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Trade Talk (Part Four)

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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#61 » by minimus » Wed May 13, 2020 6:00 pm

Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:For this team, I do not think you can make up for a bad three point shooter at the PF spot with good three point shooting at other positions.

Take the Utah back-to-back this year. Rudy Gobert is one of the four great centers in the NBA, and Towns played him off the floor in their first meeting. The Jazz kept Gobert under the rim (where he is one of the best ever at altering shots), and Towns scorched him from the outside. The next night, to keep Gobert on the court, they actually had him chasing Towns around on the perimeter! This demonstrates how disruptive Towns can be with the correct pieces around him - the Jazz were even willing to play Gobert out of position.

This all goes away if we add a PF who is not a three point threat. The Jazz would have simply had Gobert defend, say, Taj Gibson, and any other Wolves player that drove to the hoop. They couldn’t do that if we had Covington, and I hope that any PF we add will be enough of a threat that the big slow centers like Gobert, Embiid, Jokic .. and especially guys like Gasol, Steven Adams, Kevin Love etc, will be neutralized when they face our front court.

I don't think it's fair to lump Gordon in with Gibson and say a team like Utah would defend him the same way. Gordon would drive and slash by him all game long.


I think that comes from incorrect perception of our offensive scheme. The thing is that all players on the floor should be able to attack the basket either by slashing or by shooting. They should be able to put pressure on defense by making difficult to defend them.

Taj, Saric, Tolliver, Dieng, Bell, Vonleh could not do it. Because they dont have such skills. Gordon has such skills. As for shooting, James Johnson is 31% career 3pt shooter. He averages 36.3% from 3pt line with us. He looks like a star we need in some games, because he is a good fit here. Gordon is not a good fit, he is an ideal fit. I wish his contract was one year longer though.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#62 » by shrink » Wed May 13, 2020 9:29 pm

Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:For this team, I do not think you can make up for a bad three point shooter at the PF spot with good three point shooting at other positions.

Take the Utah back-to-back this year. Rudy Gobert is one of the four great centers in the NBA, and Towns played him off the floor in their first meeting. The Jazz kept Gobert under the rim (where he is one of the best ever at altering shots), and Towns scorched him from the outside. The next night, to keep Gobert on the court, they actually had him chasing Towns around on the perimeter! This demonstrates how disruptive Towns can be with the correct pieces around him - the Jazz were even willing to play Gobert out of position.

This all goes away if we add a PF who is not a three point threat. The Jazz would have simply had Gobert defend, say, Taj Gibson, and any other Wolves player that drove to the hoop. They couldn’t do that if we had Covington, and I hope that any PF we add will be enough of a threat that the big slow centers like Gobert, Embiid, Jokic .. and especially guys like Gasol, Steven Adams, Kevin Love etc, will be neutralized when they face our front court.

I don't think it's fair to lump Gordon in with Gibson and say a team like Utah would defend him the same way. Gordon would drive and slash by him all game long.

The point is that Utah would keep Rudy Gobert underneath the basket vs either player. He’s not “going by” him - Utah wants him under the basket, altering the shots of either player, and as secondary defense vs KAT if he beats his man too.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#63 » by minimus » Thu May 14, 2020 8:29 am

shrink wrote:
Klomp wrote:
shrink wrote:For this team, I do not think you can make up for a bad three point shooter at the PF spot with good three point shooting at other positions.

Take the Utah back-to-back this year. Rudy Gobert is one of the four great centers in the NBA, and Towns played him off the floor in their first meeting. The Jazz kept Gobert under the rim (where he is one of the best ever at altering shots), and Towns scorched him from the outside. The next night, to keep Gobert on the court, they actually had him chasing Towns around on the perimeter! This demonstrates how disruptive Towns can be with the correct pieces around him - the Jazz were even willing to play Gobert out of position.

This all goes away if we add a PF who is not a three point threat. The Jazz would have simply had Gobert defend, say, Taj Gibson, and any other Wolves player that drove to the hoop. They couldn’t do that if we had Covington, and I hope that any PF we add will be enough of a threat that the big slow centers like Gobert, Embiid, Jokic .. and especially guys like Gasol, Steven Adams, Kevin Love etc, will be neutralized when they face our front court.

I don't think it's fair to lump Gordon in with Gibson and say a team like Utah would defend him the same way. Gordon would drive and slash by him all game long.

The point is that Utah would keep Rudy Gobert underneath the basket vs either player. He’s not “going by” him - Utah wants him under the basket, altering the shots of either player, and as secondary defense vs KAT if he beats his man too.


Well, is it really a problem? KAT and Gordon both can slash, drive and dribble relatively good for C/PF. Both are quick and mobile enough to create enough mismatches, switch, even run PnR. I wonder what can harm our defense more: a non athletic PF who cant finish at rim but can shoot 3s, or mobile athletic PF who can finish at rim, but is a bad shooter? First is Juancho, second is Gordon. Both are elite role players. In my opinion if we can resign Juancho and get Gordon we can have the best of two worlds. Elite marksman and elite dunker.



It is more management problem. If Juancho accepts Layman type of deal 12mil/3yrs, it will be a steal. If I watch Juancho playing next to KAT/Reid, he gets many opportunities to score slashing at rim, quick postups. And he gets exposed when he defends athletic wings.





These are opportunities for Gordon. Just like JJ does it for us. Playing five out scheme is not only about shooting 3s. It is about our ability to make our offense hard to defend by appllying pressure either by scoring efficiently from 3pt line or at rim.



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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#64 » by shrink » Thu May 14, 2020 2:23 pm

minimus wrote:
shrink wrote:
Klomp wrote:I don't think it's fair to lump Gordon in with Gibson and say a team like Utah would defend him the same way. Gordon would drive and slash by him all game long.

The point is that Utah would keep Rudy Gobert underneath the basket vs either player. He’s not “going by” him - Utah wants him under the basket, altering the shots of either player, and as secondary defense vs KAT if he beats his man too.


Well, is it really a problem? KAT and Gordon both can slash, drive and dribble relatively good for C/PF. Both are quick and mobile enough to create enough mismatches, switch, even run PnR.

I think it’s a major problem, since Gobert is one of the best in NBA history of altering shots under the rim, whether that’s Gordon or KAT.

Imagine. Towns is so good outside that he forced Utah to move one of the best defensive erasers ever out from under the rim. That makes life easier not just for Towns, but for every player on the Wolves that attacks the rim. That ONLY happens because MIN’s PF .. Covington .. is too good from the three point line. With TWO bigs that are huge threats to hit open three’s, it forced a mismatch where Gobert had to guard one of them, out on the perimeter.

On top of this, Gordon’s ability to slash is not as big a deal if Gobert can wait for him under the basket, because Rudy doesn’t have to respect AG’s three point shot. Covington’s three-point shooting was far more important than slashing, and as Rosas puts it, forcing opponents to adjust to us. A PF who isn’t a three point threat diminishes our best weapon - the mismatch Towns creates offensively.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#65 » by shrink » Thu May 14, 2020 2:40 pm

Would you offer #16 and Okogie to move up to #6-8, for Okoro or Vassell, or some other prospect?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#66 » by minimus » Thu May 14, 2020 3:16 pm

shrink wrote:
minimus wrote:
shrink wrote:The point is that Utah would keep Rudy Gobert underneath the basket vs either player. He’s not “going by” him - Utah wants him under the basket, altering the shots of either player, and as secondary defense vs KAT if he beats his man too.


Well, is it really a problem? KAT and Gordon both can slash, drive and dribble relatively good for C/PF. Both are quick and mobile enough to create enough mismatches, switch, even run PnR.

I think it’s a major problem, since Gobert is one of the best in NBA history of altering shots under the rim, whether that’s Gordon or KAT.

Imagine. Towns is so good outside that he forced Utah to move one of the best defensive erasers ever out from under the rim. That makes life easier not just for Towns, but for every player on the Wolves that attacks the rim. That ONLY happens because MIN’s PF .. Covington .. is too good from the three point line. With TWO bigs that are huge threats to hit open three’s, it forced a mismatch where Gobert had to guard one of them, out on the perimeter.

On top of this, Gordon’s ability to slash is not as big a deal if Gobert can wait for him under the basket, because Rudy doesn’t have to respect AG’s three point shot. Covington’s three-point shooting was far more important than slashing, and as Rosas puts it, forcing opponents to adjust to us. A PF who isn’t a three point threat diminishes our best weapon - the mismatch Towns creates offensively.


Well... There is a difference between non shooter and bad shooter. Gordon is a bad shooter. But he is not Rubio, MKG or Ben Simmons. You described situation with non shooter and Gobert. And how quickly we forget how bad RoCo is as slasher, he has no dribbling, cannot post up anyone. How bad is RoCo is as passer. There were enough games in MIN to understand that he is a streaky shooter. Often when his 3pt shot was not falling he made little impact in offense.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#67 » by shrink » Thu May 14, 2020 8:38 pm

minimus wrote:
shrink wrote:
minimus wrote:
Well, is it really a problem? KAT and Gordon both can slash, drive and dribble relatively good for C/PF. Both are quick and mobile enough to create enough mismatches, switch, even run PnR.

I think it’s a major problem, since Gobert is one of the best in NBA history of altering shots under the rim, whether that’s Gordon or KAT.

Imagine. Towns is so good outside that he forced Utah to move one of the best defensive erasers ever out from under the rim. That makes life easier not just for Towns, but for every player on the Wolves that attacks the rim. That ONLY happens because MIN’s PF .. Covington .. is too good from the three point line. With TWO bigs that are huge threats to hit open three’s, it forced a mismatch where Gobert had to guard one of them, out on the perimeter.

On top of this, Gordon’s ability to slash is not as big a deal if Gobert can wait for him under the basket, because Rudy doesn’t have to respect AG’s three point shot. Covington’s three-point shooting was far more important than slashing, and as Rosas puts it, forcing opponents to adjust to us. A PF who isn’t a three point threat diminishes our best weapon - the mismatch Towns creates offensively.


Well... There is a difference between non shooter and bad shooter. Gordon is a bad shooter. But he is not Rubio, MKG or Ben Simmons. You described situation with non shooter and Gobert. And how quickly we forget how bad RoCo is as slasher, he has no dribbling, cannot post up anyone. How bad is RoCo is as passer. There were enough games in MIN to understand that he is a streaky shooter. Often when his 3pt shot was not falling he made little impact in offense.

You are making my point for me,

Yes, Covington was a bad slasher and a bad passer. And despite that, his ability to shoot the three as a big is what forced Gobert to not stay under the basket.

So when you say, “but look what a good slasher Aaron Gordon is!” that skill will not move Gobert from under the basket, and moreover, he will be under the basket waiting for Gordon when he gets there.

Finally, you don’t want to bring up bad days for Covington, when championing Aaron Gordon, who has bad months. I would even point out that on a day when Covington’s three point shot isn’t falling - nobody stops defending him at the three point line. Even on a bad day, a credible three point threat that moves Gobert helps the rest of the team score at the rim. I don’t know why you are making a difference between bad shooters and non-shooters, because if Gordon shoots 30% from 3P again, he isn’t going to draw a big defender, whether he shoots the ball or not.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#68 » by Neeva » Thu May 14, 2020 9:11 pm

shrink wrote:Would you offer #16 and Okogie to move up to #6-8, for Okoro or Vassell, or some other prospect?


I would but not sure Okogie is enough to move up that much also if it looks like the player the wolves want will fall to 22, trade down? For Philly’s picks 22,34 and 36 ? I know we have too many players as is but more chances to get lucky and get a future star in this draft that is a crapshoot , the better.
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Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#69 » by minimus » Thu May 14, 2020 10:23 pm

shrink wrote:
minimus wrote:
shrink wrote:I think it’s a major problem, since Gobert is one of the best in NBA history of altering shots under the rim, whether that’s Gordon or KAT.

Imagine. Towns is so good outside that he forced Utah to move one of the best defensive erasers ever out from under the rim. That makes life easier not just for Towns, but for every player on the Wolves that attacks the rim. That ONLY happens because MIN’s PF .. Covington .. is too good from the three point line. With TWO bigs that are huge threats to hit open three’s, it forced a mismatch where Gobert had to guard one of them, out on the perimeter.

On top of this, Gordon’s ability to slash is not as big a deal if Gobert can wait for him under the basket, because Rudy doesn’t have to respect AG’s three point shot. Covington’s three-point shooting was far more important than slashing, and as Rosas puts it, forcing opponents to adjust to us. A PF who isn’t a three point threat diminishes our best weapon - the mismatch Towns creates offensively.


Well... There is a difference between non shooter and bad shooter. Gordon is a bad shooter. But he is not Rubio, MKG or Ben Simmons. You described situation with non shooter and Gobert. And how quickly we forget how bad RoCo is as slasher, he has no dribbling, cannot post up anyone. How bad is RoCo is as passer. There were enough games in MIN to understand that he is a streaky shooter. Often when his 3pt shot was not falling he made little impact in offense.

You are making my point for me,

Yes, Covington was a bad slasher and a bad passer. And despite that, his ability to shoot the three as a big is what forced Gobert to not stay under the basket.

So when you say, “but look what a good slasher Aaron Gordon is!” that skill will not move Gobert from under the basket, and moreover, he will be under the basket waiting for Gordon when he gets there.

Finally, you don’t want to bring up bad days for Covington, when championing Aaron Gordon, who has bad months. I would even point out that on a day when Covington’s three point shot isn’t falling - nobody stops defending him at the three point line. Even on a bad day, a credible three point threat that moves Gobert helps the rest of the team score at the rim. I don’t know why you are making a difference between bad shooters and non-shooters, because if Gordon shoots 30% from 3P again, he isn’t going to draw a big defender, whether he shoots the ball or not.


Three years ago: Gobert was not defending Gordon:


Nowadays, this season: Gobert is still not defending Gordon.



Embiid is not waiting Gordon under rim. Instead Embiid asked for switch but Harris was late and it was an easy dunk by Gordon.


I see your concern but it has nothing to do with reality. Instead you can see many positive thing that Gordon can bring here.

First, every time he got the ball down low, deep enough, he tried to post up smaller UTA players. Even guys like Tobias Harris, Ben Simmons. He plays С role in offense. He stretches floor towards the rim.
Second, every time Gordon got rebound and initiateв a fastbreak, Gobert was last to get back in defense. Gordon is walking/running mismatch for every team in transition. Imagine him paired with KAT/Beasley in fastbreak.
Third, note how quickly Gordon pass the ball out of the post when he is double teamed.

UTA intentionally went small at PF, because they could not handle HOU in playoffs. Their problem is that Bogdanovic/Ingles/Mitchell are not the most versatile defensive trios. Gobert cannot do it all. In real world you have to choose. They preferred Conley over Rubio, they are not as strong in defense, and they don't involve Gobert in offense enough, they lost that easy points off Rubio passes. But again In real world you have to choose.

This is how Gordon played against another very spefici defense:


You can see how he defended in space, rebounded.

The biggest problem with Gordon is not shooting. It is shot selection and decision making. In ORL he plays with guys like Fultz, MCW, Iwundu, Birch, Vuc, Bamba, Fournier. No elite shooters, no elite passers. No spacing. He forces a lot of shots from mid range, 3pt shot of the dribble. What happen if we plug him here next to three elite shooter? If he accepts this role of facilitator, sky is the limit.

According to bbref, league average % at rim is 67%. MIN is bottom5 in this category. At the same time we are #1 in layup attempts. It is the same situation with 3pt shooting before and after trade deadline. We started this season being one of the worst team in terms of 3pt shooting accuracy, being one of the league leaders in generated and attempted shots. After trade deadline we were leaders in generated AND made 3pt shots. So now we generate enough layups/dunks opportunities. system works. We just dont have personnel to convert them consistently well.

Aaron Gordon is finishing at rim with 70% os his shots/dunks. Stretching towards the rim concept is equally important for our offense. Yet, fans tend to underrate such players.

Also we are dead last in corner 3pt accuracy. Corner 3s are bread and butter for wings, so these % are not surprising, Layman missed a lot of games and we mostly played Okogie/Culver there.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020.html#team_shooting::none
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#70 » by minimus » Sat May 16, 2020 9:36 pm

Jonathan Isaac is an excellent fit here. However an ideal fit here is not Isaac, it is OG Anunoby.

OG Anunoby. 10.8ppg, 5.4rpg, 1.6apg, 1.4spg. Shooting 50% FG from the field, 38% from 3pt line.

I honestly believe that we will be hunting more guys like Malik Beasley. players who haven't had enough chances to showcase themselves in other teams or their teams dont have enough resources to keep them long term or players who are not satisfied with their current role.

I can think about following players:

De'Anthony Melton
Mikal Bridges
John Collins
Richaun Holmes
Joe Harris
Derrick Jones Jr.
Glenn Robinson III
Marquese Chriss
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#71 » by jayu70 » Sun May 17, 2020 1:16 pm

minimus wrote:JJ for John Collins in S&T (64ml/4yrs)
In separate trade: Culver, Evans, Spellman, MIN FRP for De'Andre Hunter

Draft microwave scorer such as Maxey, Kira Lewis Jr. Draft Paul Reed in the second round.

KAT/Reid/Collins
Collins/Reed/Vanderbilt
Hunter/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/Maxey/JMac

That'll be a quick no from the Hawks.
If all it takes to resign John Collins is a 4yr/64mil, that deal would be signed tomorrow if it could be. Hawks aren't trading their 22 year old PF putting up 20/10 on great efficiency for a 33 year old expiring JJ.
On the second trade, Just rather keep Hunter, he fits that ideal 3nD SF with great size.
Hawks also aren't interested in running it back with more rookies to develop next season.
They are focusing on transitioning out of the rebuild and aiming for the playoffs by adding to the core of Young, Huerter, Reddish, Hunter, Collins and Capela. They'll draft BPA with their 2020 1st, and use their $49 mil in capspace to fill in the rest of their roster - I actually hope they go after Beasly in RFAcy, he's a Georgia kid.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#72 » by minimus » Sun May 17, 2020 2:22 pm

jayu70 wrote:
minimus wrote:JJ for John Collins in S&T (64ml/4yrs)
In separate trade: Culver, Evans, Spellman, MIN FRP for De'Andre Hunter

Draft microwave scorer such as Maxey, Kira Lewis Jr. Draft Paul Reed in the second round.

KAT/Reid/Collins
Collins/Reed/Vanderbilt
Hunter/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/Maxey/JMac

That'll be a quick no from the Hawks.
If all it takes to resign John Collins is a 4yr/64mil, that deal would be signed tomorrow if it could be. Hawks aren't trading their 22 year old PF putting up 20/10 on great efficiency for a 33 year old expiring JJ.
On the second trade, Just rather keep Hunter, he fits that ideal 3nD SF with great size.
Hawks also aren't interested in running it back with more rookies to develop next season.
They are focusing on transitioning out of the rebuild and aiming for the playoffs by adding to the core of Young, Huerter, Reddish, Hunter, Collins and Capela. They'll draft BPA with their 2020 1st, and use their $49 mil in capspace to fill in the rest of their roster - I actually hope they go after Beasly in RFAcy, he's a Georgia kid.


That's fair argument. I thought that ATL might aim Edwards as their future SG, but you know better. I don't know much about Georgia as FA destination. So I might be mistaken but ATL don't have much choice but simply overpay Beasley by big margin.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#73 » by jayu70 » Sun May 17, 2020 2:51 pm

minimus wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
minimus wrote:JJ for John Collins in S&T (64ml/4yrs)
In separate trade: Culver, Evans, Spellman, MIN FRP for De'Andre Hunter

Draft microwave scorer such as Maxey, Kira Lewis Jr. Draft Paul Reed in the second round.

KAT/Reid/Collins
Collins/Reed/Vanderbilt
Hunter/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/Maxey/JMac

That'll be a quick no from the Hawks.
If all it takes to resign John Collins is a 4yr/64mil, that deal would be signed tomorrow if it could be. Hawks aren't trading their 22 year old PF putting up 20/10 on great efficiency for a 33 year old expiring JJ.
On the second trade, Just rather keep Hunter, he fits that ideal 3nD SF with great size.
Hawks also aren't interested in running it back with more rookies to develop next season.
They are focusing on transitioning out of the rebuild and aiming for the playoffs by adding to the core of Young, Huerter, Reddish, Hunter, Collins and Capela. They'll draft BPA with their 2020 1st, and use their $49 mil in capspace to fill in the rest of their roster - I actually hope they go after Beasly in RFAcy, he's a Georgia kid.


That's fair argument. I thought that ATL might aim Edwards as their future SG, but you know better. I don't know much about Georgia as FA destination. So I might be mistaken but ATL don't have much choice but simply overpay Beasley by big margin.

There's no guarantee the Hawks get Edwards, if they do it changes the need for going after Beasley.
How much is Minny willing to pay Beasley?
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#74 » by minimus » Sun May 17, 2020 3:34 pm

jayu70 wrote:
minimus wrote:
jayu70 wrote:That'll be a quick no from the Hawks.
If all it takes to resign John Collins is a 4yr/64mil, that deal would be signed tomorrow if it could be. Hawks aren't trading their 22 year old PF putting up 20/10 on great efficiency for a 33 year old expiring JJ.
On the second trade, Just rather keep Hunter, he fits that ideal 3nD SF with great size.
Hawks also aren't interested in running it back with more rookies to develop next season.
They are focusing on transitioning out of the rebuild and aiming for the playoffs by adding to the core of Young, Huerter, Reddish, Hunter, Collins and Capela. They'll draft BPA with their 2020 1st, and use their $49 mil in capspace to fill in the rest of their roster - I actually hope they go after Beasly in RFAcy, he's a Georgia kid.


That's fair argument. I thought that ATL might aim Edwards as their future SG, but you know better. I don't know much about Georgia as FA destination. So I might be mistaken but ATL don't have much choice but simply overpay Beasley by big margin.

There's no guarantee the Hawks get Edwards, if they do it changes the need for going after Beasley.
How much is Minny willing to pay Beasley?


It supposed to be "fair" offer. It looks like Beasley want to be here and our office and fanbase like him.

So we are going to match any reasonable offer. If ATL wanted to get Beasley, they could get him this deadline in the same four team trade. I also believe that both GM have shown good working communication, so they can manage such situations.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#75 » by jayu70 » Sun May 17, 2020 5:40 pm

minimus wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
minimus wrote:
That's fair argument. I thought that ATL might aim Edwards as their future SG, but you know better. I don't know much about Georgia as FA destination. So I might be mistaken but ATL don't have much choice but simply overpay Beasley by big margin.

There's no guarantee the Hawks get Edwards, if they do it changes the need for going after Beasley.
How much is Minny willing to pay Beasley?


It supposed to be "fair" offer. It looks like Beasley want to be here and our office and fanbase like him.

So we are going to match any reasonable offer. If ATL wanted to get Beasley, they could get him this deadline in the same four team trade. I also believe that both GM have shown good working communication, so they can manage such situations.

What do you consider 'fair'? He turned down 3yr/$30 mil from Denver in the offseason.
I actually wanted the Hawks to trade for both him and Hernangomez at the deadline using the #16 pick before the Capela deal materialized.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#76 » by minimus » Sun May 17, 2020 5:59 pm

jayu70 wrote:
minimus wrote:
jayu70 wrote:There's no guarantee the Hawks get Edwards, if they do it changes the need for going after Beasley.
How much is Minny willing to pay Beasley?


It supposed to be "fair" offer. It looks like Beasley want to be here and our office and fanbase like him.

So we are going to match any reasonable offer. If ATL wanted to get Beasley, they could get him this deadline in the same four team trade. I also believe that both GM have shown good working communication, so they can manage such situations.

What do you consider 'fair'? He turned down 3yr/$30 mil from Denver in the offseason.
I actually wanted the Hawks to trade for both him and Hernangomez at the deadline using the #16 pick before the Capela deal materialized.


I think the FA market will tell what is 'fair' price for him. Beasley is an excellent fit here, but he is far from perfect SG. He has no advanced dribble, he is not the most creative finisher at rim, he is only average defender and passer at best.

As for ATL you said that 15 mil per year is "bargain" price for Collins. Does it mean ATL will offer him 20+ per year deal? Juancho might be a good fit in ATL next to Capella.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#77 » by Killboard » Mon May 18, 2020 5:40 am

minimus wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
minimus wrote:
It supposed to be "fair" offer. It looks like Beasley want to be here and our office and fanbase like him.

So we are going to match any reasonable offer. If ATL wanted to get Beasley, they could get him this deadline in the same four team trade. I also believe that both GM have shown good working communication, so they can manage such situations.

What do you consider 'fair'? He turned down 3yr/$30 mil from Denver in the offseason.
I actually wanted the Hawks to trade for both him and Hernangomez at the deadline using the #16 pick before the Capela deal materialized.


I think the FA market will tell what is 'fair' price for him. Beasley is an excellent fit here, but he is far from perfect SG. He has no advanced dribble, he is not the most creative finisher at rim, he is only average defender and passer at best.

As for ATL you said that 15 mil per year is "bargain" price for Collins. Does it mean ATL will offer him 20+ per year deal? Juancho might be a good fit in ATL next to Capella.


I find interesting that S&T has been more usual as a late with RFA's. Not only the teams that weren't going to match (like the Nest with Dlo) but like when Delon Wright went to Dallas. Memphis recieved 2 2nd rounders to not match. It gives the team signing the offer sheet more certain and not have the cap in the air while other free agents sign elsewhere. You just have to find the right partner and the player actually wanting to go sign there.
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#78 » by minimus » Mon May 18, 2020 1:44 pm

minimus wrote:Jonathan Isaac is an excellent fit here. However an ideal fit here is not Isaac, it is OG Anunoby.

OG Anunoby. 10.8ppg, 5.4rpg, 1.6apg, 1.4spg. Shooting 50% FG from the field, 38% from 3pt line.

I honestly believe that we will be hunting more guys like Malik Beasley. players who haven't had enough chances to showcase themselves in other teams or their teams dont have enough resources to keep them long term or players who are not satisfied with their current role.

I can think about following players:

De'Anthony Melton
Mikal Bridges
John Collins
Richaun Holmes
Joe Harris
Derrick Jones Jr.
Glenn Robinson III
Marquese Chriss


+ Justin Holiday
+ Jae Crowder
+ Moe Harkless
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#79 » by minimus » Mon May 18, 2020 2:20 pm

Win-now trade:

JJ, Culver, Evans, MIN FRP, MIN SRP for Malcolm Brogdon

Resign Martin, JMac, Beasley, Juancho. Draft defensive minded PFs Patrick Williams, Tyler Bey or Paul Reed.

KAT/Reid/Spellman
Williams/Juancho/Vanderblit
Brogdon/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/Brogdon/JMac
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Re: Trade Talk (Part Four) 

Post#80 » by minimus » Mon May 18, 2020 2:28 pm

If we cant re-sign Juancho.

Culver, #16, Spellman for Bjelica #12.
JJ, Evans, MIN FRP for Caris LeVert

Resign Martin, JMac, Beasley. Draft Maxey, Paul Reed.

KAT/Reid/Reed
Bjelica/Vanderblit/Reed
LeVert/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Nowell
DLo/Maxey/JMac

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