Would you rather make to the finals every year and win 50% or half the time and win 100%

[GhosDini]

This is a veiled Lebron vs Jordan Finals thread.

Lebron's problem is some of his were unavoidable, you have to apply context.

I'd actually say 4 of LBJ's 6 finals losses you could swap in MJ and he is taking the same L. 2015 would be like taking Pippen and Grant out and expecting MJ to win against a 100% healthy Finals opponent. 2007 would be like MJ in his 3rd or 4th year and expecting him to beat a HOF stacked squad of veterans.

And all of the Durant Warriors losses would be L's for anybody in history taking his place on those Cavs teams, those squads were all time stacked due to a cap anomaly that will never be repeated.

Now what you would not have seen - to be fair, and this is why you can give MJ a clear nod over Lebron in terms of Finals performance - is MJ would never have gone down like LBJ did in 2011, and I also don't see him getting rolled in 2014 like the Heat did - Lebron didn't play bad in that series but Jordan wasn't getting spanked like that, can't see it happening.

The Durant Warriors nearly lost to the Harden Rockets. Im pretty sure they can be beat.

[GhosDini]

Has anyone pointed out that Lebron has not made it to the finals 100% of the time and did not win 50% of his finals appearences? Lebron fans are in here acting like hes 9-8 in the finals lmao. No guys...he's 3-6. Thats not better than 6-0.

The type of player TS is talking about is Magic Johnson. He made the finals 75% of the time snd won the title over 50% of the time. That amounts to 12 yrs, 9 finals, 5 titles and a finals record of 5-4. Guess what? Id still take 6-0.

[bamheat]

Win every time = flawless, clutch, winner, greatness.

Going to the finals but only winning Half means:
1. Your playing in a weak conference.
2. You have a good/great team but are considered a choker.
3. Have to live with what ifs for the rest of your days.

How can you be flawless and clutch if you lose before making it to the finals.


Makes no sense

[mixerball]

i would rather hone my skills turning myself into ultimate winner in the process so when i reach the promiseland i stay there.

meaning, when you figure it out there is no one stoping you after.

[mixerball]

Win every time = flawless, clutch, winner, greatness.

Going to the finals but only winning Half means:
1. Your playing in a weak conference.
2. You have a good/great team but are considered a choker.
3. Have to live with what ifs for the rest of your days.

How can you be flawless and clutch if you lose before making it to the finals.


Makes no sense

you make no sense.

[nfmos]

If the question is would i rather win 5/10 or 5/5, then yes, I would probably want 10 finals appearances over not.

But if you ask me if i would rather be 4/10 or 5/5, or say 3/9 or 6/6, then i pick the one with most titles ever single time.

And since this is really about MJ and Lebrons finals records, I think the thing to remember is just because Lebron made more finals doesnt mean he has a better playoff record than MJ, it just means he was in a weaker conference.

Jordan won 119 playoff games and lost 60 for a Playoff Win % of 66.48%.

LeBron so far has won 154 games and lost 79, for a total Playoff Win % of 66.09%.

Jordan actually won a slightly higher percentage even with less finals appearances, and that includes the fact that many of MJ's first round series were best of 5 where he could have padded his win % more if he was allowed more games against weaker teams.

To me, Lebron was basically 3-6 against Western teams in the playoffs. How many finals would he have even made if he was in the West or even if there were combined conference seeding in the playoffs? At the end of the day, conference championships are solely dependent on the strength of the conferences or the brackets. The NBA championship is not, because its the last one left standing at the end of a tournament. 6 times MJ was the best player of the winner of the whole tournament. Lebron did that 3 times. Thats what really matters to me.

[GhosDini]

After each of their 7th seasons Lebron and Jordan actually did go to the finals 100% of the time. Jordan won 100% of the time and Lebron won...37% of the time.

[DavidSterned]

I would rather be LeBron James, that way I'm a better player and also a good person.

You know he's cheating on you, right Savannah?

[Poohdini1]

So would you rather have more titles or less titles?

I'll take more titles

[Ben-N1ce]

So this is the Joe Montana Brady argument except Brady also has two more SB wins.. Not three fewer. I wonder if Jim Kelly rather be 0-4 than win one SB. Makes you think..

[JonFromVA]

If you know you'll get another shot, losing in the finals is fine.

But finals losses without a redemption title later are just painful.

You're honestly better off losing in the conference finals. Happy to be there sounds great but isn't when you're four games from being in the history books.

Meh, it's all in the past once it's over. The winning, the losing ... all of it.

It's about the pursuit and the moment in my book.

[lolathon234]

Make it half the time and always win is the only logical choice.

Not even getting into the financial repercussions of the same team dominating a sport in near perpetuity, if you make the finals every year yet are only winning in the finals half the time, that means your conference is an absolute joke. Because at some point, unless your team is an absolute juggernaut and never falls off, one team has to build a counter after losing time after time to the same team in the playoffs. And if the other conference is capable of beating you half the time, then someone in-conference should be able to do it at least once in a generation. And if they can’t, then that is an indictment on the conference as a whole as being junior league status and not worthy of respect. Even without building a counter, at some point sheer chance should lead to some team beating you if they’re competent in the least

[Pennebaker]

1) Play 20 years. 20 Finals. 10 rings.
2) Play 20 years. 10 Finals. 10 rings.

I think you'd want option #1 because the worst you'd ever do every year is 2nd place.

Option #2 is giving you either bronze or you're finishing off of the podium entirely and who wants 10 seasons of that?

[TheGOATRises007]

As a fan of the team, I'd rather lose before the finals.

It'd be gut-punching to lose in the finals.

[thebigbird]

Horrible analogy. Last I checked all those people with silver medals actually have silver medals. The team that LOSES the NBA finals gets the exact same hardware as the team that finishes dead last in the regular season. I.e. NOTHING NADA ZIP.

The analogy works for the same reason that people who disparage silver medals are wrong. A silver medal is an accomplishment, even if it's not the most impressive one.

There's no actual award or consensus for being the GOAT of basketball, but most of us agree that it's MJ and hold him in high esteem accordingly, even though there's no formal reason to do so. But none of us would say that we don't respect the other nine players in the top-ten just because they aren't the GOAT, and none of us would say that Kareem and Shawn Bradley are basically worth the same since neither is the GOAT.

Championships are binary, but greatness isn't. Some are greater than others, but everyone is striving for greatness, we admire it whenever we see it, and those who achieve it treasure whatever they can get, even when it isn't quite as much as what the next guy up has.

you're right, a silver medal is an accomplishment which is why they give you an actual medal for it. No one gives you **** for losing the NBA finals. No one hangs a banner for that.

Are we going to ignore the fact that they give out conference championship trophies?

[Sark]

Lebron needs to win 3 in a row, in order to get to 6 out of 12, and then this can be a real discussion of 6 for 6 vs 6 for 12.

As of now it's 33% vs 100%, and it's self evident which is better.

[tonyreyes123]

'Losing half of all your finals means there were a few you choked in, so give me the the perfect record.

[Lalouie]

half the time at 100%

if you have a 10 year career and get to the finals 10x, it's largely on you and your teammates that you failed half the time and it will be perceived that way. the reason is 10 of 10 finals is dynastic meaning you're a dynastic team, meaning you have a great org that is able to maintain stability through injuries and player losses. to be able to maintain for 10 years becomes more and more an organizational thing, especially in these times when players move at will.

half the time at 100% means you are dominant when the chips are down.

in my math it goes something like this...teamA gets to the finals 10x in 10 years. teamB gets to the finals in 5 of those 10 years. they both won 5rings, but teamA won it's rings when it didn't have to face teamB,,,or DID and lost all 5 times. like it or not, that's how the story will be told.

100% is mythical. the legend will grow because people will always wonder what if, and they will make up their own hypotheticals.
50% shows a weakness and the truth is bare for all to see - there will be no myth.

i'll bet everyone right now is thinking mj's 6for6, and what's been the talk lately,,,"what about those 2 lost years". part of mj's myth is that he was 6for6. you can make up any myth you want. and if you're thinking of mj, you might be also thinking of lebron and his paltry 3of8 and there's a lot to assault there. but my scenario assume both teams are playing in the same time period. if it's cross eras, well then other factors get raised and the whole comparison is moot

[WICKED17]

What would make you happy

Hmm, 3 & 6 is 33%
The answer to your question is.. I’m going out on a limb here, lol.
Maybe, just maybe.. 6 for 6, thus 100 epic %.
Perhaps some context, should be considered. Who did the player that reached the finals more than 6x’s beat in their conference finals? How many wins did those conference finals opponents reach? Did they actually themselfs win a title? What level of underdog were they, and why? Was it due to lack or talent or overwhelming talent for the fav, likely answer both, fking both.

BTW, joined March 2020, welcome to the board. LMAO!

[YogurtProducer]

Depends if the franchise is undefeated for the championship previously

I prefer 6-0 over 7-5

Prefer being a wore team/franchise...just so weird.

It’s so dumb tbh