OT- The Last Dance documentary

[The Evidence]

I'm not sure why you think these things seem like the same thing.

They are the same thing:

Our collective "feel good" was robbed after both retirements.

Yet the fuss to this day is only about 99.

"KRAUSE BROKE IT UP, OMG."

I thought he's a maniac thats crazy about winning and competing? (when its only on his terms?)

Its contradictory to say he didnt get the chance to defend his title, when nobody literally stopped him.

He could have easily played for a different coach.

Lebron wins rings with guys like Spolestra and Tyronne Lue lol.

You're obviously entitled to you're opinion, but I find this to be such a weird takeaway. First of all when you say Jordan quit in 95, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Do you mean he quit in 93, or are you talking about him quitting in 99?

Regardless, in one example you have a guy who is retiring either from pure burn-out or quitting because he feels like he's been forced out. Krause is getting "fuss" because he did everything in power short of firing arguably the best coach in the history of the game to chase him off the team.

Typo on the first retirement, yes 1993...

Why is the first retirement an automatic pass though? We missed out on 2 actual rings!

Oh.... because he was "tired". He gets a pass. Nevermind.

But why the overreaction to him wanting to go for it at the end of his career, and we might have lost out on 1 ring?

My point is that the overreaction to possibly losing out on 1 ring versus the under-reaction to ACTUALLY losing out on 2 rings is incongruent.

This narrative based analysis is simply an abstraction and not weighing the actual losses correctly.

[HomoSapien]

They are the same thing:

Our collective "feel good" was robbed after both retirements.

Yet the fuss to this day is only about 99.

"KRAUSE BROKE IT UP, OMG."

I thought he's a maniac thats crazy about winning and competing? (when its only on his terms?)

Its contradictory to say he didnt get the chance to defend his title, when nobody literally stopped him.

He could have easily played for a different coach.

Lebron wins rings with guys like Spolestra and Tyronne Lue lol.

You're obviously entitled to you're opinion, but I find this to be such a weird takeaway. First of all when you say Jordan quit in 95, I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Do you mean he quit in 93, or are you talking about him quitting in 99?

Regardless, in one example you have a guy who is retiring either from pure burn-out or quitting because he feels like he's been forced out. Krause is getting "fuss" because he did everything in power short of firing arguably the best coach in the history of the game to chase him off the team.

Typo on the first retirement, yes 1993...

Why is the first retirement an automatic pass though? We missed out on 2 actual rings!

Oh.... because he was "tired". He gets a pass. Nevermind.

But why the overreaction to him wanting to go for it at the end of his career, and we might have lost out on 1 ring?

My point is that the overreaction to possibly losing out on 1 ring versus the under-reaction to ACTUALLY losing out on 2 rings is incongruent.

This narrative based analysis is simply an abstraction and not weighing the actual losses correctly.

It's pretty simple. We love MJ. We don't love Krause. MJ poured his soul out on the court for us. Krause throughout the years let his ego get in the way because he wanted more credit. Jordan's retirement, for him, was a necessity. Krause trying to push Jackson out wasn't a necessity.

[firstDance]

Phil didn't start dating Jeanie Buss til 1999 but I wonder if he already had his eye on the Lakers job

Jordan probably should have given up his "only play for Phil" demand and instead worked with Krause to bring someone in other than Tim Floyd.

The players still wanted to dance but management and coaches seemed to all want to move on to the next challenge. Unlike players and their short window of opportunity, management/coaches has a more big picture and long term viewpoint.

[HomoSapien]

“He did play me 1-on-1 one time,” Kidd-Gilchrist said, via Dave Zangaro of CSN Houston. “And it was hard for me. I lost. I lost to a 50-year-old guy. That’s my boss, though. He’s the best player to play the game.”

https://sports.yahoo.com/hornets-miles-bridges-challenges-team-owner-michael-jordan-to-1-on-1-235045172.html

[TheGOATRises007]

Just finished episode 9 and 10.

I don't know how Jerry Reinsdorf can recover from this.

He comes out the biggest loser by far. What an absolute coward of a owner. Didn't even want to try for a 7th title.

[logical_art]

Just finished episode 9 and 10.

I don't know how JR Reinsdorf can recover from this.

He comes out the biggest loser by far. What an absolute coward of a owner. Didn't even want to try for a 7th title.

Bulls fans need to finally punish him the only way he cares about - his bottom line.

Boycott the team till Jerry sells.

[Dan Z]

I don't know if this was posted already, but here you go:

Jerry Reinsdorf on why Bulls’ dynasty ended and Michael Jordan’s greatness

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/jerry-reinsdorf-why-bulls-dynasty-ended-and-michael-jordans-greatness

[dice]

Then you definitely don't know about a bunch of ASU fans chanting "P.L.O." at one of Kerr's games in order to rattle him.

Un-fricking-believable.

Still remains one of the most disgusting things I have ever come across. Just horrid. Kerr has the heart of a lion.

It was disgusting. I was a student at ASU at the time and was horrified. I was happy to see Kerr knock down like six 3 pointers in the 1st half of that game. U of A was a premier basketball program and ASU was garbage. Wildcat fans would yell Steeeeeeve Kerrrrrrrr every time he hit a 3. That team with Kerr, Sean Elliot and Kenny Lofton (who would go on to play MLB), was amazing. They made the Final Four in 1988.

pretty weird that kerr got a scholarship from a top program but nowhere else

[jc23]

Has anyone ever asked Scottie how his back was two nights later? im curious if he could have played in a game 7.

[HomoSapien]

ESPN will air Game 6: The Movie, which will show Game 6 of the 1998 NBA Finals in a cinematic way on Wednesday, May 20th.

The telecast will feature exclusive, never-before-seen game footage captured by five different NBA Entertainment cameras.

It will also be the first time the game between the Chicago Bulls and Utah Jazz will be available in high-definition.

“Rarely, if ever, do you have the opportunity to showcase one of the most storied games in NBA history in an innovative, new presentation that includes never-before-seen material that takes fans further inside the action," said Connor Schell of ESPN. "Game 6: The Movie is an exciting, creative way to deliver even more enjoyment to basketball fans after reliving the journey of the 1997-98 Chicago Bulls in The Last Dance. This material, which was captured on film, has existed in the NBA archives for 22 years and we are very grateful to our colleagues at NBA Entertainment and Winik Media for this incredible opportunity.”

I think we need to dust off the old game threads for this.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/258189/ESPN-To-Air-Cinematic-Version-Of-Game-6-Of-1998-NBA-Finals-On-Wednesday

[jc23]

Watch on YouTube

I enjoyed Gary's story, especially the last part lol.

[dice]

Has anyone ever asked Scottie how his back was two nights later? im curious if he could have played in a game 7.

i'm not sure that how scottie's back felt following his exploits in the two days following winning a championship would have been an accurate representation of how it would have felt after two days preparing for a game 7

he sure didn't load manage the following year in houston: played all 50 games and averaged 40 minutes

[dice]

Just finished episode 9 and 10.

I don't know how JR Reinsdorf can recover from this.

He comes out the biggest loser by far. What an absolute coward of a owner. Didn't even want to try for a 7th title.

Bulls fans need to finally punish him the only way he cares about - his bottom line.

Boycott the team till Jerry sells.

once again, he is not the sole owner. in any business conglomerate, the bottom line is the bottom line. JR being out of the picture would change absolutely nothing. to get the ownership mentality you're looking for, the entire team would have to be sold to an individual who treats the team as his play thing. and the number of people rich enough to afford to do that given the explosion in team valuations is dwindling

[logical_art]

Just finished episode 9 and 10.

I don't know how JR Reinsdorf can recover from this.

He comes out the biggest loser by far. What an absolute coward of a owner. Didn't even want to try for a 7th title.

Bulls fans need to finally punish him the only way he cares about - his bottom line.

Boycott the team till Jerry sells.

once again, he is not the sole owner. in any business conglomerate, the bottom line is the bottom line. JR being out of the picture would change absolutely nothing. to get the ownership mentality you're looking for, the entire team would have to be sold to an individual who treats the team as his play thing. and the number of people rich enough to afford to do that given the explosion in team valuations is dwindling

He's the majority shareholder. Replacing him with someone who is more of a sports fan and less of a penny pincher would have to move the needle in the right direction. Who knows but maybe the other shareholders are huge sports fans and would love to go all in but keep getting voted down by Jerry?

[dice]

Bulls fans need to finally punish him the only way he cares about - his bottom line.

Boycott the team till Jerry sells.

once again, he is not the sole owner. in any business conglomerate, the bottom line is the bottom line. JR being out of the picture would change absolutely nothing. to get the ownership mentality you're looking for, the entire team would have to be sold to an individual who treats the team as his play thing. and the number of people rich enough to afford to do that given the explosion in team valuations is dwindling

He's the majority shareholder. Replacing him with someone who is more of a sports fan and less of a penny pincher would have to move the needle in the right direction. Who knows but maybe the other shareholders are huge sports fans and would love to go all in but keep getting voted down by Jerry?

he owns an estimated 40% of the bulls and 19% of the sox:

https://www.forbes.com/profile/jerry-reinsdorf/#2a22f2666d28

for the record, over the past 20+ years the sox have had an average team payroll. in a non-salary cap sport. ranking anywhere from 4th highest to 2nd lowest and everywhere in-between. is that low for the south side (red headed stepchild) team in a major city? maybe a little

[Shill]

In some ways I'm glad it ended the way it did. In the mind of everyone, Jordan went out on top. I don't think the Bulls would have won another title if they came back. They would have been in the running, but I don't think they would have done it.

Hard to say.

The Knicks and Spurs weren't exactly terrifying teams in '98-99.

With an off-season to recharge and maybe a roster tweak, I wouldn't have beat against them.

[kyrv]

The sixth title season WAS the one more year.

Should be required reading:

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/jerry-krause-explains-why-bulls-dynasty-unraveled-his-words

I've posted here many times on how the Bulls were running on the fumes for the 6th title, and more than one participant used that exact phrasing.

And Scottie waited for YEARS to get his chance to get paid - he was going to take a one year deal? Come on MJ. You know that wasn't going to happen. MJ, who ya crappin'?

Scottie, Rodman, and Longley were not nearly as good after the 6th title. MJ sliced his hand open. That team wasn't sniffing a title.

The optics I agree were not good, and the Bulls didn't seem to care about the PR aspect, but there are no bad guys imo.

Great documentary, great time. Love MJ and Scottie.

[kyrv]

Bulls fans need to finally punish him the only way he cares about - his bottom line.

Boycott the team till Jerry sells.

once again, he is not the sole owner. in any business conglomerate, the bottom line is the bottom line. JR being out of the picture would change absolutely nothing. to get the ownership mentality you're looking for, the entire team would have to be sold to an individual who treats the team as his play thing. and the number of people rich enough to afford to do that given the explosion in team valuations is dwindling

He's the majority shareholder. Replacing him with someone who is more of a sports fan and less of a penny pincher would have to move the needle in the right direction. Who knows but maybe the other shareholders are huge sports fans and would love to go all in but keep getting voted down by Jerry?

Who knows, maybe the other shareholders are huge fans of money and would love to get even more.

[firstDance]

In some ways I'm glad it ended the way it did. In the mind of everyone, Jordan went out on top. I don't think the Bulls would have won another title if they came back. They would have been in the running, but I don't think they would have done it.

Hard to say.

The Knicks and Spurs weren't exactly terrifying teams in '98-99.

With an off-season to recharge and maybe a roster tweak, I wouldn't have beat against them.

Strike shortened season
#8 seed made run to the Finals

Tends to fuel belief an aging team with injuries could have pulled it off

Spurs vs Bulls would be immense strength vs weakness matchup. Classic series but I like our chances finding some bodies to bang down low with Robinson/Duncan than the Spurs ability to find someone to guard Jordan. Sean Elliot, Mario Ellie and Avery Johnson were all out of the league within 2 years. Also Kerr is not on the Spurs bench.

2000? Yah we would be toast.

[logical_art]

once again, he is not the sole owner. in any business conglomerate, the bottom line is the bottom line. JR being out of the picture would change absolutely nothing. to get the ownership mentality you're looking for, the entire team would have to be sold to an individual who treats the team as his play thing. and the number of people rich enough to afford to do that given the explosion in team valuations is dwindling

He's the majority shareholder. Replacing him with someone who is more of a sports fan and less of a penny pincher would have to move the needle in the right direction. Who knows but maybe the other shareholders are huge sports fans and would love to go all in but keep getting voted down by Jerry?

Who knows, maybe the other shareholders are huge fans of money and would love to get even more.

Somebody knows but not us.