2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[Deeeez Knicks]

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[a-French-Fan]

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Spot on. Keep sleeping, people.

Well ... for the second play, he take a shot that would be blocked in any pro league, instead of giving the ball to a teammate wide open ... My coach would had benched my for this ^^

[mpharris36]

Coleslaw will prob be a decent 6th man but should we really use the 6th pick on a microwave scorer off the bench. I would take him later in the lottery

Doesn't Trier supply that? I know his contract status is up in the air.

DSJr could do that role as well.

People gonna call me biased but DSJ still a lot more talented than Cole. If he ever gets his head straight, his upside will be much higher than Cole.

And yeah Trier can basically provide practically the same things as Cole. I’m just not feeling Cole for the Knicks.

you have to admit its kinda funny though. There measurables are nearly identical. There play styles are very similar. Yet you love as a prospect and hate the other.

I do think DSJ is more of a natural playmaker.

But Cole is a far more advanced and projectable shooter.

[3toheadmelo]

Doesn't Trier supply that? I know his contract status is up in the air.

DSJr could do that role as well.

People gonna call me biased but DSJ still a lot more talented than Cole. If he ever gets his head straight, his upside will be much higher than Cole.

And yeah Trier can basically provide practically the same things as Cole. I’m just not feeling Cole for the Knicks.

you have to admit its kinda funny though. There measurables are nearly identical. There play styles are very similar. Yet you love as a prospect and hate the other.

I do think DSJ is more of a natural playmaker.

But Cole is a far more advanced and projectable shooter.

Cause Coles handle isn’t as advanced as DSJ, DSJ is a much better passer. DSJ even shot the 3 ball better than Cole in college. Cole’s form isn’t that great either.

People say Cole had no help in college but so did DSJ. DSJ even played under more dysfunction with 2 different coaches that year but yet had a way better season. I’ll pass on Cole

[mpharris36]

People gonna call me biased but DSJ still a lot more talented than Cole. If he ever gets his head straight, his upside will be much higher than Cole.

And yeah Trier can basically provide practically the same things as Cole. I’m just not feeling Cole for the Knicks.

you have to admit its kinda funny though. There measurables are nearly identical. There play styles are very similar. Yet you love as a prospect and hate the other.

I do think DSJ is more of a natural playmaker.

But Cole is a far more advanced and projectable shooter.

Cause Coles handle isn’t as advanced as DSJ, DSJ is a much better passer. DSJ even shot the 3 ball better than Cole in college. Cole’s form isn’t that great either.

People say Cole had no help in college but so did DSJ. DSJ even played under more dysfunction with 2 different coaches that year but yet had a way better season. I’ll pass on Cole

I do agree DSJ is a better passer. Cole and DSJ both had **** college situation. I do however believe Cole handled his situation much better than DSJ. That could be due to having Roy Williams a more steadier coach then DSJ ever had.

Both can be pesky defenders when they are engaged but both have effort issues on that end.

Cole had a bad shooting year but the shot is much more project-able especially from 3 than DSJ that is for certain.

DSJ was a bouncier athlete

They are more a like then you want to admit.

[robillionaire]

cole's game doesn't make his teammates better or bring out the best in their abilities, the fact that they have to be thrown under the bus to excuse him doesn't help his case any in my eyes

[RHODEY]

https://medium.com/locked-on-jazz/get-to-know-2017-nba-draft-prospects-donovan-mitchell-706ae79f34c3





So much for publications

We missed out on one athletic NY born guard, I'd hate to miss out on another just because people say he's not a big time passer.

I'm pretty much the opposite to where i want a PG that actually plays PG the way it should be played and passing and racking up assists is that way. The PG runs and sets up the offense and is supposed to make the players around him better. This is why players like Lebron who aren't the natural size/weight of PG's plays point forward and handles the ball so much, cause he's so good at finding the open man when his shot isn't there. If i just wanted the guy playing the PG spot to just be a scorer then i'll just stick A.Trier at PG and let him score. I want the next C.Paul or J.Kidd. I want the guy that's gonna handle the ball the most to make everyone else on the floor better.

Shame n you for wanting a point guard who knows how to run an offense!

[malik959]

Cole is a much better shooter and has shown the ability to get his shot off in multiple ways unlike DSJ who is only good at going to the hoop. If you said a mixture of DSJ and Trier I'd go for that but Cole is the better defender. He is able to stay in front of his man. Trier seems like he gets tunnel vision and only sees the defense, no teammates. Cole takes over the game when nobody else is making shots.

[RHODEY]

OK so I kind of want to do these video comparison threads.

Killian Hayes Comps to 6'5 Kyle Lowry

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Here's a pretty good Hayes video where he doesn't look slow. He's also not fast in these but you can see he isn't too slow to be a PG. I'll keep saying he looks like he can be a Kyle Lowry type of PG. Not fast but physically strong enough that if he drives opponents will look to avoid the contact. He looks strong and has all the needed skills you want from your PG.

Watch on YouTube

Ironically enough his height might work against him because Lowry usually attacks bigger players hips/midsection and tries to go under their arms to get to the hoop or knock them off balance. Killian would have to have an RJ mindset and be strong enough that defenders "bounce" off of him once he begins to go downhill towards the basket.

Basically getting Killian would line the knicks up to have a Derozan/Lowry Raptors type of backcourt going forward.

Would be better off taking Cassius Winston with the 27th pick if we want somebody like Kyle Lowry. Winston is the closest player to Lowry that there is and has the same pedigree.

Its more like his game should be based on lowry. He's a shooter first, drive to the hoop second, good passer third PG, maybe 5 assists a game on avg. As I said he's too big to play exactly like Lowry, but his frame is made to get stronger. Also, a bigger Lowry is a beast. Lowry is 6'0 adding that size to him would make him a lot more difficult to contain.

I think you might be underestimating his passing skills, scouts say it could be his biggest strength.

[3toheadmelo]

you have to admit its kinda funny though. There measurables are nearly identical. There play styles are very similar. Yet you love as a prospect and hate the other.

I do think DSJ is more of a natural playmaker.

But Cole is a far more advanced and projectable shooter.

Cause Coles handle isn’t as advanced as DSJ, DSJ is a much better passer. DSJ even shot the 3 ball better than Cole in college. Cole’s form isn’t that great either.

People say Cole had no help in college but so did DSJ. DSJ even played under more dysfunction with 2 different coaches that year but yet had a way better season. I’ll pass on Cole

I do agree DSJ is a better passer. Cole and DSJ both had **** college situation. I do however believe Cole handled his situation much better than DSJ. That could be due to having Roy Williams a more steadier coach then DSJ ever had.

Both can be pesky defenders when they are engaged but both have effort issues on that end.

Cole had a bad shooting year but the shot is much more project-able especially from 3 than DSJ that is for certain.

DSJ was a bouncier athlete

They are more a like then you want to admit.

Yes they are similar. Hence the “poor mans DSJ” label I gave him

[knickstape21]

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Spot on. Keep sleeping, people.

Well ... for the second play, he take a shot that would be blocked in any pro league, instead of giving the ball to a teammate wide open ... My coach would had benched my for this ^^

No credit for making a play? Have you seen Frank or DSJ do that?

NITPICKING

[mpharris36]

Cole is a much better shooter and has shown the ability to get his shot off in multiple ways unlike DSJ who is only good at going to the hoop. If you said a mixture of DSJ and Trier I'd go for that but Cole is the better defender. He is able to stay in front of his man. Trier seems like he gets tunnel vision and only sees the defense, no teammates. Cole takes over the game when nobody else is making shots.

my major concern with Cole would be his mindset offensively is too similar to RJ. When the situation gets tough he first instinct is to score or force a shot rather than distribute. To have your to main ball handlers with that mentality could bog down the offense and not get us high quality shots especially when we need them.

I know the knock on Hayes is that he and RJ are both lefty dominant. Well hayes is more of a natural playmaker which should at least play off RJ better regardless if they both like to go left (which I don't see as too big of an issue) since they probably will be on different sides of the court.

[RHODEY]

I can as well. I think he is a safe pick. He can shoot, he can defend, he can run an offense.

But his upside is limtied since he is not a dynamic playmaker or athlete and he has a non exhistant mid range game.

Can he be a guy that late in a game he either can get a shot for himself or for teamates consistently? If not then he can't be a #1 option of your offense.

I don't get why a guy like Hayes is given room and time to improve and is worth the gamble but Haliburton is treated as a finished product. The vibe I get from Haliburton is that he's a gym rat and really it's hard to even put a ceiling on him years down the road. His potential is actually higher than Hayes since he's coming into the league with more polished skills and the age difference is just over 1 year. The only reason you say Haliburton is a safe pick is because you feel confident in his ability to step on the NBA court and provide some impact from day 1 but at the end of the day he's still going to be a young rookie with a bunch of improving left.

You are pointing out a fact people sometimes ignore or downplay. Other than 1 or 2 guys a draft, most of these guys are so young it's going to take a few years anyway. 90% of them are "projects" to some degree or another.

Exactly.

[mpharris36]

Cause Coles handle isn’t as advanced as DSJ, DSJ is a much better passer. DSJ even shot the 3 ball better than Cole in college. Cole’s form isn’t that great either.

People say Cole had no help in college but so did DSJ. DSJ even played under more dysfunction with 2 different coaches that year but yet had a way better season. I’ll pass on Cole

I do agree DSJ is a better passer. Cole and DSJ both had **** college situation. I do however believe Cole handled his situation much better than DSJ. That could be due to having Roy Williams a more steadier coach then DSJ ever had.

Both can be pesky defenders when they are engaged but both have effort issues on that end.

Cole had a bad shooting year but the shot is much more project-able especially from 3 than DSJ that is for certain.

DSJ was a bouncier athlete

They are more a like then you want to admit.

Yes they are similar. Hence the “poor mans DSJ” label I gave him

fair but if you loved DSJ as a propect, does a "poor mans" version of a player you love go to a player you hate?

That would be like me hating on Haliburton game when I was high on Frank's game coming into the draft.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Attitude/mentality seem like the biggest thing holding DSJ back. Just doesn't seem like he has improved much either. He had a lot of skill/athletiscom back in college and was talented. Just hasn't been able to put it together. There were red flags on that. I did like DSJ coming out too.

[malik959]

We missed out on one athletic NY born guard, I'd hate to miss out on another just because people say he's not a big time passer.

I'm pretty much the opposite to where i want a PG that actually plays PG the way it should be played and passing and racking up assists is that way. The PG runs and sets up the offense and is supposed to make the players around him better. This is why players like Lebron who aren't the natural size/weight of PG's plays point forward and handles the ball so much, cause he's so good at finding the open man when his shot isn't there. If i just wanted the guy playing the PG spot to just be a scorer then i'll just stick A.Trier at PG and let him score. I want the next C.Paul or J.Kidd. I want the guy that's gonna handle the ball the most to make everyone else on the floor better.

Shame n you for wanting a point guard who knows how to run an offense!

Lol, definitely nothing wrong with that, but there are no Jason Kids, Chris Paul's, or Steve Nashs in this draft. Yeah LaMelo can pass on a superstar level, but everything else screams Calderon, wait Calderon was a good shooter, sorry I disrespected him like that. Haliburton, I love his game, but he's a role player at best. Cole can be an elite scorer that won't hurt his team in any other area.

[mpharris36]

Attitude/mentality seem like the biggest thing holding DSJ back. Just doesn't seem like he has improved much either. He had a lot of skill/athletiscom back in college and was talented. Just hasn't been able to put it together. There were red flags on that. I did like DSJ coming out too.

work ethic and drive are tough things to improve.

[robillionaire]

I do agree DSJ is a better passer. Cole and DSJ both had **** college situation. I do however believe Cole handled his situation much better than DSJ. That could be due to having Roy Williams a more steadier coach then DSJ ever had.

Both can be pesky defenders when they are engaged but both have effort issues on that end.

Cole had a bad shooting year but the shot is much more project-able especially from 3 than DSJ that is for certain.

DSJ was a bouncier athlete

They are more a like then you want to admit.

Yes they are similar. Hence the “poor mans DSJ” label I gave him

fair but if you loved DSJ as a propect, does a "poor mans" version of a player you love go to a player you hate?

That would be like me hating on Haliburton game when I was high on Frank's game coming into the draft.

eh not necessarily. for example I liked Trae. They're saying this Tyrell Terry is a poor man's Trae. That's nice and all but I don't want a "poor man's" version of a good player with my top 10 pick I want the actual good player

[a-French-Fan]

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Spot on. Keep sleeping, people.

Well ... for the second play, he take a shot that would be blocked in any pro league, instead of giving the ball to a teammate wide open ... My coach would had benched my for this ^^

No credit for making a play? Have you seen Frank or DSJ do that?

NITPICKING

Oh sorry I didn't see how he jumped so high to avoid the block, how they defended so hard.

For Frank I invite you to watch (again?) its 4th quarter at word cup last summer Vs team USA ^^

[RHODEY]

Coleslaw will prob be a decent 6th man but should we really use the 6th pick on a microwave scorer off the bench. I would take him later in the lottery

Agreed huge reach 1-8 for a 6th man type, he likely wouldn't beat out Trier ....