their 20s, they may be more prepared mentally for the role early on at least, but not as high of a ceiling

We're still going to be bad next year no matter what but hopefully we finally start to see progress and build on it
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#783 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Thu May 14, 2020 12:42 am

RHODEY wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:idk i think Hayes is kind of a project. Doesn't have a right hand and needs to become more athletic. He's like super young and his body is still developing. You have to hope he gets faster cuz having a back court with average athleticism could become a problem. At least Frank just showed us that you develop athletically so it makes me more optimistic about Hayes.


Do you think he Is any more of a project than Ball - because of his poor shot IQ and his lack of defensive mindset?

or Haliburton because his lack of offensive versatility, refined handle, and slight build?

or Cole due to his poor passing/play making and bad shot IQ?

I'm not sure Killian any less ready than they are. I might argue the opposite since eye test shows he is a crafty heady player.



The short answer is yes, I just think he's the rawest skillset of the 4. That 20 min highlight reel doesn't have a single highlight of him attacking and finishing with his right hand. It's one thing to be less efficient with your off hand but his nonexistent. I don't really worry about other's doing basic basketball stuff like dribbling.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#784 » by TheGreenArrow » Thu May 14, 2020 12:49 am

I can’t believe people still are doubting LaMelo as the top prospect in this draft.

It’s truly comical.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#785 » by HEZI » Thu May 14, 2020 1:12 am

Hayes is a raw project and won't be making any real impact in the NBA for a while
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#786 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu May 14, 2020 1:13 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#787 » by RHODEY » Thu May 14, 2020 1:23 am

HEZI wrote:Hayes is a raw project and won't be making any real impact in the NBA for a while
8-)
Hayes is the most complete PG in the draft.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#788 » by RHODEY » Thu May 14, 2020 1:24 am

TheGreenArrow wrote:I can’t believe people still are doubting LaMelo as the top prospect in this draft.

It’s truly comical.
Not really.


https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/15/21220970/nba-draft-killian-hayes-2020-top-prospect

Why invest so much financially in a prospect with such a volatile range of outcomes like LaMelo, whose immense passing ability will be diminished if he never develops a jumper? Or Wiseman, who struggles to read the floor and make quick decisions? Or Edwards, whose feel for the game is lacking? Why not take Hayes, the prospect with the strongest foundation for success and a comparable upside?
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#789 » by Mecca » Thu May 14, 2020 1:29 am

newyorker4ever wrote:
Mecca wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
I think the biggest thing that you're missing is that Lonzo has proven he can play at the NBA level and LaMelo hasn't yet. You see how players that get drafted as high as in the lottery every single year end up as busts once they get to playing in the NBA. It's a different game and speed to the game and some just can't play in it even though they played well in college or in LaMelo's case overseas. I think LaMelo will be fine in the NBA cause those Ball kids just seem to have that confidence level already set in them but i've thought that about other players that were drafted high in drafts that didn't work out in the NBA. We won't know until we actually get to see it.

This team is so far away from building a good young team that i'm being very careful with any future assets i have when it comes to trading them away in this draft. If the plan is to wait for a disgruntled star so we can trade for him then we better have plenty of assets ready to trade for that player or another team will outbid us for that player. As of now we don't have much for assets to trade in players so we will need draft picks to trade.


Not missing that Lonzo has proven it in today's game. Their skillset is very different.


Very different? Don't think it's very different and think both of their best skillset coming into the NBA was their passing.


They play the game completely differently. LaMelo is more aggressive, a PnR maestro, with a smooth handle and matador defense. Lonzo is a transition player that can play off-ball in the half-court and stout defender.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#790 » by HEZI » Thu May 14, 2020 1:36 am

RHODEY wrote:
HEZI wrote:Hayes is a raw project and won't be making any real impact in the NBA for a while
8-)
Hayes is the most complete PG in the draft.


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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#791 » by DaGawd » Thu May 14, 2020 1:56 am

TheGreenArrow wrote:I can’t believe people still are doubting LaMelo as the top prospect in this draft.

It’s truly comical.

I wouldn't go that far. There's no one guy I clearly look at as head and shoulders above everyone else... If there was that guy for me is Edwards..
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#792 » by RHODEY » Thu May 14, 2020 2:12 am

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:idk i think Hayes is kind of a project. Doesn't have a right hand and needs to become more athletic. He's like super young and his body is still developing. You have to hope he gets faster cuz having a back court with average athleticism could become a problem. At least Frank just showed us that you develop athletically so it makes me more optimistic about Hayes.


Do you think he Is any more of a project than Ball - because of his poor shot IQ and his lack of defensive mindset?

or Haliburton because his lack of offensive versatility, refined handle, and slight build?

or Cole due to his poor passing/play making and bad shot IQ?

I'm not sure Killian any less ready than they are. I might argue the opposite since eye test shows he is a crafty heady player.



The short answer is yes, I just think he's the rawest skillset of the 4. That 20 min highlight reel doesn't have a single highlight of him attacking and finishing with his right hand. It's one thing to be less efficient with your off hand but his nonexistent. I don't really worry about other's doing basic basketball stuff like dribbling.


He needs to improve it if he ever wants to be an elite finisher, but it’s not like he can’t dribble with his right. And developing an off hand iis just as doable as improving someone's decision making or shot IMO.

I wouldn’t his left hand dominance is a death sentence, James Harden is as strictly one handed as it gets. And nobody ever calls out right handed players for being too rightly dominant...
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#793 » by RHODEY » Thu May 14, 2020 2:15 am

HEZI wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
HEZI wrote:Hayes is a raw project and won't be making any real impact in the NBA for a while
8-)
Hayes is the most complete PG in the draft.


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Why Killian Hayes Is the 2020 NBA Draft’s Top Prospect

https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/15/21220970/nba-draft-killian-hayes-2020-top-prospect

Hayes showed skill beyond his years, taking stepbacks, side steps, and fearless pull-up jumpers. Most NBA players, let alone teenagers, don’t possess the type of footwork required to attempt such complex moves, but Hayes is ahead of the curve.

Not bad for the "rawest" project ? :)

One prospect, though, checks more boxes than all of the others. Who can shoot? Who can generate space off the dribble? Who has a feel for the game? Who makes his teammates better? Who can defend? Who conjures memories of All-Stars? It’s the best prospect in the 2020 NBA draft: Killian Hayes


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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#794 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu May 14, 2020 2:30 am

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#795 » by HEZI » Thu May 14, 2020 2:34 am

RHODEY wrote:
HEZI wrote:
RHODEY wrote: 8-)
Hayes is the most complete PG in the draft.


Image


Why Killian Hayes Is the 2020 NBA Draft’s Top Prospect

https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/15/21220970/nba-draft-killian-hayes-2020-top-prospect

Hayes showed skill beyond his years, taking stepbacks, side steps, and fearless pull-up jumpers. Most NBA players, let alone teenagers, don’t possess the type of footwork required to attempt such complex moves, but Hayes is ahead of the curve.

Not bad for a "raw" prpject ? :)

One prospect, though, checks more boxes than all of the others. Who can shoot? Who can generate space off the dribble? Who has a feel for the game? Who makes his teammates better? Who can defend? Who conjures memories of All-Stars? It’s the best prospect in the 2020 NBA draft: Killian Hayes


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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2869572-2020-nba-draft-boom-or-bust-prospects-to-watch-at-every-position

Boom comparison: Goran Dragic
Bust comparison: Shane Larkin

The scouting report on Killian Hayes features exciting strengths and unique production for an 18-year-old in Eurocup. But it also contains worrisome weaknesses that have birthed debate about how his game will translate to the NBA.
He's become one of the draft's most polarizing prospects, especially since he's a point guard. It will probably cost a lottery pick to get him, and taking him that highly likely means expecting a quality starter.
Hayes' immediate draw stems from his playmaking. His 6.2 assists per game rank fourth in Eurocup. An excellent passer, particularly in ball-screen situations, Hayes creates opportunities for teammates and gets them the ball with high-level deliveries off the dribble.
Meanwhile, in 26 games this year (Eurocup, German BBL, German Cup), he's sporting an ugly 26.8 turnover percentage. Hayes' decision-making can be wild when he's picking his spots on drives and pass attempts.
But he's been an efficient scorer, shooting 47.6 percent while expanding his shot-creation ability using drives, improvisation and step-back jumpers. He's developed an impressive runner in the lane, and he's made notable progress around the perimeter.
However, Hayes lacks burst and explosion. Can he blow by and separate as well against NBA defenders? And despite the improved shot-making, he's still converting fewer than one three-pointer per game (25 total) on 32.5 percent shooting.
A mixed bag defensively, Hayes has good possessions, making strong off-ball reads to rotate or close out. And he has bad ones on which he's beaten too easily off the bounce.
Teams may struggle to decide where it's worth drafting Hayes. On December 11, he went 1-of-5 against AS Monaco. A week later, he finished with 25 points and five assists against Maccabi Rishon Lezion.
Some scouting departments may see an exciting lead guard who can generate offense in a variety of ways. Others may see a player who's difficult to trust in a lead-guard role if he struggles to shoot, separate or take care of the ball.
If he reaches his ceiling, Hayes will follow in Goran Dragic's footsteps, compensating for his athletic limitations with scoring and passing skills and craftiness. Worst case, he's another Shane Larkin: too inefficient offensively for a guard who can only play on the ball.


Long term project who is going to struggle to find his game in the NBA for a while considering he has some really alarming weaknesses. No right hand, carless sloppy passes that make him a turnover machine, inconsistent jumper, no burst of speed or quickness, soft handles, inconsistent defense.

Knicks have enough long term projects, they need some immediate impact players
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#796 » by RHODEY » Thu May 14, 2020 2:51 am

HEZI wrote:


Long term project who is going to struggle to find his game in the NBA for a while considering he has some really alarming weaknesses. No right hand, carless sloppy passes that make him a turnover machine, inconsistent jumper, no burst of speed or quickness, soft handles, inconsistent defense.

Knicks have enough long term projects, they need some immediate impact players



Hey so how many publications have Cole Anthony rated as the top 2020 prospect ?

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#797 » by HEZI » Thu May 14, 2020 2:59 am

RHODEY wrote:
HEZI wrote:


Long term project who is going to struggle to find his game in the NBA for a while considering he has some really alarming weaknesses. No right hand, carless sloppy passes that make him a turnover machine, inconsistent jumper, no burst of speed or quickness, soft handles, inconsistent defense.

Knicks have enough long term projects, they need some immediate impact players



Hey so how many publications have Cole Anthony rated as the top 2020 prospect ?

Image


https://medium.com/locked-on-jazz/get-to-know-2017-nba-draft-prospects-donovan-mitchell-706ae79f34c3

Best Case Comparison: Avery Bradley, Norman Powell, Gary Harris

2017 Big Board Ranking
Kevin O’Connor: 11
Chad Ford: 15
Draft Express: 11
Sports Illustrated: 13
CBS Sports: 18


:lol:

So much for publications
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#798 » by RHODEY » Thu May 14, 2020 3:16 am

HEZI wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
HEZI wrote:


Long term project who is going to struggle to find his game in the NBA for a while considering he has some really alarming weaknesses. No right hand, carless sloppy passes that make him a turnover machine, inconsistent jumper, no burst of speed or quickness, soft handles, inconsistent defense.

Knicks have enough long term projects, they need some immediate impact players



Hey so how many publications have Cole Anthony rated as the top 2020 prospect ?

Image


https://medium.com/locked-on-jazz/get-to-know-2017-nba-draft-prospects-donovan-mitchell-706ae79f34c3

Best Case Comparison: Avery Bradley, Norman Powell, Gary Harris

2017 Big Board Ranking
Kevin O’Connor: 11
Chad Ford: 15
Draft Express: 11
Sports Illustrated: 13
CBS Sports: 18


:lol:

So much for publications



Hey so how many publications have Cole Anthony rated as the top 2020 prospect ?

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#799 » by HEZI » Thu May 14, 2020 3:43 am

RHODEY wrote:
HEZI wrote:
RHODEY wrote:

Hey so how many publications have Cole Anthony rated as the top 2020 prospect ?

Image


https://medium.com/locked-on-jazz/get-to-know-2017-nba-draft-prospects-donovan-mitchell-706ae79f34c3

Best Case Comparison: Avery Bradley, Norman Powell, Gary Harris

2017 Big Board Ranking
Kevin O’Connor: 11
Chad Ford: 15
Draft Express: 11
Sports Illustrated: 13
CBS Sports: 18


:lol:

So much for publications


publications
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#800 » by RHODEY » Thu May 14, 2020 3:46 am

HEZI wrote:


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