2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread

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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#721 » by jambalaya » Fri May 15, 2020 11:59 pm

Of course as a city in general; but in the eyes of NBA players, Toronto was not highly regarded til recently and still not because of weather, hassles and taxes by many.
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#722 » by getrichordie » Sat May 16, 2020 5:13 am

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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#723 » by getrichordie » Sat May 16, 2020 10:29 am

Spoiler:
jambalaya wrote:Fwiw, this is most of a post from Apbrmetrics board:

A project could be looking at four factor profiles of the team which GMs-to-be got their most training with vs. what their own teams looked like later as GM.

An example: Presti.

Looked at his 7 yrs with Spurs vs. 6 prime early years in OKC after 2 transition seasons.

Avg. Team relative offensive rating for prime Thunder was almost 300% of Spurs avg. during his stay there. Relative defensive rating only about 1/3rd as good.

At factor level avg. on offense, Thunder were ranked 5 spots worse on team efg% but still above league average. OR%, 13 spots worse and near bottom. Own turnovers, 8 spots better and above lg avg. On FT/FGA, 10 spots better and elite.

On defense, it was 6 spots worse on opp. Efg%, -7 on DR%, -12 on opp. TO and -13 on fouling.

So not much similarity. Worse in most ways, with dribble driving being the primary addition.

If your bread n butter is dribble driving, maybe keep / play 2-3 PGs with some aptitude for that. And get more. And / or learn to be good / great at other factors. Perhaps with a different / better coach.

He tried on defense but with less success. Mostly abandoned the emphasis on vets. Spurs didn't always emphasize shooters but when they won they apparently had enough. Both had draft luck and made good decisions. It is hard to sustain draft success.


It is odd looking that Presti came from an organization with perhaps one of the most empowered coaches ever and did what he did there. Insecurity, over-confidence or just less than great recruitment / judgment? (For the Spurs I guess Pop arranged it that way and would have changed it if it wasnt to his liking. Sure had all the coaching input on front decisions that he wanted. With Thunder it was never clear but always seemed low, probably too low. GM / Coaching worlds too separate. Could be wrong, but that is my impression. )

The story isn't finished but it is in the 13th chapter. Maybe the story climax is coming in the 17th chapter. Or 19th, 21st or...


(I followed the Sonics for 20 years without a title. Good times and some disappointment. Got my taste for titles with other teams, before and during but not after actually. Didn't ever really develop a secondary team after that, though I tried a little. Titles aren't everything but they are the organizing principal / goal for me.)


When you “coaching world is separate” are trying to say that OKC coaches don’t have as much input as Popovich?

If so, I can understand that. A lot of coaches around the league don’t have Popovich’s pull. I mean... it’s Popovich...
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#724 » by getrichordie » Sat May 16, 2020 1:59 pm

Only counting players that played 400+ minutes, Bazley ranks 36th in DPIPM so far, just ahead of Tatum and Valanciunas and right behind Bledsoe and Dellavedova. On the flipside, he ranks dead last in OPIPM, just behind Bembry and Hamidou.

I don't know how much the O-PIPM means though as we have 4 players in the bottom 10 (Bazley, Diallo, Nader, Ferguson). Bazley played about 1050+ minutes (not separate) with the other 3 and has played 910 minutes total.

241 with TF
278 with AN
357 with HD

...

2019 shai

-1.35 OPIPM
.01 DPIPM

2020 shai

1.85 OPIPM
-0.83 DPIPM

...

2018 ferg (88% at 2, 12% at 3)

-2.07 OPIPM
-1.56 DPIPM

2019 ferg (73% at 2, 26% at 3)

-1.57 OPIPM
-0.5 DPIPM

2020 ferg (2% at 2, 91% at 3, 7% at 4)

-3.08 OPIPM
-0.68 DPIPM
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#725 » by jambalaya » Sat May 16, 2020 6:18 pm

RPM also has Bazley with very bad offensive impact but only a slight positive defensive impact. RAPM is similar on offense but has him better on defense. LA-RAPM has him somewhat better than unadjusted RAPM on offense and somewhat less good on defense because of "luck". The basic portrait is similar across metrics- defensive biased.

Hopefully gets less bad on offense. 82games has him as bad at PF offense and horrendous as a SF. Currently I doubt he is a wing. Rather he is a young big who isn't heavy and probably has decent instincts & effort and adequate size / athleticism. On defense he is equally good against SFs and PFs so far.

He could be different next season. Probably between bad and average overall then. By 3rd or 4th year, it should be clearer.

For T Ferg, the numbers have moved around some but the basic evaluation is bad on offense and acceptable on D but not good.

SGA is less good on ORPM and better on DRPM than on PIPM. Similar differences on LA-RAPM compared to PIPM. Some ambiguity. For now, appears between average and good overall. Could be clearer next season.
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#726 » by ThunderBolt » Mon May 18, 2020 6:01 pm

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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#727 » by ThunderBolt » Mon May 18, 2020 8:20 pm

Remember that time Morey traded Houston's picks to OKC and then made his boss mad?

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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#728 » by getrichordie » Mon May 18, 2020 9:01 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:Remember that time Morey traded Houston's picks to OKC and then made his boss mad?

Read on Twitter


“It’s a trick a question...”

What the ****?
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#729 » by Galloisdaman » Thu May 28, 2020 5:43 pm

Looking like we may play Miami. I like that.
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#730 » by getrichordie » Thu May 28, 2020 10:24 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:Looking like we may play Miami. I like that.


That would be a fun matchup.I hope they use the format that KOC proposed. I think that would be super fun.
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#731 » by alessandrux » Fri May 29, 2020 12:00 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:Looking like we may play Miami. I like that.


That would be a fun matchup.I hope they use the format that KOC proposed. I think that would be super fun.


What format did he propose?
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#732 » by getrichordie » Fri May 29, 2020 12:15 pm

alessandrux wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:Looking like we may play Miami. I like that.


That would be a fun matchup.I hope they use the format that KOC proposed. I think that would be super fun.


What format did he propose?


Group stage (like soccer).
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#733 » by Galloisdaman » Fri May 29, 2020 12:29 pm

I prefer 1-16 to group stage in the NBA although I'm kind of being hypocritical because the NHL is allowing 2 of my teams in that may not have made it before and I'm happy about that.
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#734 » by getrichordie » Fri May 29, 2020 9:23 pm

Decided to re-watch G7 of WCF vs. 73-win GSW and I can't believe how Durant missed this shot so badly (@7:30). There was enough bad play from him late in the game to make one think he willingly played bad at times.

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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#735 » by Galloisdaman » Fri May 29, 2020 10:09 pm

getrichordie wrote:Decided to re-watch G7 of WCF vs. 73-win GSW and I can't believe how Durant missed this shot so badly (@7:30). There was enough bad play from him late in the game to make one think he willingly played bad at times.



Do you really think he would purposefully play bad when so close to being in the finals? He actually had a pretty good game overall. Only starter to shoot over 50% in that game. OKC actually won that 4th qtr by 3 points. It was the 3rd qtr where they got destroyed. The Warriors often had big 3rd quarters. OKC won the 1st, 2nd and 4th quarters but got killed in that 3rd quarter.
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#736 » by getrichordie » Fri May 29, 2020 10:23 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Decided to re-watch G7 of WCF vs. 73-win GSW and I can't believe how Durant missed this shot so badly (@7:30). There was enough bad play from him late in the game to make one think he willingly played bad at times.



Do you really think he would purposefully play bad when so close to being in the finals? He actually had a pretty good game overall. Only starter to shoot over 50% in that game. OKC actually won that 4th qtr by 3 points. It was the 3rd qtr where they got destroyed. The Warriors often had big 3rd quarters. OKC won the 1st, 2nd and 4th quarters but got killed in that 3rd quarter.


IDK. That's a good question. There were a lot of times where he just didn't give much effort on the defensive end. One play that stood out to me was one where he was in position to help Kanter guard Varejao (I think) and chose to just watch Varejao score over Kanter in the post.
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#737 » by bondom34 » Fri May 29, 2020 10:23 pm

Is it bad or weird I won't rewatch any of those games lol? Even the reg season one. It's traumatic.
FoundANewSlant wrote:it's really fundamental defensive flaws exhibited here by Westbrook, PG, and Adams that put Melo into vulnerable positions here yet you can't recognize or explain it.

So Paul George is the reason Carmelo Anthony struggled on defense all these years...
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#738 » by Galloisdaman » Fri May 29, 2020 11:35 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Decided to re-watch G7 of WCF vs. 73-win GSW and I can't believe how Durant missed this shot so badly (@7:30). There was enough bad play from him late in the game to make one think he willingly played bad at times.



Do you really think he would purposefully play bad when so close to being in the finals? He actually had a pretty good game overall. Only starter to shoot over 50% in that game. OKC actually won that 4th qtr by 3 points. It was the 3rd qtr where they got destroyed. The Warriors often had big 3rd quarters. OKC won the 1st, 2nd and 4th quarters but got killed in that 3rd quarter.


IDK. That's a good question. There were a lot of times where he just didn't give much effort on the defensive end. One play that stood out to me was one where he was in position to help Kanter guard Varejao (I think) and chose to just watch Varejao score over Kanter in the post.


Looking back at the box score. Durant actually had a really good offensive second half. 18 points including 12 in the 4th. I do not think he was trying to lose. What would he gain?
My eyes glaze over when reading alternative stat (not advanced stat) narratives that go many paragraphs long. If you can not make your point in 2 paragraphs it may not be a great point. :D
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#739 » by getrichordie » Fri May 29, 2020 11:42 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:
Do you really think he would purposefully play bad when so close to being in the finals? He actually had a pretty good game overall. Only starter to shoot over 50% in that game. OKC actually won that 4th qtr by 3 points. It was the 3rd qtr where they got destroyed. The Warriors often had big 3rd quarters. OKC won the 1st, 2nd and 4th quarters but got killed in that 3rd quarter.


IDK. That's a good question. There were a lot of times where he just didn't give much effort on the defensive end. One play that stood out to me was one where he was in position to help Kanter guard Varejao (I think) and chose to just watch Varejao score over Kanter in the post.


Looking back at the box score. Durant actually had a really good offensive second half. 18 points including 12 in the 4th. I do not think he was trying to lose. What would he gain?


Dough, if he’s a gambler. Maybe he thought it better to join a winner than a team he just beat? Could have had his mind made up already and there was some kind of conflict of interest going on?
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Re: 2019-20 OKC Thunder Regular Season Thread 

Post#740 » by Galloisdaman » Sat May 30, 2020 12:14 am

getrichordie wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
IDK. That's a good question. There were a lot of times where he just didn't give much effort on the defensive end. One play that stood out to me was one where he was in position to help Kanter guard Varejao (I think) and chose to just watch Varejao score over Kanter in the post.


Looking back at the box score. Durant actually had a really good offensive second half. 18 points including 12 in the 4th. I do not think he was trying to lose. What would he gain?


Dough, if he’s a gambler. Maybe he thought it better to join a winner than a team he just beat? Could have had his mind made up already and there was some kind of conflict of interest going on?


That is a bit out there. You think he would play well if he had a huge bet against his team? You think he is going to bet enough to compare to what he makes as a player? Why would he have to go join the Warriors if he just went to the Finals with a chance to win the finals? So he would lose to the Warriors on purpose to join them as winners? That is strange theory.
My eyes glaze over when reading alternative stat (not advanced stat) narratives that go many paragraphs long. If you can not make your point in 2 paragraphs it may not be a great point. :D

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