2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[3toheadmelo]

I do agree DSJ is a better passer. Cole and DSJ both had **** college situation. I do however believe Cole handled his situation much better than DSJ. That could be due to having Roy Williams a more steadier coach then DSJ ever had.

Both can be pesky defenders when they are engaged but both have effort issues on that end.

Cole had a bad shooting year but the shot is much more project-able especially from 3 than DSJ that is for certain.

DSJ was a bouncier athlete

They are more a like then you want to admit.

Yes they are similar. Hence the “poor mans DSJ” label I gave him

fair but if you loved DSJ as a propect, does a "poor mans" version of a player you love go to a player you hate?

That would be like me hating on Haliburton game when I was high on Frank's game coming into the draft.

I don’t hate him but would definitely not take him at #6. Much better options for us in this range. I would take a shot at Cole in the 10-13 range.

I don’t see the Haliburton and Frank comparison besides having a weak handle. He’s a lot more like Lonzo. Theo Maledon is the one who compares to Frank the most.

[mpharris36]

Yes they are similar. Hence the “poor mans DSJ” label I gave him

fair but if you loved DSJ as a propect, does a "poor mans" version of a player you love go to a player you hate?

That would be like me hating on Haliburton game when I was high on Frank's game coming into the draft.

eh not necessarily. for example I liked Trae. They're saying this Tyrell Terry is a poor man's Trae. That's nice and all but I don't want a "poor man's" version of a good player with my top 10 pick I want the actual good player

I mean you are stretching it a bit with Tyrell Terry. You consider him a poor mans Trae when he has no handle and very minimal play making skills.

Those are two huge skill gaps that make Trae a genius offensive player. Sidebar I do think it will be difficult for Trae Young to be a consistant winner in the NBA. For example he and John Collins put up huge offensive years and they still ended up a with a worse record then up. Defense matters.

Cole and DSJ skill gaps are very close. Tyrell isn't in the same area code as Trae other then them both being able to shoot from range.

[RHODEY]

Just messing with you

Haven’t watched the whole vid but off rip he looks pretty impressive. Where is he projected to be picked

late 1st/early 2nd.

He's trae young without the advanced handle or vision. So he will be a instant offense scorer off the bench with a lot of range. But he is a defensive liability and really not a true "pg" and he is 6'1. So he is really limited defensively on who he can guard.

So maybe he can project to be a smaller lou williams?

Sounds a lot like Cole. I wouldn’t mind taking him in that range. Would prefer Karim Mane though

He's got a way higher shot IQ than Cole.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I just keep trying to talk myself into Cole since I have a feeling that is who the Knicks are getting

LaMelo, Hayes, Halliburton are really the 3 guys i like the most and have always made the most sense for the Knicks

[RHODEY]

Coleslaw will prob be a decent 6th man but should we really use the 6th pick on a microwave scorer off the bench. I would take him later in the lottery

Doesn't Trier supply that? I know his contract status is up in the air.

DSJr could do that role as well.

People gonna call me biased but DSJ still a lot more talented than Cole. If he ever gets his head straight, his upside will be much higher than Cole.

And yeah Trier can basically provide practically the same things as Cole. I’m just not feeling Cole for the Knicks.

Correct on both counts. His supporters say what separates Cole is his DOG mentality. That might work well for him...because I suspect that he'll be in the DOG house if he decides to continue chucking in the NBA.

[malik959]

Cole is a much better shooter and has shown the ability to get his shot off in multiple ways unlike DSJ who is only good at going to the hoop. If you said a mixture of DSJ and Trier I'd go for that but Cole is the better defender. He is able to stay in front of his man. Trier seems like he gets tunnel vision and only sees the defense, no teammates. Cole takes over the game when nobody else is making shots.

my major concern with Cole would be his mindset offensively is too similar to RJ. When the situation gets tough he first instinct is to score or force a shot rather than distribute. To have your to main ball handlers with that mentality could bog down the offense and not get us high quality shots especially when we need them.

I know the knock on Hayes is that he and RJ are both lefty dominant. Well hayes is more of a natural playmaker which should at least play off RJ better regardless if they both like to go left (which I don't see as too big of an issue) since they probably will be on different sides of the court.

Yet we wanted Kyrie on our team last summer. Someone who could take over when we needed buckets

[mpharris36]

Yes they are similar. Hence the “poor mans DSJ” label I gave him

fair but if you loved DSJ as a propect, does a "poor mans" version of a player you love go to a player you hate?

That would be like me hating on Haliburton game when I was high on Frank's game coming into the draft.

I don’t hate him but would definitely not take him at #6. Much better options for us in this range. I would take a shot at Cole in the 10-13 range.

I don’t see the Haliburton and Frank comparison besides having a weak handle. He’s a lot more like Lonzo. Theo Maledon is the one who compares to Frank the most.

I do think at his best offensively Frank has a lot of similar qualities as lonzo (puts up similar numbers). Now lonzo improved to 38% from 3. If Frank can get close to there there per 36 numbers are pretty similar. Both big guards that can defend. Frank has still a way to go offensively to big counted on that end but he TS% sky rocketed this year (nearly 50% TS%). I believe Lonzo's sky rocketed to 53% when he was under 50% his first two years.

But I kinda think they both kinda have that run an offense with low usage type of deal. Same kinda play style haliburton will have. He will have a lower usage then guys like Lamelo/Hayes/Cole. But Haliburton will move the ball and find ways to keep the offense running.

[RHODEY]

cole's game doesn't make his teammates better or bring out the best in their abilities, the fact that they have to be thrown under the bus to excuse him doesn't help his case any in my eyes

Right , and wouldn't you expect that from a point guard?

[robillionaire]

fair but if you loved DSJ as a propect, does a "poor mans" version of a player you love go to a player you hate?

That would be like me hating on Haliburton game when I was high on Frank's game coming into the draft.

eh not necessarily. for example I liked Trae. They're saying this Tyrell Terry is a poor man's Trae. That's nice and all but I don't want a "poor man's" version of a good player with my top 10 pick I want the actual good player

I mean you are stretching it a bit with Tyrell Terry. You consider him a poor mans Trae when he has no handle and very minimal play making skills.

Those are two huge skill gaps that make Trae a genius offensive player. Sidebar I do think it will be difficult for Trae Young to be a consistant winner in the NBA. For example he and John Collins put up huge offensive years and they still ended up a with a worse record then up. Defense matters.

Cole and DSJ skill gaps are very close. Tyrell isn't in the same area code as Trae other then them both being able to shoot from range.

The comparison Trae was getting was Steph. He obviously wasn't and still probably isn't as good as Steph. But I didn't see him as "poor man's Steph" I thought he had the potential to BE the next steph. I don't think Tyrell Terry has the potential to be the next Trae because as noted he is missing a couple of the essential talents that make Trae who he is. I just think "poor man's" implies "this player will be a not as good version of this player" where as you'd like to draft someone who could become just as good as the player to which you're making the comparison.

Agreed about the skill gaps of Cole and DSJ. I think they're very similar prospects. DSJ was probably a better prospect although he didn't pan out. His shooting didn't look THIS bad in college and his passing was better.

[robillionaire]

DSJ went 9th in a strong draft. Cole will be going outside the top 10 in a weak draft unless the knicks reach for him early

[mpharris36]

Cole is a much better shooter and has shown the ability to get his shot off in multiple ways unlike DSJ who is only good at going to the hoop. If you said a mixture of DSJ and Trier I'd go for that but Cole is the better defender. He is able to stay in front of his man. Trier seems like he gets tunnel vision and only sees the defense, no teammates. Cole takes over the game when nobody else is making shots.

my major concern with Cole would be his mindset offensively is too similar to RJ. When the situation gets tough he first instinct is to score or force a shot rather than distribute. To have your to main ball handlers with that mentality could bog down the offense and not get us high quality shots especially when we need them.

I know the knock on Hayes is that he and RJ are both lefty dominant. Well hayes is more of a natural playmaker which should at least play off RJ better regardless if they both like to go left (which I don't see as too big of an issue) since they probably will be on different sides of the court.

Yet we wanted Kyrie on our team last summer. Someone who could take over when we needed buckets

You are talking about Kyrie Irving...one of the all time greatest TS% high usage guards in the history of the NBA?

If you have nearly a 60% TS% you have the right to have a 30% of the teams usage.

Now if you are hovering around 50% TS % you are not allowed to have 30% of the teams usage

[RHODEY]

Cole is a much better shooter and has shown the ability to get his shot off in multiple ways unlike DSJ who is only good at going to the hoop. If you said a mixture of DSJ and Trier I'd go for that but Cole is the better defender. He is able to stay in front of his man. Trier seems like he gets tunnel vision and only sees the defense, no teammates. Cole takes over the game when nobody else is making shots.

my major concern with Cole would be his mindset offensively is too similar to RJ. When the situation gets tough he first instinct is to score or force a shot rather than distribute. To have your to main ball handlers with that mentality could bog down the offense and not get us high quality shots especially when we need them.

I know the knock on Hayes is that he and RJ are both lefty dominant. Well hayes is more of a natural playmaker which should at least play off RJ better regardless if they both like to go left (which I don't see as too big of an issue) since they probably will be on different sides of the court.

Its clear as day. We already have what Cole gives...we have Trier and DSJ. Why should we squander our top ten pick on that type of player? A sixth man type?

[mpharris36]

Cole is a much better shooter and has shown the ability to get his shot off in multiple ways unlike DSJ who is only good at going to the hoop. If you said a mixture of DSJ and Trier I'd go for that but Cole is the better defender. He is able to stay in front of his man. Trier seems like he gets tunnel vision and only sees the defense, no teammates. Cole takes over the game when nobody else is making shots.

my major concern with Cole would be his mindset offensively is too similar to RJ. When the situation gets tough he first instinct is to score or force a shot rather than distribute. To have your to main ball handlers with that mentality could bog down the offense and not get us high quality shots especially when we need them.

I know the knock on Hayes is that he and RJ are both lefty dominant. Well hayes is more of a natural playmaker which should at least play off RJ better regardless if they both like to go left (which I don't see as too big of an issue) since they probably will be on different sides of the court.

Its clear as day. We already have what Cole gives...we have Trier and DSJ. Why should we squander our top ten pick on that type of player? A sixth man type?

I understand your point. To be fair. I don't see either Trier or DSJ back on the knicks next year.

[RHODEY]

I'm pretty much the opposite to where i want a PG that actually plays PG the way it should be played and passing and racking up assists is that way. The PG runs and sets up the offense and is supposed to make the players around him better. This is why players like Lebron who aren't the natural size/weight of PG's plays point forward and handles the ball so much, cause he's so good at finding the open man when his shot isn't there. If i just wanted the guy playing the PG spot to just be a scorer then i'll just stick A.Trier at PG and let him score. I want the next C.Paul or J.Kidd. I want the guy that's gonna handle the ball the most to make everyone else on the floor better.

Shame n you for wanting a point guard who knows how to run an offense!

Lol, definitely nothing wrong with that, but there are no Jason Kids, Chris Paul's, or Steve Nashs in this draft. Yeah LaMelo can pass on a superstar level, but everything else screams Calderon, wait Calderon was a good shooter, sorry I disrespected him like that. Haliburton, I love his game, but he's a role player at best. Cole can be an elite scorer that won't hurt his team in any other area.

Not sure why you think that. Not an elite athlete or shooter, undersized.... How does he compensate for that?

[Jeff Van Gully]

I just keep trying to talk myself into Cole since I have a feeling that is who the Knicks are getting

LaMelo, Hayes, Halliburton are really the 3 guys i like the most and have always made the most sense for the Knicks

these are the 3 guys i'd be excited about for us, and i think there's almost no way we don't end up able to draft one of them... even if we fell to 10.

[RHODEY]

I just keep trying to talk myself into Cole since I have a feeling that is who the Knicks are getting

LaMelo, Hayes, Halliburton are really the 3 guys i like the most and have always made the most sense for the Knicks

And its no wonder all three are atleast 6'5" long and can run an offense....logic prevails!

[RHODEY]

I just keep trying to talk myself into Cole since I have a feeling that is who the Knicks are getting

LaMelo, Hayes, Halliburton are really the 3 guys i like the most and have always made the most sense for the Knicks

these are the 3 guys i'd be excited about for us, and i think there's almost no way we don't end up able to draft one of them... even if we fell to 10.

Right atleast 2 of these dudes would be fairly likely to be available.

[robillionaire]

I just keep trying to talk myself into Cole since I have a feeling that is who the Knicks are getting

LaMelo, Hayes, Halliburton are really the 3 guys i like the most and have always made the most sense for the Knicks

these are the 3 guys i'd be excited about for us, and i think there's almost no way we don't end up able to draft one of them... even if we fell to 10.

Right atleast 2 of these dudes would be fairly likely to be available.

at 10? doubtful. get ready for coleslaw

[RHODEY]

these are the 3 guys i'd be excited about for us, and i think there's almost no way we don't end up able to draft one of them... even if we fell to 10.

Right atleast 2 of these dudes would be fairly likely to be available.

at 10? doubtful. get ready for coleslaw

Not at 10 , but us dropping all the way to 10 is unlikely .

[3toheadmelo]

fair but if you loved DSJ as a propect, does a "poor mans" version of a player you love go to a player you hate?

That would be like me hating on Haliburton game when I was high on Frank's game coming into the draft.

I don’t hate him but would definitely not take him at #6. Much better options for us in this range. I would take a shot at Cole in the 10-13 range.

I don’t see the Haliburton and Frank comparison besides having a weak handle. He’s a lot more like Lonzo. Theo Maledon is the one who compares to Frank the most.

I do think at his best offensively Frank has a lot of similar qualities as lonzo (puts up similar numbers). Now lonzo improved to 38% from 3. If Frank can get close to there there per 36 numbers are pretty similar. Both big guards that can defend. Frank has still a way to go offensively to big counted on that end but he TS% sky rocketed this year (nearly 50% TS%). I believe Lonzo's sky rocketed to 53% when he was under 50% his first two years.

But I kinda think they both kinda have that run an offense with low usage type of deal. Same kinda play style haliburton will have. He will have a lower usage then guys like Lamelo/Hayes/Cole. But Haliburton will move the ball and find ways to keep the offense running.

I don't see the Frank and Lonzo comparison at all. Lonzo can legit run a offense while Frank is more of a 3 and D guard without the 3 ball. Lonzo is the definition of a pure point. Frank isn't a point guard. If he was then we wouldn't be looking to draft one lol. Plus their playing styles are much different. Lonzo loves to get out in transition, is a significantly better shooter, playmaker, athlete, and rebounder. A lot like Haliburton.

Really the best comparison for Frank is Theo Maledon.