Reggie Miller vs Klay Thompson

[Doctor MJ]

The greats understand that styles make fights. If you took Jordan and said ... stand in the corner and come off a pin down screen while we throw it into Cartwright you don't have the greatest shooting guard ever. Pat Riley had the Showtime Lakers but when he got to New York he realised he didn't have runners or scorers outside of Ewing so he ground the game to a halt and mugged you for four quarters and made sure his guys were so well conditioned that they were still fresh in the fourth while the opponent's legs turned to jelly.

Mark Jackson was a shockingly unimaginative coach who basically had no offence. He was worse at his job than Klay was at his.

Ooh. I like your analogy precisely because it's discrepant. In boxing you're talking about antagonistic relationships, but in basketball you're also talking about symbiotic relationships, and the truth is, thinking about one is a lot like thinking about the other. Either way, you're talking about something of a motor with complex moving parts that can must be made to facilitate success production.

I love that now we're in a historical great brain love fest. Yes, to me Riley became a legend when he succeeded in an entirely different way from his first success. And then the way he's transitioned to GMing building a very solid organization underneath him puts him right up there with West.

Re: shockingly unimaginative. I can't tell you how amazing it is when we see smart basketball players fail to grasp the structure of the team game beyond a set of rules they think they know.

By contrast, it doesn't surprise me that great players often get really frustrated as coaches. Being impatient with people who can't do what you think they should be able to do is rather the norm for human behavior. I can easily see great players not having the temperament to steer their players effectively in the right direction.

But not understand the structure of offensive play when you were an excellent pass-first point guard? I mean, that takes more than following a rule book. I would have thought that the wealth of knowledge in Jackson's head would include deeper understanding that it apparently took him to thrive as a player.

[Doctor MJ]

Reggie Miller but Klay does have a chance to pass Reggie if he can be more of a front man. He hasn't shown the passion and intensity Reggie naturally has.

Reggie was the star on a solid Indiana teams that has above average role players. Management never seemed dedicated to do what it takes to have more success. Reggie was always exciting to watch!

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I find Klay's personality to be an interesting thing, as is his father's. They both appear to bright, positive, joyful workers with physical talent, but both seem to be a bit rigid. I'm tempted to say a little on the spectrum in a way that helps them be laser-focused and develop great skill. I'm not going to say that Klay's mind makes him definitively unable to be THE star on his team, but if we're wondering if he's going to develop an aggressive initiative that the greats have, I wouldn't bet on it. I think he's going to have a great career - maybe even one that surpasses Miller based on astonishing longevity.

But Reggie Miller was Bugs Bunny. A trickster skilled in improvisation. I don't see Klay ever having that.

[Doctor MJ]

Mike Prada just wrote an article on Reggie, and it's very good.

https://mikeprada.substack.com/p/ahead-of-his-miller-time

That was an incredible multi-media piece. Wow.

It's astonishing what the internet has done for sports analysis and communication.

[cupcakesnake]

Klay is a better defender, but Reggie's ability to draw fouls makes him more of a multi-dimensional offensive threat. We've seen Reggie as the centerpiece of an offense and he could do it. We've only seen Klay getting his buckets playing off of really good players. If Klay has another gear in him, something approaching a Reggie level gear, we might never get to see it.

[bondom34]

Mike Prada just wrote an article on Reggie, and it's very good.

https://mikeprada.substack.com/p/ahead-of-his-miller-time

That was an incredible multi-media piece. Wow.

It's astonishing what the internet has done for sports analysis and communication.

Its a shame SB Nation laid off some of their best writers too. He has a newsletter now I think.

[Optms]

Reggie's numbers would be bonanza in this era. I think a better comparison would be Reggie or James Harden.

[Reeko]

Reggie's numbers would be bonanza in this era. I think a better comparison would be Reggie or James Harden.

When did Reggie ever display an ability to handle the ball or pass like Harden? Reggie was a very good scorer, James is going to go down as one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game.

[Doctor MJ]

Reggie's numbers would be bonanza in this era. I think a better comparison would be Reggie or James Harden.

When did Reggie ever display an ability to handle the ball or pass like Harden? Reggie was a very good scorer, James is going to go down as one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game.

Maybe check out the article we're responding to that's higher on the page. If you'd like to make rebuttals to that you certainly can, that article will help you understand how some of us see Reggie.

[90sAllDecade]

Reggie was definiely ahead of his time.

I value playoffs over regular season performance and Reggie in the postseason was must see TV some years. He consistenly elevated and was a pleasure to watch.

I have a lot of respect for Klay and his defense, but Reggie would take his game to another level and did it as a #1 option in the playoffs.

Watch on YouTube

[Optms]

Reggie's numbers would be bonanza in this era. I think a better comparison would be Reggie or James Harden.

When did Reggie ever display an ability to handle the ball or pass like Harden? Reggie was a very good scorer, James is going to go down as one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game.

Players don't need elite ball handling ability in today's game to be an elite player or even a good player though. Spacing is at an all-time high since defenders are no longer draped on you reducing visibility of the rim. Everything is pick and roll today or pick and pop. No one in NBA history moved better than Miller off the ball either.

Harden's game is basically 3 points, FT's and layups. That would basically be Miller only with better on the floor efficiency and slightly less FTs.

[Young Stapler]

Mike Prada just wrote an article on Reggie, and it's very good.

https://mikeprada.substack.com/p/ahead-of-his-miller-time

This was dope. Reggie is another very underrated player.

[prophet_of_rage]

Hamilton didn't have NBA 3 point range. He had college 3 point range and there was nothing wrong with midrange shots in the 00s. Miller did not pioneer the come off screen game. Most shooting guards played that way traditionally. What he did was perfect it.

I don't think coming off set screens was the "Miller" part of the game. That happened to be sure, but Miller made other players on the court shields who had no intention to be shields. That also wasn't something that was invented, but I'm not aware of anyone who did this so aggressively, and certainly not with the intention of getting a 3.

Re: nothing wrong with midrange in the '00s. The interesting part is that the paradigm shifter came in the '90s and clearly people were not telling Rip. People thought it was fine even though the guy they thought Rip resembled was very specifically motivated based on getting 3's.

Re: college shooting range. I really struggle with the idea that guys who shoot well in general and shot the college 3 comfortably can't learn to take the pro 3 comfortably. I get it if you're an old vet, but the idea that you would make the 3 a part of your game in college and then just decide not to make it part of your game in college is a strange thing to me.

There are comfort zones, strength issues, styles of play. You're shooting four feet back. It is a lot, especially when you factor in crowds, pressure, game chaos. He was a decent catch and shoot 3 point shooter, like Miller, but not off the move. Even Miller didn't have a real 3 point off the screen game. That was Ray Allen. Reggie just had a very quick catch and shoot. But he wasn't putting the ball down to shoot the 3 a lot.

[adubmac]

Larry Brown literally left the Pacers because he felt it was too hard to win with Reggie Miller as your number one option. Klay has proven himself on multiple championship teams and is the superior defender. The only thing he's missing is having a few memorable playoff moments in NY.

[Reeko]

Reggie's numbers would be bonanza in this era. I think a better comparison would be Reggie or James Harden.

When did Reggie ever display an ability to handle the ball or pass like Harden? Reggie was a very good scorer, James is going to go down as one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game.

Players don't need elite ball handling ability in today's game to be an elite player or even a good player though. Spacing is at an all-time high since defenders are no longer draped on you reducing visibility of the rim. Everything is pick and roll today or pick and pop. No one in NBA history moved better than Miller off the ball either.

Harden's game is basically 3 points, FT's and layups. That would basically be Miller only with better on the floor efficiency and slightly less FTs.

You know who I think of when you say that? Khris Middleton. Because, barring athletic freaks like Giannis and LeBron who have good but not necessarily great handles, the top perimeter players have very good handles: Steph, Harden, Doncic, Leonard, Irving, Lillard, Durant, Paul etc. So Reggie is a better or more creative version of Khris Middleton in today's era.

[BayWarrior]

Both are equal to me in every category except handles which is why I give Reggie the nod.

[Kabookalu]

Larry Brown literally left the Pacers because he felt it was too hard to win with Reggie Miller as your number one option. Klay has proven himself on multiple championship teams and is the superior defender. The only thing he's missing is having a few memorable playoff moments in NY.

He was also an archaic monument that hated the 3 point shot. Seemed like every team that he landed in his first demand was to get rid of all the 3 point shooters for defenders.

[dhsilv2]

Reggie's numbers would be bonanza in this era. I think a better comparison would be Reggie or James Harden.

When did Reggie ever display an ability to handle the ball or pass like Harden? Reggie was a very good scorer, James is going to go down as one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game.

Maybe check out the article we're responding to that's higher on the page. If you'd like to make rebuttals to that you certainly can, that article will help you understand how some of us see Reggie.

Wait, are you of the opinion that Reggie was on the Harden level as an offensive player? I'm all in on Reggie as an underrated offensive player, but he's not imo remotely close to a Harden type.

[rate_]

Wait, are you of the opinion that Reggie was on the Harden level as an offensive player? I'm all in on Reggie as an underrated offensive player, but he's not imo remotely close to a Harden type.

Harden has no off ball value offensively. Reggie can switch it up and his overall offensive is more adaptable in playoff settings. Harden is easier to scheme and gameplan for elite defensive teams because his game too on-ball:

3 year playoff run:
Harden: 31 pp75 +2 rTS
R Miller: 29 pp75 +11.5 rTS

Both at great volume but Miller much more efficient than Harden. Players like Wade, Kobe, Durant, Dirk, Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, West, Shaq, Kawhi, Curry all +5 with great volume in their 3 year playoff peak, while Harden is barely above average. Statpadding on bottom dwelling teams is not impressive for ATG scoring prowess.

[Doctor MJ]

When did Reggie ever display an ability to handle the ball or pass like Harden? Reggie was a very good scorer, James is going to go down as one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game.

Maybe check out the article we're responding to that's higher on the page. If you'd like to make rebuttals to that you certainly can, that article will help you understand how some of us see Reggie.

Wait, are you of the opinion that Reggie was on the Harden level as an offensive player? I'm all in on Reggie as an underrated offensive player, but he's not imo remotely close to a Harden type.

I think that's actually the key point: They aren't at all the same type of player.

I'm personally not predicting in particular about how he'd rank today, I just felt like Reeko needed context.

[Nazrmohamed]

Hamilton didn't have NBA 3 point range. He had college 3 point range and there was nothing wrong with midrange shots in the 00s. Miller did not pioneer the come off screen game. Most shooting guards played that way traditionally. What he did was perfect it.

I don't think coming off set screens was the "Miller" part of the game. That happened to be sure, but Miller made other players on the court shields who had no intention to be shields. That also wasn't something that was invented, but I'm not aware of anyone who did this so aggressively, and certainly not with the intention of getting a 3.

Re: nothing wrong with midrange in the '00s. The interesting part is that the paradigm shifter came in the '90s and clearly people were not telling Rip. People thought it was fine even though the guy they thought Rip resembled was very specifically motivated based on getting 3's.

Re: college shooting range. I really struggle with the idea that guys who shoot well in general and shot the college 3 comfortably can't learn to take the pro 3 comfortably. I get it if you're an old vet, but the idea that you would make the 3 a part of your game in college and then just decide not to make it part of your game in college is a strange thing to me.

Well his coach didn't read the memo so I don't think we can hold it against him. I argue this point when analytics guys argue over historical numbers. Pace alone can't account for everything. Physicality played a part although I think people point to only one aspect (handchecking) in error. But there's a third aspect which just isn't accounted for.

Its not about players being dumb or not understanding. Coaches didn't understand. Larry Brown especially. If you were a scoring guard his brain simply couldn't imagine that player being a PG or else Iverson wouldn't have been played at SG. And even then as a SG he didn't want you taking anywhere near the amount of 3s that guards do today or else you could find yourself a seat next to him.

"Play the right way"

Remember that? Forget getting a shot before the defense set. You had to wait until everyone set cuz the only good 3 was with your best shooter (1 guy) and it better be in the last 5 seconds of the 24 shot clock with both bigs set to rebound.

Its the twighlight zone compared to today. So my belief is that if given the green light to do so, Rip wouldve done it and I think he would've become great at it with practice of course. But fans often underrate players of old ability to adapt. Brook Lopez shoots 3s folks. Maybe not Reggie level but he's the closest to Reggie I've ever seen in terms of his approach to taking a shot. The shifting and ability to get open.