2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[god shammgod]

LiAngelo with him

that's part of the deal we made to get him to talk sh*t about the other teams. he's the new chris smith. let lavar work.

[mpharris36]

Even still I don't see it. Lonzo's production is superior compared to Frank even with similar usage. Lonzo is averaging 12.4 PPG 6.2 rebounds and 7.0 assists. Frank is averaging 6.3 PPG 2.1 rebounds 3.0 assists. Significant difference between them two. I'd imagine Lonzo's numbers would be even higher if he wasn't playing next to Jrue Holiday, who he also shares ball handling duties with.

I think it would be fairer to use there per 36 in that case. Frank was a 20 min a night guy while Lonzo was 32. Franks per 36 is like 11 ppg 5 assists and 4 rebounds.

Now I'm not comparing there offensive skill set because Lonzo beats him in basically every category offesively (lonzo also took a major step this year into being a really good player). Just using it as a style of play. big pg, low usage, low shot attempts...rather then the high scoring, high usage, high shot attempt guard.

I don’t get the point of using per 36 when very few players plays 36 minutes per game in the league.
If you compare Franks and Lonzo’s per 36 there is still quite a big difference. If Frank was producing like Lonzo then trust me, we would know and wouldn’t be calling for the Knicks to draft a PG

frank isn't producing like lonzo hence "poor mans" but his offensive play style and usage are very similar in his minutes even if they are as a backup and lonzo's are as a starter.

I was just using that as a comp that Haliburton will frustrate some because he plays a similar style. He is not going to turn the corner and get into the paint on a regular basis because he doesn't have advance handle or the quickness to regularly in the paint. He is a nice compliment to RJ's brusining style though because Haliburton can play on and off the ball and knock down a shot and run an offense. He's just not going to be the high level playmaker some are craving for. That just not his game.

But he's very effective and he's a good defensive player (so I do like that about him as well).

[mpharris36]

LiAngelo with him

that's part of the deal we made to get him to talk sh*t about the other teams. he's the new chris smith. let lavar work.

do not compare LiAngelo Ball to Da Gawd!

You deserve a suspension for disrespecting his name

[mpharris36]

If Frank could put in some work and shoot over 38% from 3 like lonzo did he'd be a great NBA player. Going into year 4, still waiting

agreed, still a long way to go but he did take his TS% from 42% last year to 50% this year. That is a huge jump in one season. His FT% also went from 77% last year to 86% and he shot 32% from 3 a career high (which is still need to greatly improve). He also made 43% of his drives up from 39% last year.

So we did see improvement. Obviously not at the rate we all hoped. The 3 pt % need to get near the high 30's though. 100% agree there I would be shocked if he wasn't over 35% next year with the way he has improved in the other facets of his game (slowly )

Oh yeah, to his credit he has improved. Still waiting for that big leap to happen. We might have finally been on the cusp of seeing it before the season ended. He just had his best career game. Even if it's just continued slow improvement I really want Frank to be on this team long term and I hope we can retain him in some capacity

ideally I would love to sign him to a long term low value contract. With the cap going down next year. I think give him an extension at that time might be wise for a smaller annual but longer year because at minimum he has shown to be a worth while 20 minute a night bench piece at 21.

[3toheadmelo]

I think it would be fairer to use there per 36 in that case. Frank was a 20 min a night guy while Lonzo was 32. Franks per 36 is like 11 ppg 5 assists and 4 rebounds.

Now I'm not comparing there offensive skill set because Lonzo beats him in basically every category offesively (lonzo also took a major step this year into being a really good player). Just using it as a style of play. big pg, low usage, low shot attempts...rather then the high scoring, high usage, high shot attempt guard.

I don’t get the point of using per 36 when very few players plays 36 minutes per game in the league.
If you compare Franks and Lonzo’s per 36 there is still quite a big difference. If Frank was producing like Lonzo then trust me, we would know and wouldn’t be calling for the Knicks to draft a PG

frank isn't producing like lonzo hence "poor mans" but his offensive play style and usage are very similar in his minutes even if they are as a backup and lonzo's are as a starter.

I was just using that as a comp that Haliburton will frustrate some because he plays a similar style. He is not going to turn the corner and get into the paint on a regular basis because he doesn't have advance handle or the quickness to regularly in the paint. He is a nice compliment to RJ's brusining style though because Haliburton can play on and off the ball and knock down a shot and run an offense. He's just not going to be the high level playmaker some are craving for. That just not his game.

But he's very effective and he's a good defensive player (so I do like that about him as well).

I just don’t see it all bro. Lol. Their playing styles are significantly different and so is their production. Only thing similar is their usage. But that doesn’t mean anything if you aren’t producing like Lonzo.

Haliburton stats are extremely similar to Lonzo in college and their playing styles/body builds are very similar. I don’t see how he is not going to be a high level play maker like Lonzo.

[robillionaire]

if we can keep ron baker around for 3 years we can bring on gelo. get it done rose

[god shammgod]

I think it would be fairer to use there per 36 in that case. Frank was a 20 min a night guy while Lonzo was 32. Franks per 36 is like 11 ppg 5 assists and 4 rebounds.

Now I'm not comparing there offensive skill set because Lonzo beats him in basically every category offesively (lonzo also took a major step this year into being a really good player). Just using it as a style of play. big pg, low usage, low shot attempts...rather then the high scoring, high usage, high shot attempt guard.

I don’t get the point of using per 36 when very few players plays 36 minutes per game in the league.
If you compare Franks and Lonzo’s per 36 there is still quite a big difference. If Frank was producing like Lonzo then trust me, we would know and wouldn’t be calling for the Knicks to draft a PG

frank isn't producing like lonzo hence "poor mans" but his offensive play style and usage are very similar in his minutes even if they are as a backup and lonzo's are as a starter.

I was just using that as a comp that Haliburton will frustrate some because he plays a similar style. He is not going to turn the corner and get into the paint on a regular basis because he doesn't have advance handle or the quickness to regularly in the paint. He is a nice compliment to RJ's brusining style though because Haliburton can play on and off the ball and knock down a shot and run an offense. He's just not going to be the high level playmaker some are craving for. That just not his game.

But he's very effective and he's a good defensive player (so I do like that about him as well).

i really don't understand the people that want haliburton. how many guards that can't create for themselves does one team need ? it's like you all want to draft a backup frank in case the first one doesn't work out. 2 franks, no mustard.

[mpharris36]

I don’t get the point of using per 36 when very few players plays 36 minutes per game in the league.
If you compare Franks and Lonzo’s per 36 there is still quite a big difference. If Frank was producing like Lonzo then trust me, we would know and wouldn’t be calling for the Knicks to draft a PG

frank isn't producing like lonzo hence "poor mans" but his offensive play style and usage are very similar in his minutes even if they are as a backup and lonzo's are as a starter.

I was just using that as a comp that Haliburton will frustrate some because he plays a similar style. He is not going to turn the corner and get into the paint on a regular basis because he doesn't have advance handle or the quickness to regularly in the paint. He is a nice compliment to RJ's brusining style though because Haliburton can play on and off the ball and knock down a shot and run an offense. He's just not going to be the high level playmaker some are craving for. That just not his game.

But he's very effective and he's a good defensive player (so I do like that about him as well).

i really don't understand the people that want haliburton. how many guards that can't create for themselves does one team need ? it's like you all want to draft a backup frank in case the first one doesn't work out. 2 franks, no mustard.

well that is what I was trying to explain to melo. Haliburton is more talented than Frank on offense no question. But his play style is similar. He's a spot up shooter, ball distributor, team player, good defense. He has zero mid range and he's not someone you can just say give him the ball and make a play.

He's a secondary ball handler. That would be my overall concern...you would have Haliburton a secondary guy, and RJ who ideally is a secondary guy.

You would still need a main guy. You would still need the guy to be the main dog.

[3toheadmelo]

I don’t get the point of using per 36 when very few players plays 36 minutes per game in the league.
If you compare Franks and Lonzo’s per 36 there is still quite a big difference. If Frank was producing like Lonzo then trust me, we would know and wouldn’t be calling for the Knicks to draft a PG

frank isn't producing like lonzo hence "poor mans" but his offensive play style and usage are very similar in his minutes even if they are as a backup and lonzo's are as a starter.

I was just using that as a comp that Haliburton will frustrate some because he plays a similar style. He is not going to turn the corner and get into the paint on a regular basis because he doesn't have advance handle or the quickness to regularly in the paint. He is a nice compliment to RJ's brusining style though because Haliburton can play on and off the ball and knock down a shot and run an offense. He's just not going to be the high level playmaker some are craving for. That just not his game.

But he's very effective and he's a good defensive player (so I do like that about him as well).

i really don't understand the people that want haliburton. how many guards that can't create for themselves does one team need ? it's like you all want to draft a backup frank in case the first one doesn't work out. 2 franks, no mustard.

Causes he’s not Frank at all. He’s more Lonzo

[3toheadmelo]

Haliburton even had a stretch of games where he averaged 22/7/7. Frank has never posted those numbers in any stretch of his career.

Watch on YouTube

[god shammgod]

frank isn't producing like lonzo hence "poor mans" but his offensive play style and usage are very similar in his minutes even if they are as a backup and lonzo's are as a starter.

I was just using that as a comp that Haliburton will frustrate some because he plays a similar style. He is not going to turn the corner and get into the paint on a regular basis because he doesn't have advance handle or the quickness to regularly in the paint. He is a nice compliment to RJ's brusining style though because Haliburton can play on and off the ball and knock down a shot and run an offense. He's just not going to be the high level playmaker some are craving for. That just not his game.

But he's very effective and he's a good defensive player (so I do like that about him as well).

i really don't understand the people that want haliburton. how many guards that can't create for themselves does one team need ? it's like you all want to draft a backup frank in case the first one doesn't work out. 2 franks, no mustard.

Causes he’s not Frank at all. He’s more Lonzo

there is a similarity between all 3. frank is just the worst one. if frank had better vision and those 3s went in more there would be little difference. the knicks need a guard who can score in multiple ways.

[3toheadmelo]

i really don't understand the people that want haliburton. how many guards that can't create for themselves does one team need ? it's like you all want to draft a backup frank in case the first one doesn't work out. 2 franks, no mustard.

Causes he’s not Frank at all. He’s more Lonzo

there is a similarity between all 3. frank is just the worst one. if frank had better vision and those 3s went in more there would be little difference. the knicks need a guard who can score in multiple ways.

Yeah well Frank doesnt have better vision and no 3 ball. Which is why theres no similarity

[3toheadmelo]

Look if we going PG in this draft (which we most likely are) then give me one of Lamelo/Hayes/Haliburton. Stay away from Coleslaw.

[robillionaire]

Haliburton even had a stretch of games where he averaged 22/7/7. Frank has never posted those numbers in any stretch of his career.

Watch on YouTube

frank has always played against tougher competition he never got to be a year 2 college player at age 20

[mpharris36]

frank isn't producing like lonzo hence "poor mans" but his offensive play style and usage are very similar in his minutes even if they are as a backup and lonzo's are as a starter.

I was just using that as a comp that Haliburton will frustrate some because he plays a similar style. He is not going to turn the corner and get into the paint on a regular basis because he doesn't have advance handle or the quickness to regularly in the paint. He is a nice compliment to RJ's brusining style though because Haliburton can play on and off the ball and knock down a shot and run an offense. He's just not going to be the high level playmaker some are craving for. That just not his game.

But he's very effective and he's a good defensive player (so I do like that about him as well).

i really don't understand the people that want haliburton. how many guards that can't create for themselves does one team need ? it's like you all want to draft a backup frank in case the first one doesn't work out. 2 franks, no mustard.

Causes he’s not Frank at all. He’s more Lonzo

I mean if Haliburton was Lonzo he wouldn't be mocked in a weaker class in the 6-10 range. There are some similarities but he is not the athlete lonzo is which is a huge difference. Haliburton is much more of a Frank level athlete than a Lonzo level athlete.

[jvsimonetti0514]

OK so I kind of want to do these video comparison threads.

Cole Anthony Comps to Jason Terry

Watch on YouTube

This is tougher to do due to the tape. Cole played PG at UNC and think that it was a mistake that hurt both them and him. He should have been SG and told to score and get his. He really only looks elite when you see him with the ball and then score on his defender in a variety of ways. Cole can pass the ball, but doesn't have the vision to see the plays for others. However, I do think he is an instant scorer in the NBA.

Watch on YouTube

Cole will be a legit NBA scorer, he has both a good overall shot, he's not scared of contact when driving, he's not slow. He can score off the dribble, score in transition, he can catch and shoot, and I am pretty sure he'll be able to stop in transition and shoot over defenders. The only real knock to his game is his height. SG's tend to be taller and PG's shorter. If Cole was 6'5 he and had a 6'8 wingspan he would be the 1st pick in this draft. Shorter SG's come with some inherent issues, he also doesn't have elite wingspan for his size like CJ McCollum (6'6). Cole, defense is underrated. If defending PG's he'll do alright.

Watch on YouTube

I see the appeal and the reasoning to comparing him to Donovan Mitchell. The Jazz has paired Donovan with PG's (and point forward Joe Ingles) and allowed him to focus on scoring. The rumors seem to indicate that the Knicks would be prepared to find a PG too. I mean you can see the reasoning that had them thinking CP3 could be traded for to come in and be Cole's backcourt partner. The issue is Cole isn't Donovan Mitchell. I just don't think Cole has Donovan's elite handle. or his elite athleticism. Its those two factors combined that allow Donovan to function at a high level when he's driving into traffic. That's why I have Cole pegged as Jason Terry. Who was actually an elite player in relation to his shooting and a Championship SG. I don't think Cole will be able to play through contact the way Donovan did early in his career and go to the bucket. He's going to be focused on shooting. I actually think it would be wise for him to try and get to his shooting spots faster and also try to outrun defenders on his way to the basket instead.

Also, the knicks would once again not have a PG, and need to find a stopgap or a permanent one later. Cole could maybe eventually play PG, but its a waste of his potential to ask him to focus on avg say 5 assists a game when he is built to be a scorer.

I really like the Terry comp for Cole. I also think Lou Williams and Jamal Murray fit well too. I think he has microwave scorer/ 6 man written all over him as a floor. His catch and shoot numbers are pretty good so I don’t think you have to force the ball in his hands. If he can improve his playmaking it will definitely raise his ceiling. I’ve read that he was a better playmaker in high school when surrounded by better talent than he had at UNC. We just saw how bad roster construction can hold players back so I’m sure a lot of talent evaluators are hoping that’s the case with him too.

I don't know if his shooting is on the level of Terry though. Terry is 7th all time in made 3s, he was 3rd all time for a while behind ray allen and reggie miller before recently getting passed up by steph, harden, korver, and vince carter. in other words he's one of the best shooters the game has seen, cole seems like he will be a decent shooter 34.8 wasn't too bad especially with his shot selection and degree of difficulty on some of the attempts at UNC. but I don't see him as an elite shooting talent like terry. terry was also garbage on defense and I think cole may have a bit better athleticism

anyway, if this is the kind of player he is, a SG and 6th man, we're once again still scrambling for a PG. I'm still expecting 2016 derrick rose.

Post knees Rose has turned himself into decent starter/ great 6th man. He was awesome last year with the Pistons. so I don’t think we’re that far off in players comps for his impact. FWIW Terry didn’t get minutes until his sophomore year in college but he shot 33% from three. His averages when his first few years with the Hawks was 36%. I could see Cole replicating something similar to those numbers. We’d be super lucky if got to that 40% that Terry did for a few seasons later in his career.

[god shammgod]

Causes he’s not Frank at all. He’s more Lonzo

there is a similarity between all 3. frank is just the worst one. if frank had better vision and those 3s went in more there would be little difference. the knicks need a guard who can score in multiple ways.

Yeah well Frank doesnt have better vision and no 3 ball. Which is why theres no similarity

you know damn well what mpharris and me are saying. you can admit this is true and still sh*t on frank.

frank is like the picture of the caveman on the evolution chart before he becomes the human which is lonzo

[mpharris36]

Haliburton even had a stretch of games where he averaged 22/7/7. Frank has never posted those numbers in any stretch of his career.

Watch on YouTube

that comparison makes zero sense my guy. You are comparing a player playing 35 minutes a night against kids his age vs a kid that was player professional ball.

If there was any comparison to Haliburton level of play to Franks level of competition it would be the U18 Frank played in

Ntilikina finished the tournament averaging 22.7 points, 6.7 assists, 3.2 steals, 1.7 blocks and 5.0 turnovers per 40 minutes on 42.4% from two-point range and 58.6% from three-point range. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Frank-Ntilikina-77051/ ©DraftExpress

[god shammgod]

haliburton is just frank who learned how to make fire and got a spear in case sh*t pops off with a woolly mammoth or whatever.

[mpharris36]

there is a similarity between all 3. frank is just the worst one. if frank had better vision and those 3s went in more there would be little difference. the knicks need a guard who can score in multiple ways.

Yeah well Frank doesnt have better vision and no 3 ball. Which is why theres no similarity

you know damn well what mpharris and me are saying. you can admit this is true and still sh*t on frank.

frank is like the picture of the caveman on the evolution chart before he becomes the human which is lonzo

yeah I do feel like just even mentioning them in the same sentence is making melo hesitant to compare them but there play styles as being ultimate glue secondary pieces still remain the same. While frank offesnively is on a far left of the spectrum while Lonzo took a big leap this year. They still hold that ultimate glue guy role. Simply because when you need a bucket or a play made in the half court they just aren't guys you can rely on.

Lonzo had a really good year and its not unrelated to playing with Zion which they are both great in transition.

But ultimately if you are looking for that alpha personality that guy that can take over a game a guy that can say GTFO of my way and let me either make a play for myself or a teammate. Lonzo, Haliburton, and to a far lesser extent Frank aren't those guys. They are system PG's.