2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[RHODEY]

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synergy ranked haliburton in the 32nd percentile as a P&R ball handler with about .64 ppp and 38% with about .68 ppp in ISO...that isn't a lead dog.

On the other hand dude ranked 99% in both catch and shoot and 99% in transition. He is the ultimate glue PG.

not a big risk taker, quick decision maker, doesn't let the ball stick, swing a lot of passes around the perimeter...what am I missing here?

His game isn't "sexy"...and that's cardinal sin

im just trying to temper expectations. I actually think Haliburton and RJ would work really well off each other. But if Frank could shoot it at a signficantly higher clip they would well together too

which is ultimately my point. If you want a system PG haliburton is a great option...does everything well, nothing really exceptional. If your trying to shoot for the stars someone like LaMelo or to a lesser extent Killian Hayes have some more upside because they project more as lead playmakers at there best.

I hear you. But there might me a grey area. Guys that look like solid role players but end up borderline stars. They are rare (SGA is one example) but they do pop up from time to time. Can Haliburton be one of these? I think its possible - I said it before but he's got a bit of an xfactor to him.

[mpharris36]

Are you really saying that SGA would have put up better numbers in college than Haliburton if he went to a different team?

I don't know, but I don't think that is a far fetched seeing how he was playing with Knox, PJ Washingotn, and Hami. All those guys scored 10+ ppg...they believe in a balance approach because every year they bring in a lot of talent.

If he was say somewhere with no NBA talent...he very well could have put up bigger numbers in college (he nearly avg the same numbers as haliburton in his freshman year as Tyrese did in his soph year).

[robillionaire]

so funny seeing a lot of you trash the front office and say they fall for the same patterns when y’all the fans fall for the same patterns too with terrible players.

in what world do you think lavar ball having a platform again works? we’ve already seen it explode wit the lakers, the team became a joke and lonzo still hasn’t recovered from being “lavars son”

lather, rinse, repeat with a lot of you.

Wrong about Stephen Curry
Wrong about Trae
Wrong about Ja
Will be wrong about Lamelo

Rinse lather repeat

[HEZI]

Are you really saying that SGA would have put up better numbers in college than Haliburton if he went to a different team?

I don't know, but I don't think that is a far fetched seeing how he was playing with Knox, PJ Washingotn, and Hami. All those guys scored 10+ ppg...they believe in a balance approach because every year they bring in a lot of talent.

If he was say somewhere with no NBA talent...he very well could have put up bigger numbers in college (he nearly avg the same numbers as haliburton in his freshman year as Tyrese did in his soph year).

It's a lot harder to consistently put up numbers and carry a team when you have lesser talent and less help around you. As much as you say SGA was held back because of the balance at UK he also benefited from it A LOT. PJ Washington was a beast inside and Knox was a threat from the perimeter. Diallo was inconsistent but he brought energy and deserved a good amount of focus from opponents. SGA really benefited having those guys around him. I don't think he was good enough to do better than Haliburton has for his team. Maybe he could match his production but don't see him doing better. SGA really struggled shooting and even now he's not really a reliable shooter, capable of hitting shots but he's not reliable. Haliburton's efficiency was on a historic level and he's in a rare category

[mpharris36]

Are you really saying that SGA would have put up better numbers in college than Haliburton if he went to a different team?

I don't know, but I don't think that is a far fetched seeing how he was playing with Knox, PJ Washingotn, and Hami. All those guys scored 10+ ppg...they believe in a balance approach because every year they bring in a lot of talent.

If he was say somewhere with no NBA talent...he very well could have put up bigger numbers in college (he nearly avg the same numbers as haliburton in his freshman year as Tyrese did in his soph year).

It's a lot harder to consistently put up numbers and carry a team when you have lesser talent and less help around you. As much as you say SGA was held back because of the balance at UK he also benefited from it A LOT. PJ Washington was a beast inside and Knox was a threat from the perimeter. Diallo was inconsistent but he brought energy and deserved a good amount of focus from opponents. SGA really benefited having those guys around him. I don't think he was good enough to do better than Haliburton has for his team. Maybe he could match his production but don't see him doing better. SGA really struggled shooting and even now he's not really a reliable shooter, capable of hitting shots but he's not reliable. Haliburton's efficiency was on a historic level and he's in a rare category

I think its a bit of ying and yang don't you think. I think it always helps playing with better players because it opens up more opportunities but if you simply have to share the offensive load you could also have limited opportunities overall. Like % wise they probably are pretty successful but usage and attemps wise they probably could get more elsewhere.

Thats like saying KAT and Booker who avg 10 ppg in college if they went somewhere they were the only NBA caliber player they would avg more than 10ppg?

Like I said it could be a little of both but Kentucky does have a history of minimizing there talent for the greater good of the team because they have so many top tier weapons.

[Deeeez Knicks]

I don't know, but I don't think that is a far fetched seeing how he was playing with Knox, PJ Washingotn, and Hami. All those guys scored 10+ ppg...they believe in a balance approach because every year they bring in a lot of talent.

If he was say somewhere with no NBA talent...he very well could have put up bigger numbers in college (he nearly avg the same numbers as haliburton in his freshman year as Tyrese did in his soph year).

It's a lot harder to consistently put up numbers and carry a team when you have lesser talent and less help around you. As much as you say SGA was held back because of the balance at UK he also benefited from it A LOT. PJ Washington was a beast inside and Knox was a threat from the perimeter. Diallo was inconsistent but he brought energy and deserved a good amount of focus from opponents. SGA really benefited having those guys around him. I don't think he was good enough to do better than Haliburton has for his team. Maybe he could match his production but don't see him doing better. SGA really struggled shooting and even now he's not really a reliable shooter, capable of hitting shots but he's not reliable. Haliburton's efficiency was on a historic level and he's in a rare category

I think its a bit of ying and yang don't you think. I think it always helps playing with better players because it opens up more opportunities but if you simply have to share the offensive load you could also have limited opportunities overall. Like % wise they probably are pretty successful but usage and attemps wise they probably could get more elsewhere.

Thats like saying KAT and Booker who avg 10 ppg in college if they went somewhere they were the only NBA caliber player they would avg more than 10ppg?

Like I said it could be a little of both but Kentucky does have a history of minimizing there talent for the greater good of the team because they have so many top tier weapons.

SGA started slow, but came on late and was great in March in the tournaments. He avg 20ppg, 6assist, 52%fg, 44%3pt in the last 7 games. He took over the team. I dont know how the Knicks were scouting Kentucky and thought Knox was better.

[robillionaire]

I don't know, but I don't think that is a far fetched seeing how he was playing with Knox, PJ Washingotn, and Hami. All those guys scored 10+ ppg...they believe in a balance approach because every year they bring in a lot of talent.

If he was say somewhere with no NBA talent...he very well could have put up bigger numbers in college (he nearly avg the same numbers as haliburton in his freshman year as Tyrese did in his soph year).

It's a lot harder to consistently put up numbers and carry a team when you have lesser talent and less help around you. As much as you say SGA was held back because of the balance at UK he also benefited from it A LOT. PJ Washington was a beast inside and Knox was a threat from the perimeter. Diallo was inconsistent but he brought energy and deserved a good amount of focus from opponents. SGA really benefited having those guys around him. I don't think he was good enough to do better than Haliburton has for his team. Maybe he could match his production but don't see him doing better. SGA really struggled shooting and even now he's not really a reliable shooter, capable of hitting shots but he's not reliable. Haliburton's efficiency was on a historic level and he's in a rare category

I think its a bit of ying and yang don't you think. I think it always helps playing with better players because it opens up more opportunities but if you simply have to share the offensive load you could also have limited opportunities overall. Like % wise they probably are pretty successful but usage and attemps wise they probably could get more elsewhere.

Thats like saying KAT and Booker who avg 10 ppg in college if they went somewhere they were the only NBA caliber player they would avg more than 10ppg?

Like I said it could be a little of both but Kentucky does have a history of minimizing there talent for the greater good of the team because they have so many top tier weapons.

makes you wonder if maxey is going to be a steal like booker, bam, herro, SGA, etc. Could also whiff like monk or knox. I think there's a lot of potential there with him though. I can say with confidence he was held back playing behind Hagans with the ball taken out of his hand and didn't show half of what he can do

[robillionaire]

Are you really saying that SGA would have put up better numbers in college than Haliburton if he went to a different team?

I don't know, but I don't think that is a far fetched seeing how he was playing with Knox, PJ Washingotn, and Hami. All those guys scored 10+ ppg...they believe in a balance approach because every year they bring in a lot of talent.

If he was say somewhere with no NBA talent...he very well could have put up bigger numbers in college (he nearly avg the same numbers as haliburton in his freshman year as Tyrese did in his soph year).

It's a lot harder to consistently put up numbers and carry a team when you have lesser talent and less help around you. As much as you say SGA was held back because of the balance at UK he also benefited from it A LOT. PJ Washington was a beast inside and Knox was a threat from the perimeter. Diallo was inconsistent but he brought energy and deserved a good amount of focus from opponents. SGA really benefited having those guys around him. I don't think he was good enough to do better than Haliburton has for his team. Maybe he could match his production but don't see him doing better. SGA really struggled shooting and even now he's not really a reliable shooter, capable of hitting shots but he's not reliable. Haliburton's efficiency was on a historic level and he's in a rare category

fwiw PJ Washington wasn't very good his first year, which is why he didn't go the nba. Really broke out year 2. But was disappointing year 1 when SGA was there

[mpharris36]

@karlImatyu: Are the Warriors high on (Onyeka) Okongwu? Mike Schmitz’ comparison of Bam (Adebayo) and Onyeka is really on point. He can immediately take Looney's spot and develop into a beast. Ton of potential.

Believe it or not, the Warriors are actually higher on Southern Cal’s Okongwu than James Wiseman. If they end up taking a big man in the top five, it’ll almost definitely be the 6-foot-9 Okongwu. His game is well-suited for the Warriors’ style. Unlike Wiseman, Okongwu can shuttle between multiple positions with ease.

from GSW beat writer Connor Letourneau

Hi melo

[mpharris36]

It's a lot harder to consistently put up numbers and carry a team when you have lesser talent and less help around you. As much as you say SGA was held back because of the balance at UK he also benefited from it A LOT. PJ Washington was a beast inside and Knox was a threat from the perimeter. Diallo was inconsistent but he brought energy and deserved a good amount of focus from opponents. SGA really benefited having those guys around him. I don't think he was good enough to do better than Haliburton has for his team. Maybe he could match his production but don't see him doing better. SGA really struggled shooting and even now he's not really a reliable shooter, capable of hitting shots but he's not reliable. Haliburton's efficiency was on a historic level and he's in a rare category

I think its a bit of ying and yang don't you think. I think it always helps playing with better players because it opens up more opportunities but if you simply have to share the offensive load you could also have limited opportunities overall. Like % wise they probably are pretty successful but usage and attemps wise they probably could get more elsewhere.

Thats like saying KAT and Booker who avg 10 ppg in college if they went somewhere they were the only NBA caliber player they would avg more than 10ppg?

Like I said it could be a little of both but Kentucky does have a history of minimizing there talent for the greater good of the team because they have so many top tier weapons.

SGA started slow, but came on late and was great in March in the tournaments. He avg 20ppg, 6assist, 52%fg, 44%3pt in the last 7 games. He took over the team. I dont know how the Knicks were scouting Kentucky and thought Knox was better.

is it really that hard to believe???

[robillionaire]

@karlImatyu: Are the Warriors high on (Onyeka) Okongwu? Mike Schmitz’ comparison of Bam (Adebayo) and Onyeka is really on point. He can immediately take Looney's spot and develop into a beast. Ton of potential.

Believe it or not, the Warriors are actually higher on Southern Cal’s Okongwu than James Wiseman. If they end up taking a big man in the top five, it’ll almost definitely be the 6-foot-9 Okongwu. His game is well-suited for the Warriors’ style. Unlike Wiseman, Okongwu can shuttle between multiple positions with ease.

from GSW beat writer Connor Letourneau

Hi melo

Nice, the window for a trade opportunity opens up a little wider

[HEZI]

I don't know, but I don't think that is a far fetched seeing how he was playing with Knox, PJ Washingotn, and Hami. All those guys scored 10+ ppg...they believe in a balance approach because every year they bring in a lot of talent.

If he was say somewhere with no NBA talent...he very well could have put up bigger numbers in college (he nearly avg the same numbers as haliburton in his freshman year as Tyrese did in his soph year).

It's a lot harder to consistently put up numbers and carry a team when you have lesser talent and less help around you. As much as you say SGA was held back because of the balance at UK he also benefited from it A LOT. PJ Washington was a beast inside and Knox was a threat from the perimeter. Diallo was inconsistent but he brought energy and deserved a good amount of focus from opponents. SGA really benefited having those guys around him. I don't think he was good enough to do better than Haliburton has for his team. Maybe he could match his production but don't see him doing better. SGA really struggled shooting and even now he's not really a reliable shooter, capable of hitting shots but he's not reliable. Haliburton's efficiency was on a historic level and he's in a rare category

I think its a bit of ying and yang don't you think. I think it always helps playing with better players because it opens up more opportunities but if you simply have to share the offensive load you could also have limited opportunities overall. Like % wise they probably are pretty successful but usage and attemps wise they probably could get more elsewhere.

Thats like saying KAT and Booker who avg 10 ppg in college if they went somewhere they were the only NBA caliber player they would avg more than 10ppg?

Like I said it could be a little of both but Kentucky does have a history of minimizing there talent for the greater good of the team because they have so many top tier weapons.

SGA did not lack opportunities at all whatsoever. He attempted 10 FGA in college whereas Haliburton attempted 11 shots. Shai gets just under 15 attempts a game in the NBA. How many shots do you think he would be putting up on another team? 20+?

[HEZI]

I don't know, but I don't think that is a far fetched seeing how he was playing with Knox, PJ Washingotn, and Hami. All those guys scored 10+ ppg...they believe in a balance approach because every year they bring in a lot of talent.

If he was say somewhere with no NBA talent...he very well could have put up bigger numbers in college (he nearly avg the same numbers as haliburton in his freshman year as Tyrese did in his soph year).

It's a lot harder to consistently put up numbers and carry a team when you have lesser talent and less help around you. As much as you say SGA was held back because of the balance at UK he also benefited from it A LOT. PJ Washington was a beast inside and Knox was a threat from the perimeter. Diallo was inconsistent but he brought energy and deserved a good amount of focus from opponents. SGA really benefited having those guys around him. I don't think he was good enough to do better than Haliburton has for his team. Maybe he could match his production but don't see him doing better. SGA really struggled shooting and even now he's not really a reliable shooter, capable of hitting shots but he's not reliable. Haliburton's efficiency was on a historic level and he's in a rare category

fwiw PJ Washington wasn't very good his first year, which is why he didn't go the nba. Really broke out year 2. But was disappointing year 1 when SGA was there

He was very good on the inside as a freshman and they relied on him as the go to bigman down there. His 2nd year he started to show more versatility and stepping out to the perimeter but on the inside he was just as good in year 1 as year 2.

[mpharris36]

It's a lot harder to consistently put up numbers and carry a team when you have lesser talent and less help around you. As much as you say SGA was held back because of the balance at UK he also benefited from it A LOT. PJ Washington was a beast inside and Knox was a threat from the perimeter. Diallo was inconsistent but he brought energy and deserved a good amount of focus from opponents. SGA really benefited having those guys around him. I don't think he was good enough to do better than Haliburton has for his team. Maybe he could match his production but don't see him doing better. SGA really struggled shooting and even now he's not really a reliable shooter, capable of hitting shots but he's not reliable. Haliburton's efficiency was on a historic level and he's in a rare category

I think its a bit of ying and yang don't you think. I think it always helps playing with better players because it opens up more opportunities but if you simply have to share the offensive load you could also have limited opportunities overall. Like % wise they probably are pretty successful but usage and attemps wise they probably could get more elsewhere.

Thats like saying KAT and Booker who avg 10 ppg in college if they went somewhere they were the only NBA caliber player they would avg more than 10ppg?

Like I said it could be a little of both but Kentucky does have a history of minimizing there talent for the greater good of the team because they have so many top tier weapons.

SGA did not lack opportunities at all whatsoever. He attempted 10 FGA in college whereas Haliburton attempted 11 shots. Shai gets just under 15 attempts a game in the NBA. How many shots do you think he would be putting up on another team? 20+?

I mean during the second half of the year he was close to avg near 15 shots per game in his rookie year. Early part of the year he kinda deferred and really turned it on later. Once conference play started SGA really started to pick up but those early games first 10-11 he really wasn't playing the same role.

I just don't think Haliburton will ever be a 15 attempt per game guy in the NBA thats just not his style or have the ability in the P&R or ISO to get his shot up.

He is more a jack of all trades guy...and very good at that. But he isn't ultimately going to be something totally different in the NBA.

[robillionaire]

It's a lot harder to consistently put up numbers and carry a team when you have lesser talent and less help around you. As much as you say SGA was held back because of the balance at UK he also benefited from it A LOT. PJ Washington was a beast inside and Knox was a threat from the perimeter. Diallo was inconsistent but he brought energy and deserved a good amount of focus from opponents. SGA really benefited having those guys around him. I don't think he was good enough to do better than Haliburton has for his team. Maybe he could match his production but don't see him doing better. SGA really struggled shooting and even now he's not really a reliable shooter, capable of hitting shots but he's not reliable. Haliburton's efficiency was on a historic level and he's in a rare category

I think its a bit of ying and yang don't you think. I think it always helps playing with better players because it opens up more opportunities but if you simply have to share the offensive load you could also have limited opportunities overall. Like % wise they probably are pretty successful but usage and attemps wise they probably could get more elsewhere.

Thats like saying KAT and Booker who avg 10 ppg in college if they went somewhere they were the only NBA caliber player they would avg more than 10ppg?

Like I said it could be a little of both but Kentucky does have a history of minimizing there talent for the greater good of the team because they have so many top tier weapons.

SGA started slow, but came on late and was great in March in the tournaments. He avg 20ppg, 6assist, 52%fg, 44%3pt in the last 7 games. He took over the team. I dont know how the Knicks were scouting Kentucky and thought Knox was better.

my guess is they thought they were set at the position with frank lol

[HEZI]

I think its a bit of ying and yang don't you think. I think it always helps playing with better players because it opens up more opportunities but if you simply have to share the offensive load you could also have limited opportunities overall. Like % wise they probably are pretty successful but usage and attemps wise they probably could get more elsewhere.

Thats like saying KAT and Booker who avg 10 ppg in college if they went somewhere they were the only NBA caliber player they would avg more than 10ppg?

Like I said it could be a little of both but Kentucky does have a history of minimizing there talent for the greater good of the team because they have so many top tier weapons.

SGA started slow, but came on late and was great in March in the tournaments. He avg 20ppg, 6assist, 52%fg, 44%3pt in the last 7 games. He took over the team. I dont know how the Knicks were scouting Kentucky and thought Knox was better.

is it really that hard to believe???

Knox was their project pick. They took him for "potential". Clearly Miles Bridges was the better player and better than Mikal and Knox but they saw the physical profile of Knox and thought they could mold him for the future. Can't really blame the FO on that one though, it's not like the RealGM consensus hit on their guy either. Mikal Bridges has been a bust also.

Also, this board didn't want SGA because they thought Frank was going to be it

[Deeeez Knicks]

SGA started slow, but came on late and was great in March in the tournaments. He avg 20ppg, 6assist, 52%fg, 44%3pt in the last 7 games. He took over the team. I dont know how the Knicks were scouting Kentucky and thought Knox was better.

is it really that hard to believe???

Knox was their project pick. They took him for "potential". Clearly Miles Bridges was the better player and better than Mikal and Knox but they saw the physical profile of Knox and thought they could mold him for the future. Can't really blame the FO on that one though, it's not like the RealGM consensus hit on their guy either. Mikal Bridges has been a bust also.

Also, this board didn't want SGA because they thought Frank was going to be it

Mikal hasnt been a bust.

Mikal >> Miles

[HEZI]

I think its a bit of ying and yang don't you think. I think it always helps playing with better players because it opens up more opportunities but if you simply have to share the offensive load you could also have limited opportunities overall. Like % wise they probably are pretty successful but usage and attemps wise they probably could get more elsewhere.

Thats like saying KAT and Booker who avg 10 ppg in college if they went somewhere they were the only NBA caliber player they would avg more than 10ppg?

Like I said it could be a little of both but Kentucky does have a history of minimizing there talent for the greater good of the team because they have so many top tier weapons.

SGA did not lack opportunities at all whatsoever. He attempted 10 FGA in college whereas Haliburton attempted 11 shots. Shai gets just under 15 attempts a game in the NBA. How many shots do you think he would be putting up on another team? 20+?

I mean during the second half of the year he was close to avg near 15 shots per game in his rookie year. Early part of the year he kinda deferred and really turned it on later. Once conference play started SGA really started to pick up but those early games first 10-11 he really wasn't playing the same role.

I just don't think Haliburton will ever be a 15 attempt per game guy in the NBA thats just not his style or have the ability in the P&R or ISO to get his shot up.

He is more a jack of all trades guy...and very good at that. But he isn't ultimately going to be something totally different in the NBA.

Depends on his role and what team he goes to. For example SGA wouldn't be that either if he stayed on the Clippers. OKC moved him to the 2 guard and had Chris Paul as primary ball handler and kept Shroeder on the bench. You think SGA is averaging 15 attempts a game on the Knicks with a team that has Randle, Morris and RJ Barrett? It aint happening.

[mpharris36]

SGA started slow, but came on late and was great in March in the tournaments. He avg 20ppg, 6assist, 52%fg, 44%3pt in the last 7 games. He took over the team. I dont know how the Knicks were scouting Kentucky and thought Knox was better.

is it really that hard to believe???

Knox was their project pick. They took him for "potential". Clearly Miles Bridges was the better player and better than Mikal and Knox but they saw the physical profile of Knox and thought they could mold him for the future. Can't really blame the FO on that one though, it's not like the RealGM consensus hit on their guy either. Mikal Bridges has been a bust also.

Also, this board didn't want SGA because they thought Frank was going to be it

SGA is more of a slashing scoring guard anyway. Both are tall with good wingspan to guard multiple positions. Frank and SGA could absolutely work together in the backcourt.

A lot on this board was high on SGA. I personally was ok with SGA and you know how much of a fan I am on Frank.

It was Mikal or SGA from my end.

[mpharris36]

SGA did not lack opportunities at all whatsoever. He attempted 10 FGA in college whereas Haliburton attempted 11 shots. Shai gets just under 15 attempts a game in the NBA. How many shots do you think he would be putting up on another team? 20+?

I mean during the second half of the year he was close to avg near 15 shots per game in his rookie year. Early part of the year he kinda deferred and really turned it on later. Once conference play started SGA really started to pick up but those early games first 10-11 he really wasn't playing the same role.

I just don't think Haliburton will ever be a 15 attempt per game guy in the NBA thats just not his style or have the ability in the P&R or ISO to get his shot up.

He is more a jack of all trades guy...and very good at that. But he isn't ultimately going to be something totally different in the NBA.

Depends on his role and what team he goes to. For example SGA wouldn't be that either if he stayed on the Clippers. OKC moved him to the 2 guard and had Chris Paul as primary ball handler and kept Shroeder on the bench. You think SGA is averaging 15 attempts a game on the Knicks with a team that has Randle, Morris and RJ Barrett? It aint happening.

lets be serious no one avgs 15 shots a game on a team that starts randle