OT: COVID-19 thread #2

[Dresden]

Here's a good example of how biased Fox News is- yesterday Trump announced he needed "to find a new outlet", after Neil Cavuto of Fox railed against Trump's disclosure that he was taking hyrdocholoquine (or whatever it is) as a preventive measure. Cavuto told Fox listeners "absolutely do not take this- it will kill you!". Thus, Trump's statement that he needs to find, in effect, a new megaphone from which to broadcast his propaganda.

When is the last time, or the first time, you ever heard a democrat say something like that about any news outlet? That he was abandoning them because they didn't adhere to his party line?

And when Cavuto pointed out that the VA study showed this drug was dangerous, Trump replied that they study was carried out by people "who weren't big fans of ours". Implying that you can't trust anything scientists say unless you also know their political affiliation. This is a dangerous philosophy for the person who is making policy during a pandemic to have.

[Dresden]

And yes, you can say that some democrats won't go on Fox News because of their biases, but that's not the same thing as one of them telling MSNBC that they will no longer talk to them because they aren't doing a good enough job of backing up everything they say.

[League Circles]

Here's a good example of how biased Fox News is- yesterday Trump announced he needed "to find a new outlet", after Neil Cavuto of Fox railed against Trump's disclosure that he was taking hyrdocholoquine (or whatever it is) as a preventive measure. Cavuto told Fox listeners "absolutely do not take this- it will kill you!". Thus, Trump's statement that he needs to find, in effect, a new megaphone from which to broadcast his propaganda.

When is the last time, or the first time, you ever heard a democrat say something like that about any news outlet? That he was abandoning them because they didn't adhere to his party line?

And when Cavuto pointed out that the VA study showed this drug was dangerous, Trump replied that they study was carried out by people "who weren't big fans of ours". Implying that you can't trust anything scientists say unless you also know their political affiliation. This is a dangerous philosophy for the person who is making policy during a pandemic to have.

Sounds like you're citing an example of Fox objectivity, not bias lol. Not that I value or watch it (or the other garbage tv news platforms), but what you described is a criticism of Trump, not Fox.

[League Circles]

And yes, you can say that some democrats won't go on Fox News because of their biases, but that's not the same thing as one of them telling MSNBC that they will no longer talk to them because they aren't doing a good enough job of backing up everything they say.

Did Trump tell Fox that?

[moorhosj]

Umm, maybe they don't agree that people should be forced to provide for prisoners either?

Please explain how a functioning prison system works without taxpayer money.

[League Circles]

Umm, maybe they don't agree that people should be forced to provide for prisoners either?

Please explain how a functioning prison system works without taxpayer money.

Fields, crops, seeds, good luck.

One can also be "caring" without believing that the needs of prisoners, or a "functioning" prison system, trump individual freedom (of what to do with what would be tax dollars).

There's also a short term vs long term dynamic. Certain "caring" people may believe that it's right to help illegal immigrants with health care, and may show that belief by donating towards such causes, while also believing that illegal immigration is a terrible long term problem that must have disincentives implemented, and believe that that long term "caring" outweighs the short term "caring" of providing medical care for illegal immigrants (or prisoners, for example).

My point is that characterizing an enormous group of people as not caring because you have their religious beliefs figured out as hypocritical for them is a non starter. Good luck convincing them to modify their outlook while you're calling them immoral people. That's sure to be effective.

[Dresden]

Umm, maybe they don't agree that people should be forced to provide for prisoners either?

Please explain how a functioning prison system works without taxpayer money.

Fields, crops, seeds, good luck.

One can also be "caring" without believing that the needs of prisoners, or a "functioning" prison system, trump individual freedom (of what to do with what would be tax dollars).

There's also a short term vs long term dynamic. Certain "caring" people may believe that it's right to help illegal immigrants with health care, and may show that belief by donating towards such causes, while also believing that illegal immigration is a terrible long term problem that must have disincentives implemented, and believe that that long term "caring" outweighs the short term "caring" of providing medical care for illegal immigrants (or prisoners, for example).

My point is that characterizing an enormous group of people as not caring because you have their religious beliefs figured out as hypocritical for them is a non starter. Good luck convincing them to modify their outlook while you're calling them immoral people. That's sure to be effective.

When Jesus said "if you brother asks for your shirt, give him your jacket as well", I don't think he put in any stipulations about short term v. long term considerations, or that you ought to consider the disincentives you are creating by giving out free clothing. I don't think there were any footnotes to the gospels, explaining the conflict between individual choice and obligations to the poor. The message is much simpler- if a person needs help, you should do your best to give it to them.

I'm not making a comment on any one person's ethical or religious positions- I'm just pointing out that so many people in this county who profess to be Christians do a very poor job of living up to the teachings of that particular religion.

[Dresden]

And yes, you can say that some democrats won't go on Fox News because of their biases, but that's not the same thing as one of them telling MSNBC that they will no longer talk to them because they aren't doing a good enough job of backing up everything they say.

Did Trump tell Fox that?

Did you read what I wrote? He said he may have to start looking for a new outlet. What does that imply to you?

[League Circles]

Please explain how a functioning prison system works without taxpayer money.

Fields, crops, seeds, good luck.

One can also be "caring" without believing that the needs of prisoners, or a "functioning" prison system, trump individual freedom (of what to do with what would be tax dollars).

There's also a short term vs long term dynamic. Certain "caring" people may believe that it's right to help illegal immigrants with health care, and may show that belief by donating towards such causes, while also believing that illegal immigration is a terrible long term problem that must have disincentives implemented, and believe that that long term "caring" outweighs the short term "caring" of providing medical care for illegal immigrants (or prisoners, for example).

My point is that characterizing an enormous group of people as not caring because you have their religious beliefs figured out as hypocritical for them is a non starter. Good luck convincing them to modify their outlook while you're calling them immoral people. That's sure to be effective.

When Jesus said "if you brother asks for your shirt, give him your jacket as well", I don't think he put in any stipulations about short term v. long term considerations, or that you ought to consider the disincentives you are creating by giving out free clothing. I don't think there were any footnotes to the gospels, explaining the conflict between individual choice and obligations to the poor. The message is much simpler- if a person needs help, you should do your best to give it to them.

Yes, YOU should do YOUR best to help them. Are there bible passages that indicate not only should you do your best, but you should also support others being forced to contribute as well? I'm not a christian and don't know that answer for sure, but I believe the answer is no, which explains the frequent disconnect between the right and left, simply speaking, regarding charitable acts and how they relate to religious beliefs. A lot of very charitable people don't believe in government mandated charity, and yet give more themselves in charity than many who give nothing who believe government force should provide for all. FWIW, I'm not talking about my personal beliefs, just shedding some light on people you're talking about. There are also of course plenty of people who don't care for others at all, and yes I agree some of them identify as christians. Though Idk about your statement that "we call ourselves a christian nation". I know I don't.

[League Circles]

And yes, you can say that some democrats won't go on Fox News because of their biases, but that's not the same thing as one of them telling MSNBC that they will no longer talk to them because they aren't doing a good enough job of backing up everything they say.

Did Trump tell Fox that?

Did you read what I wrote? He said he may have to start looking for a new outlet. What does that imply to you?

Yes, you read very heavily into the implication you observed. I don't watch Fox so I don't know how often he appears on their programs. I was under the impression that the vast majority of his press statements are via Twitter and direct speech (press conferences, etc). If that's true, and even if it isn't, he could certainly just be saying he's looking for a new news outlet to consume himself. Is that not possible?

[TheEndIsNigh]

Did Trump tell Fox that?

Did you read what I wrote? He said he may have to start looking for a new outlet. What does that imply to you?

Yes, you read very heavily into the implication you observed. I don't watch Fox so I don't know how often he appears on their programs. I was under the impression that the vast majority of his press statements are via Twitter and direct speech (press conferences, etc). If that's true, and even if it isn't, he could certainly just be saying he's looking for a new news outlet to consume himself. Is that not possible?

Fox News was demonstrably downplaying the seriousness of the pandemic in its early stages. This is not contestabke, there is copious evidence. The only reason the rhetoric is shifted is due to the fear that they may be held accountable for the misinformation campaign. They are currently being sued for it, in fact.

This paragraph is taken from the court filing, "...engaging in unfair or deceptive acts by representing the coronavirus as a hoax in broadcasts that aired in February and March. Those broadcasts caused viewers to fail to adequately protect themselves or mitigate the virus’ spread, and therefore contributed to the public-health crisis and preventable mass death."

[League Circles]

Did you read what I wrote? He said he may have to start looking for a new outlet. What does that imply to you?

Yes, you read very heavily into the implication you observed. I don't watch Fox so I don't know how often he appears on their programs. I was under the impression that the vast majority of his press statements are via Twitter and direct speech (press conferences, etc). If that's true, and even if it isn't, he could certainly just be saying he's looking for a new news outlet to consume himself. Is that not possible?

Fox News was demonstrably downplaying the seriousness of the pandemic in its early stages. This is not contestabke, there is copious evidence. The only reason the rhetoric is shifted is due to the fear that they may be held accountable for the misinformation campaign. They are currently being sued for it, in fact.

This paragraph is taken from the court filing, "...engaging in unfair or deceptive acts by representing the coronavirus as a hoax in broadcasts that aired in February and March. Those broadcasts caused viewers to fail to adequately protect themselves or mitigate the virus’ spread, and therefore contributed to the public-health crisis and preventable mass death."

What does that have to do with what I'm saying about Dresden's comment?

FWIW, again, I don't watch Fox and am not trying to defend it just to be contrarian. I'm simple pointing out how easily and often people overstep the implications of evidence to try to make their subjective point. It's counterproductive IMO.

Also, let me know when the law suit is successful. It still won't pertain to what we're discussing, but it would be interesting, seeing as how Fox has industry support in their favor:

https://deadline.com/2020/05/coronavirus-fox-news-lawsuit-1202938672/

And if you're interested in keeping score of media downplaying corona, this may help you:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-pandemic-conservative-and-liberal-pundits-underestimated-threat/

I myself can't really understand the controversy and why so many people get riled up about tv news. It's all **** garbage. Straight up feces. It exists because too many people are too impatient to read anything, too uncomfortable with existing in a state of not having a strong opinion, and too interested in the products that are advertised on it.

[Dresden]

Fields, crops, seeds, good luck.

One can also be "caring" without believing that the needs of prisoners, or a "functioning" prison system, trump individual freedom (of what to do with what would be tax dollars).

There's also a short term vs long term dynamic. Certain "caring" people may believe that it's right to help illegal immigrants with health care, and may show that belief by donating towards such causes, while also believing that illegal immigration is a terrible long term problem that must have disincentives implemented, and believe that that long term "caring" outweighs the short term "caring" of providing medical care for illegal immigrants (or prisoners, for example).

My point is that characterizing an enormous group of people as not caring because you have their religious beliefs figured out as hypocritical for them is a non starter. Good luck convincing them to modify their outlook while you're calling them immoral people. That's sure to be effective.

When Jesus said "if you brother asks for your shirt, give him your jacket as well", I don't think he put in any stipulations about short term v. long term considerations, or that you ought to consider the disincentives you are creating by giving out free clothing. I don't think there were any footnotes to the gospels, explaining the conflict between individual choice and obligations to the poor. The message is much simpler- if a person needs help, you should do your best to give it to them.

Yes, YOU should do YOUR best to help them. Are there bible passages that indicate not only should you do your best, but you should also support others being forced to contribute as well? I'm not a christian and don't know that answer for sure, but I believe the answer is no, which explains the frequent disconnect between the right and left, simply speaking, regarding charitable acts and how they relate to religious beliefs. A lot of very charitable people don't believe in government mandated charity, and yet give more themselves in charity than many who give nothing who believe government force should provide for all. FWIW, I'm not talking about my personal beliefs, just shedding some light on people you're talking about. There are also of course plenty of people who don't care for others at all, and yes I agree some of them identify as christians. Though Idk about your statement that "we call ourselves a christian nation". I know I don't.

We already fund public hospitals and public health systems, so, as you put it, "others are already being forced to contribute" to providing health care for those not able to afford private care. The only question is whether that should be extended to care for people who are undocumented. Helping these people is something that I do believe is in keeping with the values I want to see our nation practice.

I would much rather my tax dollars go towards helping sick people get medical care than buying more jet fighters at 143 million dollars apiece.

[Chi town]

The medical care for undocumented immigrants is a worthy one to have with lots of layers. I have friends that are the very people in need right now and are sick and won’t leave their house for care in fear of getting Covid or getting less care than a citizen would.

Dresden, what are your thoughts on the homeless situation here in our backyard that is growing quickly in the tenderloin? Hotels? Free drugs? 3 meals per day delivered? I serve with a local non profit in the tenderloin. It’s quite a scene.

[PlayerUp]

Here's a good example of how biased Fox News is

Of course Fox News is biased towards the president. They are for the most part conservative with the exception of a couple more moderate leaning democratic anchors on there. The same argument is said about CNN/MSNBC which is completely anti Trump.

Those still debating if a news channel is biased or not for or against the president is delusional these days. It's crystal clear the news agencies and what party they represent.

[dice]

Here's a good example of how biased Fox News is

Of course Fox News is biased towards the president. They are for the most part conservative with the exception of a couple more moderate leaning democratic anchors on there. The same argument is said about CNN/MSNBC which is completely anti Trump.

Those still debating if a news channel is biased or not for or against the president is delusional these days. It's crystal clear the news agencies and what party they represent.

CNN is only "completely anti-trump" to the degree that the facts are completely anti-trump. he lies constantly, they report it. there simply isn't any way around it. his behavior is unprecedented

here's a decent summary of the evolution of the cable news landscape:

https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-cnn-change-evolution-2010-2019-11#while-for-fox-news-lachlan-murdoch-rupert-murdochs-son-and-fox-corps-ceo-is-reportedly-already-looking-at-a-future-after-trump-54

[Dresden]

The medical care for undocumented immigrants is a worthy one to have with lots of layers. I have friends that are the very people in need right now and are sick and won’t leave their house for care in fear of getting Covid or getting less care than a citizen would.

Dresden, what are your thoughts on the homeless situation here in our backyard that is growing quickly in the tenderloin? Hotels? Free drugs? 3 meals per day delivered? I serve with a local non profit in the tenderloin. It’s quite a scene.

I don't know how to measure the homeless population and whether it's gotten worse during the pandemic. I know I did see a line of about 8 tents in a row on a sidewalk by the DMV the other day. But I don't know if there are more homeless or they are just not getting rousted as much during the pandemic. I read that they are being housed in empty hotels, but obviously not all of them are. I honestly don't know how to solve the homeless problem. That population has so many needs and I"m not real familiar with what is being done, and what's working and what's not. It's horrible to see human beings living like animals on the streets though.

[Dresden]

Here's a good example of how biased Fox News is

Of course Fox News is biased towards the president. They are for the most part conservative with the exception of a couple more moderate leaning democratic anchors on there. The same argument is said about CNN/MSNBC which is completely anti Trump.

Those still debating if a news channel is biased or not for or against the president is delusional these days. It's crystal clear the news agencies and what party they represent.

Did you ever hear of a president talking about a network as his own personal mouthpiece the way Trump talks about Fox? Did Obama or Clinton only talk to CNN or MSNBC? The fact that Trump feels so comfortable talking with the Fox anchors reflects just how uncritical they are towards anything he does. Obama and Clinton never got that sort of one sided coverage from CNN or MSNBC.

[Ccwatercraft]

I had no idea so many posters here spent so much time watching fox news.

Even with a lot of extra free time that the April lockdown provided I went straight for my movie collection and started a couple new shows on Netflix. I sure as hell didnt dive into deep observation of a news channel that I dislike.

If there is a person out there that isn't aware that all of the major cable news channels (fox, cnn, msnbc) have bias they have been living under a rock but anyone of average intelligence that goes out of their way to specifically deny that any of those outlets have bias is even more ridiculous.

Anyway, Covid-19


Florida is heading into phase 3, I'm not sure if there is a phase 4 since pretty much everything is open, the glory days in April where my commute times were cut in half are over, gyms, salons are open. Local marina/bar did Bike Night last night. A good 200 people milling around.

If someone has been holed up in their house for 6 weeks and heads out today they will have a heart attack over the amount of people out there and probably run back inside. We are certainly testing the waters here and I'll be interested in seeing the stats in about 3 weeks.

Local news now doing about half covid half regular news, (vs 99% covid) still doing a memorial now and then over a covid death but they are all well into their 80s if not older.

Getting on a plane Saturday to fly out west but its unavoidable, have more trips planned for June if I can figure out the airlines crazy new schedules, things are really shuffled around with reduced flights. Fingers crossed that I get a middle seat!

[GetBuLLish]

Great article on how good a job Florida's governor has done to limit the impact of the virus without enforcing draconian lockdown measures:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/coronavirus-crisis-ron-desantis-florida-covid-19-strategy/

Funny that his popularity numbers have gone down, while the popularity numbers of Governor Cuomo (NY) have gone up, despite his handling of the pandemic being an unmitigated disaster.

Just shows how powerful the media still is today and how gullible so many people are.