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2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#941 » by mpharris36 » Thu May 14, 2020 3:40 pm

robillionaire wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
these are the 3 guys i'd be excited about for us, and i think there's almost no way we don't end up able to draft one of them... even if we fell to 10.

Right atleast 2 of these dudes would be fairly likely to be available.


at 10? doubtful. get ready for coleslaw


i mean being realistic. We have a 4% combined of picking 9 and 10. Those aren't realistic odds. So its more realistic to expect 6-8 (about 60%) and about a 36% chance of jumping into the top 4.

9 and 10 would mean 3 or 4 teams below us move into the top 4 which is very very very unlikely.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#942 » by mpharris36 » Thu May 14, 2020 3:44 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:I don’t hate him but would definitely not take him at #6. Much better options for us in this range. I would take a shot at Cole in the 10-13 range.

I don’t see the Haliburton and Frank comparison besides having a weak handle. He’s a lot more like Lonzo. Theo Maledon is the one who compares to Frank the most.


I do think at his best offensively Frank has a lot of similar qualities as lonzo (puts up similar numbers). Now lonzo improved to 38% from 3. If Frank can get close to there there per 36 numbers are pretty similar. Both big guards that can defend. Frank has still a way to go offensively to big counted on that end but he TS% sky rocketed this year (nearly 50% TS%). I believe Lonzo's sky rocketed to 53% when he was under 50% his first two years.

But I kinda think they both kinda have that run an offense with low usage type of deal. Same kinda play style haliburton will have. He will have a lower usage then guys like Lamelo/Hayes/Cole. But Haliburton will move the ball and find ways to keep the offense running.

I don't see the Frank and Lonzo comparison at all. Lonzo can legit run a offense while Frank is more of a 3 and D guard without the 3 ball. Lonzo is the definition of a pure point. Frank isn't a point guard. If he was then we wouldn't be looking to draft one lol. Plus their playing styles are much different. Lonzo loves to get out in transition, is a significantly better shooter, playmaker, athlete, and rebounder. A lot like Haliburton.

Really the best comparison for Frank is Theo Maledon.


I was speaking more on how they play offense in terms of low usage lead guard style. They may play different but ultimately there results kind of produce similar results. Frank has a 16.5 usage which is obviously low for a lead guard. Lonzo for being a point has a career usage of 17.7 which is very low as well. When you have many of the point guards in the NBA in the 30's and high 20's...in terms of usage.

That style is not the pound the rock style they initiate the offense and make the correct passes. Now lonzo is a better passer with better vision which is why I said Frank is kinda a poor mans lonzo on offense.

That was mostly what I was referring to.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#943 » by robillionaire » Thu May 14, 2020 3:46 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
RHODEY wrote:Right atleast 2 of these dudes would be fairly likely to be available.


at 10? doubtful. get ready for coleslaw


i mean being realistic. We have a 4% combined of picking 9 and 10. Those aren't realistic odds. So its more realistic to expect 6-8 (about 60%) and about a 36% chance of jumping into the top 4.

9 and 10 would mean 3 or 4 teams below us move into the top 4 which is very very very unlikely.


I agree, JVG said "even if we fall to 10" so I was basing if off that

I never rule out the worst case scenario with the knicks. murphy is always lurking
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#944 » by Deeeez Knicks » Thu May 14, 2020 3:47 pm

Read on Twitter


Some craziness mixed in with a lot of hints...maybe LaVar's craziness will help push LaMelo to NY.

Spoiler:
LaVar Ball now has said for a second time he’d like his son, LaMelo Ball, to wind up a Knick.

On the “Load Management” podcast Wednesday, Ball also stated he’s certain his youngest son will be considered for the No. 1 pick in the 2020 NBA Draft.

Some league sources believe the Ball camp will try to steer the 18-year-old point guard to the Knicks, though such a maneuver will seem difficult if Leon Rose’s club doesn’t rise into the top four in the lottery.

The sixth-seeded Knicks have a 37.2 percent chance of moving up in a lottery that has been postponed from May 19.

During a recent appearance on FS1, the elder Ball said LaMelo would be perfect for the New York market.

“The best fit in my eyes is the New York Knicks,” LaVar said then. “It’s time for something good to happen to them.”

Asked Wednesday if he still feels that way about the Knicks, LaVar, a former practice squad tight end for the Jets, said, “I think so. The bright lights, East Coast, If everything lines up right, the Knicks get the first pick and get LaMelo and LiAngelo with him and somehow get Lonzo in the long run. Shoot – The Triple B’s. The Ball Brothers on Broadway.”

In an interesting maneuver, the Ball brothers left the Creative Artists Agency in early March just at the time Rose departed for the Knicks’ presidency.

In late April, LaMelo signed on with Jay-Z’s Roc Nation and Raymond Brothers, a top agent who is known to be a longtime friend of Knicks GM Scott Perry.

The manager for LaMelo is now Jermaine Jackson, a former Knicks shooting guard in 2004-05 who was Ball’s prep-school coach at Spire in Ohio. In a statement on the Roc Nation move provided to ESPN, Jackson mentioned the Knicks.

“They put together a beautiful game plan with Jay-Z,” Jackson said. “The basketball game is about to change. They are going to create something totally new. I’ve known Jay-Z since I played for the Knicks, but this is what the kids wanted to do. Jay-Z is a master at what he does.”

Steering LaMelo to the Knicks will be no easy chore, but it makes sense. The Knicks are one of the few teams sorely lacking a starting point guard and in need of a savior. Rose has been brought in to deliver star power.

Before the 2017 Draft, LaVar lobbied for the Lakers to pick Lonzo with the No. 2 pick and reportedly refused to let others work him out. “Oh, he’s going to be a Laker,” he said back then. “I’m going to keep talking about it until it happens.”

And it happened. Another case example came in the 2015 draft when Kristaps Porzingis refused to work out for woebegone Philadelphia, which selected 3rd. The Sixers chose Jahlil Okafor instead and Porzingis dropped to the Knicks at 4.

“I think you could connect the dots,” one NBA source about an attempt to get LaMelo to the Knicks.

LaVar proclaimed Wednesday the 6-foot-7 LaMelo will beat out Anthony Edwards and James Wiseman for the No. 1 pick.

“Whoever is the most popular usually is going to go No. 1,” LaVar said on the podcast. “Zion was the most popular. That’s why he’s No. 1. RJ Barrett (taken 3rd by the Knicks) was pretty good, did better at Duke but he wasn’t as popular as Zion. In LaMelo, you got the most popular and the best guard. Who’s not going to take him No. 1? … The youngest is always going to be the best.”

Some teams may be fearful of Ball because of his father’s outspoken nature, the point guard’s shaky outside shot and lack of defensive intensity in his brief foray in Australia (12 points, seven assists, six rebounds per game).

Rashad Phillips, who runs the Sports Talk 2319 mock draft and is a friend of LaVar’s, feels the father has mellowed some, though that didn’t come across on the podcast.

“I think LaVar is fantastic,” Phillips told The Post. “Not too many people can say they will have two sons who will be drafted in the top 5. Obviously he’s doing something right.”

During Lonzo’s stint in Los Angeles, LaVar Ball questioned coach Luke Walton. “That was two years ago,” Phillips said. “People change, people grow, people evolve. I don’t think it’s fair for something he did two years ago to hold his feet to the fire.”

Indeed, LaVar has quieted since Lonzo was traded from the Lakers to New Orleans in the Anthony Davis blockbuster. That didn’t stop him from taking more shots at Walton Wednesday.

“The coach didn’t know how to use him,” LaVar said. “(People say) he’s out of the spotlight, not with the Lakers and doing so much better. The only thing different in the situation is the coaching Luke/(Alvin) Gentry. Two different coaches.”

LaVar Ball added Williamson came back from his knee injury this season in a desire to play with Lonzo. And he chided the Lakers, saying they won’t win the title if the season resumes.

“If you ever get rid of Lonzo, you’ll never ever win another title – not until my boy decides to come back,” Ball said.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#945 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu May 14, 2020 3:48 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I do think at his best offensively Frank has a lot of similar qualities as lonzo (puts up similar numbers). Now lonzo improved to 38% from 3. If Frank can get close to there there per 36 numbers are pretty similar. Both big guards that can defend. Frank has still a way to go offensively to big counted on that end but he TS% sky rocketed this year (nearly 50% TS%). I believe Lonzo's sky rocketed to 53% when he was under 50% his first two years.

But I kinda think they both kinda have that run an offense with low usage type of deal. Same kinda play style haliburton will have. He will have a lower usage then guys like Lamelo/Hayes/Cole. But Haliburton will move the ball and find ways to keep the offense running.

I don't see the Frank and Lonzo comparison at all. Lonzo can legit run a offense while Frank is more of a 3 and D guard without the 3 ball. Lonzo is the definition of a pure point. Frank isn't a point guard. If he was then we wouldn't be looking to draft one lol. Plus their playing styles are much different. Lonzo loves to get out in transition, is a significantly better shooter, playmaker, athlete, and rebounder. A lot like Haliburton.

Really the best comparison for Frank is Theo Maledon.


I was speaking more on how they play offense in terms of low usage lead guard style. They may play different but ultimately there results kind of produce similar results. Frank has a 16.5 usage which is obviously low for a lead guard. Lonzo for being a point has a career usage of 17.7 which is very low as well. When you have many of the point guards in the NBA in the 30's and high 20's...in terms of usage.

That was mostly what I was referring to.

Even still I don't see it. Lonzo's production is superior compared to Frank even with similar usage. Lonzo is averaging 12.4 PPG 6.2 rebounds and 7.0 assists. Frank is averaging 6.3 PPG 2.1 rebounds 3.0 assists. Significant difference between them two. I'd imagine Lonzo's numbers would be even higher if he wasn't playing next to Jrue Holiday, who he also shares ball handling duties with.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#946 » by Capn'O » Thu May 14, 2020 3:51 pm

Oh zany ol' Lavar.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#947 » by robillionaire » Thu May 14, 2020 3:56 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:

Asked Wednesday if he still feels that way about the Knicks, LaVar, a former practice squad tight end for the Jets, said, “I think so. The bright lights, East Coast, If everything lines up right, the Knicks get the first pick and get LaMelo and LiAngelo with him and somehow get Lonzo in the long run. Shoot – The Triple B’s. The Ball Brothers on Broadway.”


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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#948 » by robillionaire » Thu May 14, 2020 4:00 pm

If they draft lamelo and have wood and mitch out there with him and tried to play a game in an empty arena I'd stand outside on the sidewalk of 7th avenue hoping to catch the spare sound of a squeaking shoe or a rim being rocked in the night air
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#949 » by god shammgod » Thu May 14, 2020 4:18 pm

lavar not doing enough. gotta start insulting the other places he might get drafted.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#950 » by MaseInYourFace » Thu May 14, 2020 4:18 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Sounds a lot like Cole. I wouldn’t mind taking him in that range. Would prefer Karim Mane though


nah cole is 6'3 and 190. He can drive take contract and fishing at the rim. He has NBA strength and cole can at least defend his position.

Terry is 6'1 and 160. He aint guarding anyone at the NBA level and have very limited strength to absorb contact. He is going to be a floor spacer and a guy that can shoot off the dribble. Maybe sort of that older version of Jason Terry.

Cole looks like he’s 6’1. I’m not buying the 6’3 lol. And Cole is still a weak defender. He shows effort sometimes but is still a negative defender



I agree. He looks small to me. Even if he is 6’3 -6’4 whateva he’s definitely the type who has a smallish frame.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#951 » by mpharris36 » Thu May 14, 2020 4:31 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:I don't see the Frank and Lonzo comparison at all. Lonzo can legit run a offense while Frank is more of a 3 and D guard without the 3 ball. Lonzo is the definition of a pure point. Frank isn't a point guard. If he was then we wouldn't be looking to draft one lol. Plus their playing styles are much different. Lonzo loves to get out in transition, is a significantly better shooter, playmaker, athlete, and rebounder. A lot like Haliburton.

Really the best comparison for Frank is Theo Maledon.


I was speaking more on how they play offense in terms of low usage lead guard style. They may play different but ultimately there results kind of produce similar results. Frank has a 16.5 usage which is obviously low for a lead guard. Lonzo for being a point has a career usage of 17.7 which is very low as well. When you have many of the point guards in the NBA in the 30's and high 20's...in terms of usage.

That was mostly what I was referring to.

Even still I don't see it. Lonzo's production is superior compared to Frank even with similar usage. Lonzo is averaging 12.4 PPG 6.2 rebounds and 7.0 assists. Frank is averaging 6.3 PPG 2.1 rebounds 3.0 assists. Significant difference between them two. I'd imagine Lonzo's numbers would be even higher if he wasn't playing next to Jrue Holiday, who he also shares ball handling duties with.


I think it would be fairer to use there per 36 in that case. Frank was a 20 min a night guy while Lonzo was 32. Franks per 36 is like 11 ppg 5 assists and 4 rebounds.

Now I'm not comparing there offensive skill set because Lonzo beats him in basically every category offesively (lonzo also took a major step this year into being a really good player). Just using it as a style of play. big pg, low usage, low shot attempts...rather then the high scoring, high usage, high shot attempt guard.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#952 » by robillionaire » Thu May 14, 2020 4:35 pm

If Frank could put in some work and shoot over 38% from 3 like lonzo did he'd be a great NBA player. Going into year 4, still waiting
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#953 » by HEZI » Thu May 14, 2020 4:42 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
HEZI wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I can as well. I think he is a safe pick. He can shoot, he can defend, he can run an offense.

But his upside is limtied since he is not a dynamic playmaker or athlete and he has a non exhistant mid range game.

Can he be a guy that late in a game he either can get a shot for himself or for teamates consistently? If not then he can't be a #1 option of your offense.


I don't get why a guy like Hayes is given room and time to improve and is worth the gamble but Haliburton is treated as a finished product. The vibe I get from Haliburton is that he's a gym rat and really it's hard to even put a ceiling on him years down the road. His potential is actually higher than Hayes since he's coming into the league with more polished skills and the age difference is just over 1 year. The only reason you say Haliburton is a safe pick is because you feel confident in his ability to step on the NBA court and provide some impact from day 1 but at the end of the day he's still going to be a young rookie with a bunch of improving left.


You are pointing out a fact people sometimes ignore or downplay. Other than 1 or 2 guys a draft, most of these guys are so young it's going to take a few years anyway. 90% of them are "projects" to some degree or another.


And most of them turn out into busts who teams give up on shortly after drafting them and they go from team to team being terrible NBA players with maybe a potential to find a role somewhere as a bench piece
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#954 » by knickstape21 » Thu May 14, 2020 4:45 pm

a-French-Fan wrote:
knickstape21 wrote:
a-French-Fan wrote:
Well ... for the second play, he take a shot that would be blocked in any pro league, instead of giving the ball to a teammate wide open ... My coach would had benched my for this ^^


No credit for making a play? Have you seen Frank or DSJ do that?

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Oh sorry I didn't see how he jumped so high to avoid the block, how they defended so hard.

For Frank I invite you to watch (again?) its 4th quarter at word cup last summer Vs team USA ^^


Lol what? He hit a tough pull up jumper dude, relax... players also get better and more explosive you know, he’s just ahead of his current competition.

I’ve seen every Frank play since his days of being a Knick. I’m a fan of his potential as a Swiss Army knife. He doesn’t provide anything close to what Terry would give us.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#955 » by mpharris36 » Thu May 14, 2020 4:46 pm

robillionaire wrote:If Frank could put in some work and shoot over 38% from 3 like lonzo did he'd be a great NBA player. Going into year 4, still waiting


agreed, still a long way to go but he did take his TS% from 42% last year to 50% this year. That is a huge jump in one season. His FT% also went from 77% last year to 86% and he shot 32% from 3 a career high (which is still need to greatly improve). He also made 43% of his drives up from 39% last year.

So we did see improvement. Obviously not at the rate we all hoped. The 3 pt % need to get near the high 30's though. 100% agree there I would be shocked if he wasn't over 35% next year with the way he has improved in the other facets of his game (slowly :lol: )
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#956 » by mpharris36 » Thu May 14, 2020 4:48 pm

god shammgod wrote:lavar not doing enough. gotta start insulting the other places he might get drafted.


:lol:

people were mad sensitive about the phil era and the way he talked to the media. I wonder how our fan base would handle Lavar poppin off... :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#957 » by mpharris36 » Thu May 14, 2020 4:50 pm

LiAngelo with him


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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#958 » by thebuzzardman » Thu May 14, 2020 4:53 pm

HEZI wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
HEZI wrote:
I don't get why a guy like Hayes is given room and time to improve and is worth the gamble but Haliburton is treated as a finished product. The vibe I get from Haliburton is that he's a gym rat and really it's hard to even put a ceiling on him years down the road. His potential is actually higher than Hayes since he's coming into the league with more polished skills and the age difference is just over 1 year. The only reason you say Haliburton is a safe pick is because you feel confident in his ability to step on the NBA court and provide some impact from day 1 but at the end of the day he's still going to be a young rookie with a bunch of improving left.


You are pointing out a fact people sometimes ignore or downplay. Other than 1 or 2 guys a draft, most of these guys are so young it's going to take a few years anyway. 90% of them are "projects" to some degree or another.


And most of them turn out into busts who teams give up on shortly after drafting them and they go from team to team being terrible NBA players with maybe a potential to find a role somewhere as a bench piece


That's a lot of drafts, yup.

I think it's worth taking a shot on projects if the "project" projects high level. At a certain point in the draft, or based on team needs, quite often it's better to take that "safe" pick with less theoretical "upside", so at the very least the floor is safer to reach. And anyway, since these are humans, the "safe" guy sometimes develops and is better than some touted projects anyway.

Not easy; guys who get paid a lot to do it as a job mess this up all the time.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#959 » by robillionaire » Thu May 14, 2020 4:54 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:If Frank could put in some work and shoot over 38% from 3 like lonzo did he'd be a great NBA player. Going into year 4, still waiting


agreed, still a long way to go but he did take his TS% from 42% last year to 50% this year. That is a huge jump in one season. His FT% also went from 77% last year to 86% and he shot 32% from 3 a career high (which is still need to greatly improve). He also made 43% of his drives up from 39% last year.

So we did see improvement. Obviously not at the rate we all hoped. The 3 pt % need to get near the high 30's though. 100% agree there I would be shocked if he wasn't over 35% next year with the way he has improved in the other facets of his game (slowly :lol: )


Oh yeah, to his credit he has improved. Still waiting for that big leap to happen. We might have finally been on the cusp of seeing it before the season ended. He just had his best career game. Even if it's just continued slow improvement I really want Frank to be on this team long term and I hope we can retain him in some capacity
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4) 

Post#960 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu May 14, 2020 4:54 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I was speaking more on how they play offense in terms of low usage lead guard style. They may play different but ultimately there results kind of produce similar results. Frank has a 16.5 usage which is obviously low for a lead guard. Lonzo for being a point has a career usage of 17.7 which is very low as well. When you have many of the point guards in the NBA in the 30's and high 20's...in terms of usage.

That was mostly what I was referring to.

Even still I don't see it. Lonzo's production is superior compared to Frank even with similar usage. Lonzo is averaging 12.4 PPG 6.2 rebounds and 7.0 assists. Frank is averaging 6.3 PPG 2.1 rebounds 3.0 assists. Significant difference between them two. I'd imagine Lonzo's numbers would be even higher if he wasn't playing next to Jrue Holiday, who he also shares ball handling duties with.


I think it would be fairer to use there per 36 in that case. Frank was a 20 min a night guy while Lonzo was 32. Franks per 36 is like 11 ppg 5 assists and 4 rebounds.

Now I'm not comparing there offensive skill set because Lonzo beats him in basically every category offesively (lonzo also took a major step this year into being a really good player). Just using it as a style of play. big pg, low usage, low shot attempts...rather then the high scoring, high usage, high shot attempt guard.

I don’t get the point of using per 36 when very few players plays 36 minutes per game in the league.
If you compare Franks and Lonzo’s per 36 there is still quite a big difference. If Frank was producing like Lonzo then trust me, we would know and wouldn’t be calling for the Knicks to draft a PG :lol:
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