2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

Post #1561 » by **moocow007** » Wed May 20, 2020 2:52 pm

In terms of BPA...

It's interesting to take a look at some of the mock sites big boards. These are the player rankings that do not include a team that they are mocked to go to, so fit/need doesn't come into play.

Tankathon for example has this as their top 30 players. There are surprises I think for some folks and buck trends. Here's my take on some of these guys in their big board.

1. LaMelo Ball - like I've said all along, you may not like his personality or his dad but there's no question about Ball being an elite talent that, playing with better players than he had in Australia may actually make his game standout even more (scary), he would be the biggest needle mover for so many teams (including the Knicks) that him going 1st overall makes a whole lot of sense.
2. Onyeka Okongwu - I was one of the first people on this board to point out Okongwu as someone that can do even better in the NBA than he has shown in college, his physical tools, his feel for the game, his competitiveness and just how he moves on both ends of the floor screams "The Natural" to me. Defensively he can impact right away but offensively if you really watch him there's potential for him to really make some noise at the next level as well. He is not simply a short C as some may be mistakenly thinking he is. Apparently Tankathon sees the same. Also seems like the Okongwu bandwagon has started picking up a lot more passengers. I'll tell you right now, he's more talented, smarter and more fluid than Bam Adebayo was at the same point.
3. Killian Hayes
4. James Wiseman - all the question marks aside, there is no denying the physical tools or the upside potential, tools and upside, Wiseman is probably tops in this draft. If he can realize it, he'd be the most dominant player in this draft.
5. Tyrese Haliburton
6. Obi Toppin
7. Anthony Edwards - Wow, Edwards drops all the way to 7. Very surprising cause IMO Edwards is the best offensive player in this draft and he has some serious defensive potential. I don't know that I'd take his annoying combination of settling and forcing things that much against him to drop him down to 7. He has all the tools to be a no.1 option in the NBA and you don't find many of those this far down in the draft lottery. If he's still available at this point (and quite possibly wherever he's available and Ball is not) and the Knicks are up you take 'Antman' in a second, thank your lucky stars and worry about how he fits with Barrett later.
8. Deni Avdija
9. RJ Hampton
10. Aleksej Pokuševski - surprising that he's moved into the top 10. but then again, I haven't really seen him play so...
11. Devin Vassell
12. Josh Green - looks like Green leapfrogged a bunch of other wings that folks have been fawning over (i.e. Okoro, Saddiq Bey, etc).
13. Isaac Okoro
14. Tyler Bey
15. Jalen Smith - kinda suprising. Smith is interesting. On the one hand he's got a terrific physique and he can shoot. He's also got pogo sticks for legs and enough athleticism to finish plays for dunks. On the other hand, I just don't know that he has a great or even all that good of a feel for the game and he can look mechanical at times because of it and be out of position looking lost quite regularly. He tries (so it's not like he's necessarily lazy), but there's just something missing from my standpoint watching him play. Smith is the "anti-Natural". It almost seems like it takes a little bit for his brain to digest the play, what he needs to do and communicate it to the rest of his body. The last guy that had this 'pause' or 'delay' that I called out specifically before he was drafted was Brandon Knight who, as I said, has not been able to do well in the NBA as a result.
16. Paul Reed - this is the guy that was probably the most underrated player in this draft, the guy that folks seem to not be talking about. Reed is the closest thing IMO to a Pascal Siakam of this draft. Long, wiry guy that has a naturalness to his game, a unshaking competitive fire and a lot of tools that folks don't seem to realize. The type of things that got Siakam noticed by some of the more competent teams in the NBA. Reed also has been compared to Siakam in some regards. If I had to pick one guy that generally is projected to be a bottom half of the 1st round pick most likely to become a star, it's Reed. So good to see him move up on Tankathon's board.
17. Cole Anthony - Wow, this is the next most obvious shocking drop (Edwards being the first), doesn't look like Tankathon likes Anthony's projection to the NBA. I have some concerns as well but not to the degree that I'd expect him to be around at 17.
18. Saddiq Bey
19. Kira Lewis Jr.
20. Jahmi'us Ramsey
21. Tyrese Maxey - Another guy that some folks rave about that I don't necessarily see the reason for. He's not a PG and I don't know that he has the offensive skills to be a starting SG in the NBA.
22. Nico Mannion
23. Theo Maledon
24. Aaron Nesmith - appears that his shooting ability doesn't totally make up for his lack of much of anything else to his game that projects at the next level and Tankathon has him pegged more as a jumpshooting specialist.
25. Tre Jones
26. Reggie Perry
27. Vernon Carey Jr. - Another guy that I mentioned as someone that could potentially be a steal in this draft. If the draft goes exactly like this, this is where the Knicks pick from the Clips would be right? Honestly, I've said this before, I really like Carey's game and he has some serious NBA potential. It's rare to see a fluid monster sized (270lbs) near 7 footer that is as quick and light on his feet and that has the type of fluidity to his game that Carey has (kinda reminds me of a former Knick when he was coming out of Thornwood HS). He's not a plodder by any means and even has some interesting ball skills. Another thing that is interesting is that although he didn't take many shots, the form on his shot is exceptional for a guy his size. If he can consistently hit a 3, he's got some serious potential to do damage as an inside-outside type like Joel Embiid. I'm honestly not worried about his weight or that this size won't translate to today's game. Wendell Carter Jr is doing just fine for the Bulls and Carey is right along the same line.
28. Isaiah Stewart
29. Tyrell Terry
30. Cassius Stanley - I also mentioned Stanley as a potential draft darkhorse (steal). Stanley IMO didn't get a chance to really show everything he's capable of. He has NBA athleticism and hops no question, but the intensity, feel and fluidity is also top notch. If he had stayed another year I would expect Stanley to be viewed as a top 10 pick in the next draft easily.

One guy that is (kinda) surprisingly not in their top 30 is Jaden McDaniels. From a pure talent and upside standpoint he may be top 5. But guess the serious concerns about whether he's really serious about the game is such that Tankathon didn't think he's even in the top 30. McDaniels is the biggest BOOM or BUST player in this draft.

3toheadmelo · Post #1562 » by **3toheadmelo** » Wed May 20, 2020 3:03 pm

Deni is an intriguing talent. High floor but not sure about his potential. DX has us taking him at #6

RHODEY · Post #1563 » by **RHODEY** » Wed May 20, 2020 3:22 pm

moocow007 wrote:In terms of BPA...

It's interesting to take a look at some of the mock sites big boards. These are the player rankings that do not include a team that they are mocked to go to, so fit/need doesn't come into play.

Tankathon for example has this as their top 30 players. There are surprises I think for some folks and buck trends. Here's my take on some of these guys in their big board.

1. LaMelo Ball - like I've said all along, you may not like his personality or his dad but there's no question about Ball being an elite talent that, playing with better players than he had in Australia may actually make his game standout even more (scary), he would be the biggest needle mover for so many teams (including the Knicks) that him going 1st overall makes a whole lot of sense.
2. Onyeka Okongwu - I was one of the first people on this board to point out Okongwu as someone that can do even better in the NBA than he has shown in college, his physical tools, his feel for the game, his competitiveness and just how he moves on both ends of the floor screams "The Natural" to me. Defensively he can impact right away but offensively if you really watch him there's potential for him to really make some noise at the next level as well. He is not simply a short C as some may be mistakenly thinking he is. Apparently Tankathon sees the same. Also seems like the Okongwu bandwagon has started picking up a lot more passengers. I'll tell you right now, he's more talented, smarter and more fluid than Bam Adebayo was at the same point.
3. Killian Hayes
4. James Wiseman - all the question marks aside, there is no denying the physical tools or the upside potential, tools and upside, Wiseman is probably tops in this draft. If he can realize it, he'd be the most dominant player in this draft.
5. Tyrese Haliburton
6. Obi Toppin
7. Anthony Edwards - Wow, Edwards drops all the way to 7. Very surprising cause IMO Edwards is the best offensive player in this draft and he has some serious defensive potential. I don't know that I'd take his annoying combination of settling and forcing things that much against him to drop him down to 7. He has all the tools to be a no.1 option in the NBA and you don't find many of those this far down in the draft lottery.
8. Deni Avdija
9. RJ Hampton
10. Aleksej Pokuševski - surprising that he's moved into the top 10. but then again, I haven't really seen him play so...
11. Devin Vassell
12. Josh Green - looks like Green leapfrogged a bunch of other wings that folks have been fawning over (i.e. Okoro, Saddiq Bey, etc).
13. Isaac Okoro
14. Tyler Bey
15. Jalen Smith - kinda suprising. Smith is interesting. On the one hand he's got a terrific physique and he can shoot. He's also got pogo sticks for legs and enough athleticism to finish plays for dunks. On the other hand, I just don't know that he has a great or even all that good of a feel for the game and he can look mechanical at times because of it and be out of position looking lost quite regularly. He tries (so it's not like he's necessarily lazy), but there's just something missing from my standpoint watching him play.
16. Paul Reed - this is the guy that was probably the most underrated player in this draft, the guy that folks seem to not be talking about. Reed is the closest thing IMO to a Pascal Siakam of this draft. Long, wiry guy that has a naturalness to his game, a unshaking competitive fire and a lot of tools that folks don't seem to realize. The type of things that got Siakam noticed by some of the more competent teams in the NBA. Reed also has been compared to Siakam in some regards. If I had to pick one guy that generally is projected to be a bottom half of the 1st round pick most likely to become a star, it's Reed. So good to see him move up on Tankathon's board.
17. Cole Anthony - Wow, this is the next most obvious shocking drop (Edwards being the first), doesn't look like Tankathon likes Anthony's projection to the NBA. I have some concerns as well but not to the degree that I'd expect him to be around at 17.
18. Saddiq Bey
19. Kira Lewis Jr.
20. Jahmi'us Ramsey
21. Tyrese Maxey - Another guy that some folks rave about that I don't necessarily see the reason for. He's not a PG and I don't know that he has the offensive skills to be a starting SG in the NBA.
22. Nico Mannion
23. Theo Maledon
24. Aaron Nesmith - appears that his shooting ability doesn't totally make up for his lack of much of anything else to his game that projects at the next level and Tankathon has him pegged more as a jumpshooting specialist.
25. Tre Jones
26. Reggie Perry
27. Vernon Carey Jr. - Another guy that I mentioned as someone that could potentially be a steal in this draft. If the draft goes exactly like this, this is where the Knicks pick from the Clips would be right? Honestly, I've said this before, I really like Carey's game and he has some serious NBA potential. It's rare to see a fluid monster sized (270lbs) near 7 footer that is as quick and light on his feet and that has the type of fluidity to his game that Carey has. He's not a plodder by any means and even has some interesting ball skills. Another thing that is interesting is that although he didn't take many shots, the form on his shot is exceptional for a guy his size. If he can consistently hit a 3, he's got some serious potential to do damage. I'm honestly not worried about his weight or that this size won't translate to today's game. Wendell Carter Jr is doing just fine for the Bulls and Carey is right along the same line.
28. Isaiah Stewart
29. Tyrell Terry
30. Cassius Stanley - I also mentioned Stanley as a potential draft darkhorse (steal). Stanley IMO didn't get a chance to really show everything he's capable of. He has NBA athleticism and hops no question, but the intensity, feel and fluidity is also top notch. If he had stayed another year I would expect Stanley to be viewed as a top 10 pick in the next draft easily.

One guy that is (kinda) surprisingly not in their top 30 is Jaden McDaniels. From a pure talent and upside standpoint he may be top 5. But guess the serious concerns about whether he's really serious about the game is such that Tankathon didn't think he's even in the top 30. McDaniels is the biggest BOOM or BUST player in this draft.

Thanks...I really like Carey, I've heard his name floating around but it seems like the dude is two way and can really ball - I see a nice blend of fundamental skill and physicality...

Watch on YouTube

newyorker4ever · Post #1564 » by **newyorker4ever** » Wed May 20, 2020 5:23 pm

https://email.fansided.com/c/eJx1TktuxCAUOw3ZEfFLSBZZTDXlAj1AxYRHgxIgAqJRbl9Q15We_CTbsm0WLcZJ8s4tjDBCBkaoIJKwnvbqU80DV4QySafHKJAgVofsDJh-jb7bFm2kllSIWQqwfJXDaIFxsMYO4jVx3h3LVsqZEX8gpuoZ7Y57D27dc4uoTGutjwwV6FzhT8UmaVtwuRNkwJs-3OtKJQacQJsbn5XOVwIc4I3vmPYWz9VV_Peq_andT0D8qXT4amsR-3i2YsTG5sjxSiv8r3sw7vJVB1_ZLi1gjIP-DdUpyK23GNv4X8L5ZEY

Draft prospect Tyrese Haliburton is not worried about the pressure of playing in New York, if he happens to be drafted by the New York Knicks.
NBA lottery prospect Tyrese Haliburton could find his way to the New York Knicks depending on how the ping pong balls fall and scouting reports shake out leading up to the 2020 NBA draft. When asked about the possibility of joining the Knicks and playing under the pressure of the Madison Square Garden lights, the Iowa State guard embraced the challenge.

“Being in New York, it’s always talked about, the pressure of being a Knick,” Haliburton told Rachel Nichols on The Jump on Tuesday. “But I feel like no matter where I go, the pressure I put on myself is more than I’ll get from anywhere. For me, no matter where I’m at, I feel like that pressure is prominent and it’ll be more from me than anywhere. So I’m ready to play anywhere.”

HEZI · Post #1565 » by **HEZI** » Wed May 20, 2020 5:35 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:Deni is an intriguing talent. High floor but not sure about his potential. DX has us taking him at #6

Mecca · Post #1566 » by **Mecca** » Wed May 20, 2020 5:58 pm

18 year old tings

Watch on YouTube

HEZI · Post #1567 » by **HEZI** » Wed May 20, 2020 6:13 pm

Mecca wrote:18 year old tings

Watch on YouTube

Just to add some context to this highlight but wasn't this the game where he shot 1-11 from 3 and had 6 turnovers en route to their 2nd loss to RJ Hampton's squad? Or was that the highlight from their first matchup blowout loss where he went 3-13 from the field with 5 turnovers while Hampton was locking him?

Mecca · Post #1568 » by **Mecca** » Wed May 20, 2020 6:19 pm

HEZI wrote:
Mecca wrote:18 year old tings

Watch on YouTube

Just to add some context to this highlight but wasn't this the game where he shot 1-11 from 3 and had 6 turnovers en route to their 2nd loss to RJ Hampton's squad? Or was that the highlight from their first matchup blowout loss where he went 3-13 from the field with 5 turnovers while Hampton was locking him?

I get your point, but the Hawks have been a notoriously bad team prior to LaMelo joining.

HEZI · Post #1569 » by **HEZI** » Wed May 20, 2020 6:21 pm

Mecca wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Mecca wrote:18 year old tings

Watch on YouTube

Just to add some context to this highlight but wasn't this the game where he shot 1-11 from 3 and had 6 turnovers en route to their 2nd loss to RJ Hampton's squad? Or was that the highlight from their first matchup blowout loss where he went 3-13 from the field with 5 turnovers while Hampton was locking him?

I get your point, but the Hawks have been a notoriously bad team prior to LaMelo joining.

Hawks Knicks

robillionaire · Post #1570 » by **robillionaire** » Wed May 20, 2020 6:30 pm

HEZI wrote:
Mecca wrote:18 year old tings

Watch on YouTube

Just to add some context to this highlight but wasn't this the game where he shot 1-11 from 3 and had 6 turnovers en route to their 2nd loss to RJ Hampton's squad? Or was that the highlight from their first matchup blowout loss where he went 3-13 from the field with 5 turnovers while Hampton was locking him?

that's all fair but in the interest of full transparency we should mention that he also had a 25 12 and 10 triple double in the game becoming the first player in the modern history of the league to have b2b triple doubles

HEZI · Post #1571 » by **HEZI** » Wed May 20, 2020 6:40 pm

robillionaire wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Mecca wrote:18 year old tings

Watch on YouTube

Just to add some context to this highlight but wasn't this the game where he shot 1-11 from 3 and had 6 turnovers en route to their 2nd loss to RJ Hampton's squad? Or was that the highlight from their first matchup blowout loss where he went 3-13 from the field with 5 turnovers while Hampton was locking him?

that's all fair but in the interest of full transparency we should mention that he also had a 25 12 and 10 triple double in the game becoming the first player in the modern history of the league to have b2b triple doubles

That looks good written down until you realize he shot terribly, turned the ball over a ton and his team got spanked. Wasn't he throwing the ball off the backboard on purpose trying to chase a triple double in one of those games?

I see the talent with Lamelo but I just don't like him. Don't think I will ever like him no matter what he does or doesn't do in the league. Lonzo is a lot more likeable than him.

robillionaire · Post #1572 » by **robillionaire** » Wed May 20, 2020 6:43 pm

HEZI wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
HEZI wrote:
Just to add some context to this highlight but wasn't this the game where he shot 1-11 from 3 and had 6 turnovers en route to their 2nd loss to RJ Hampton's squad? Or was that the highlight from their first matchup blowout loss where he went 3-13 from the field with 5 turnovers while Hampton was locking him?

that's all fair but in the interest of full transparency we should mention that he also had a 25 12 and 10 triple double in the game becoming the first player in the modern history of the league to have b2b triple doubles

I see the talent with Lamelo but I just don't like him. Don't think I will ever like him no matter what he does or doesn't do in the league.

Okay, see, I can accept that and appreciate the honesty. :lol:

I like Hampton too btw. Would love some scenario where we walk away from this with both players

3toheadmelo · Post #1573 » by **3toheadmelo** » Wed May 20, 2020 6:44 pm

HEZI wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Deni is an intriguing talent. High floor but not sure about his potential. DX has us taking him at #6

I think he’s decent. He had solid court vision, nice handles,good defender, can shoot the 3 (although inconsistent). But what stood out the most was how fast he is at 6’9. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a star and would just be a role player though. Haven’t seen much isolation skills besides a size up dribble and a pull up 3.

Post #1574 » by **moocow007** » Wed May 20, 2020 8:31 pm

Tornelyus wrote:
bleedblue3303 wrote:Our second round pick wouldn't hate a pick of Derrick Alston Jr. avg. 21 pts a game. 6'9" guard. This kid can shoot!!

Watch on YouTube

Is he related with Westchester Knicks coach Derrick Alston? Size and range look interesting.

Yes, that's his dad.

Post #1575 » by **moocow007** » Wed May 20, 2020 8:32 pm

aggo wrote:#1 pgs in any draft dont have broken shots.

Markelle Fultz with a broken shoulder and mental block has a better shot than Ball.

Have you seen Lonzo Ball's shot? He was the #1 PG in his draft.

Watch on YouTube

In case anyone is curious about what exactly was "wrong" with Lonzo's shot

Watch on YouTube

Post #1576 » by **moocow007** » Wed May 20, 2020 8:59 pm

knickstape21 wrote:

Watch on YouTube

One of my favorites in the draft. Honestly not sure why he isn’t getting more love. His offensive improvement from junior year to senior year was eye opening.

Would sprint to the podium to select him at 38 if he’s still there.

Hey I mentioned him early on as well. Definitely at 38 if he's still there.

DaGawd · Post #1577 » by **DaGawd** » Wed May 20, 2020 10:14 pm

This draft lottery isn't happening any time soon is it...

HEZI · Post #1578 » by **HEZI** » Wed May 20, 2020 10:36 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
HEZI wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Deni is an intriguing talent. High floor but not sure about his potential. DX has us taking him at #6

I think he’s decent. He had solid court vision, nice handles,good defender, can shoot the 3 (although inconsistent). But what stood out the most was how fast he is at 6’9. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a star and would just be a role player though. Haven’t seen much isolation skills besides a size up dribble and a pull up 3.

The league he plays in is straight trash and he hasn't shown to be much more than a role player even there. I think he's got some NBA talent so he stands out amongst those guys but overall as an NBA prospect he's nothing special. Wouldn't waste a lotto pick on him. If we want a 4 then we better target Obi and not a scrub like Avdija

3toheadmelo · Post #1579 » by **3toheadmelo** » Wed May 20, 2020 11:16 pm

HEZI wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
HEZI wrote:

I think he’s decent. He had solid court vision, nice handles,good defender, can shoot the 3 (although inconsistent). But what stood out the most was how fast he is at 6’9. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a star and would just be a role player though. Haven’t seen much isolation skills besides a size up dribble and a pull up 3.

The league he plays in is straight trash and he hasn't shown to be much more than a role player even there. I think he's got some NBA talent so he stands out amongst those guys but overall as an NBA prospect he's nothing special. Wouldn't waste a lotto pick on him. If we want a 4 then we better target Obi and not a scrub like Avdija

Yeah the competition looks really weak there so it’s even harder to project his upside. Would def rather have Obi if we do go after a 4.

HarthorneWingo · Post #1580 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Wed May 20, 2020 11:16 pm

HEZI wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
HEZI wrote:

I think he’s decent. He had solid court vision, nice handles,good defender, can shoot the 3 (although inconsistent). But what stood out the most was how fast he is at 6’9. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a star and would just be a role player though. Haven’t seen much isolation skills besides a size up dribble and a pull up 3.

The league he plays in is straight trash and he hasn't shown to be much more than a role player even there. I think he's got some NBA talent so he stands out amongst those guys but overall as an NBA prospect he's nothing special. Wouldn't waste a lotto pick on him. If we want a 4 then we better target Obi and not a scrub like Avdija

I was intrigued by him at first and then I started getting some Super Mario vibes. Then I found out he’s Albanian.

So I’m gonna root for him no matter where he ends up. It’s gonna be really difficult to properly evaluate these players without getting to watch them go against each other at the pre-draft workouts.