OT: COVID-19 thread #2

[Dresden]

The medical care for undocumented immigrants is a worthy one to have with lots of layers. I have friends that are the very people in need right now and are sick and won’t leave their house for care in fear of getting Covid or getting less care than a citizen would.

Dresden, what are your thoughts on the homeless situation here in our backyard that is growing quickly in the tenderloin? Hotels? Free drugs? 3 meals per day delivered? I serve with a local non profit in the tenderloin. It’s quite a scene.

I don't know how to measure the homeless population and whether it's gotten worse during the pandemic. I know I did see a line of about 8 tents in a row on a sidewalk by the DMV the other day. But I don't know if there are more homeless or they are just not getting rousted as much during the pandemic. I read that they are being housed in empty hotels, but obviously not all of them are. I honestly don't know how to solve the homeless problem. That population has so many needs and I"m not real familiar with what is being done, and what's working and what's not. It's horrible to see human beings living like animals on the streets though.

1. Hundreds are being housed in hotels with 3 meals per day.

2. Free alcohol and drugs are being delivered and given to them in the hotels and on the streets.

3. The tenderloin homeless population has exploded. 300% increase.

4. Over 80% of SF homeless people have mental illness.

5. Child homelessness has grown a lot over the past 3 years.

It’s sad. Money and free drugs isn’t solving the problem.

It sounds terrible- giving free alcohol and drugs to homeless people, but there are sound public health reasons behind it. they want the homeless off the streets to help prevent the spread of COVID 19. Those with underlying problems or over 60 are given priority. They don't want someone with an alcohol problem to go into withdrawal, so limited quantities of booze are being provided to them, under the supervision of a physician. It's not like they get all the Jameson they can drink. And it's not being funded by taxpayer dollars- it's coming from some unnamed private sources.

Same with pot- you can get limited quantities to avoid withdrawal, under a doctor's supervision. You're also given the option of entering into treatment.

No other drugs are provided, other than methadone, to prevent opiate withdrawals.

It's still a small fraction of the homeless that are being housed through this. They wanted about 8,000 beds, last I heard they only had 700.

[coldfish]

When Florida becomes the new New York we'll see how well everyone thinks DeSantis is doing....

In NY in Jan/Feb/Mar you had:
- No one being told to wear masks, stay home or socially distance
- No testing
- A poor understanding of symptoms and disease spread
- Cold weather forcing people inside
- Multiple disease entry points
- The most densely packed city in the US that also has lots of public transportation

It was a perfect storm that can't be replicated.

This isn't some defense of Florida or any other state. Its just reality. Quite frankly, setting the bar there is always going to make states like Florida look good because they are always going to do better than that. Desantis could be laying in a pool of his own tequila induced vomit madly yelling "did we give up when the germans bombed pearl harbor!!" and he would produce better results than NYC.

[dice]

CNN is only "completely anti-trump" to the degree that the facts are completely anti-trump. he lies constantly, they report it. there simply isn't any way around it. his behavior is unprecedented

I think everyone knows this by now? It's nothing new. Trump talks a alot, can't control himself so he gets caught up saying BS in the process as he rambles on. No denying Obama was well spoken but I'm pretty mute to what any politician says at this point. I'm very anti federal government, I believe all of them are corrupt manipulating their voters with hidden agendas and pleasing the people who paid to get them into office which is why I support no party.

The US so badly needs more than a 2 party system and this years 2020 election is yet another example why we need just that.

well, that's never going to happen unless it's a centrist party that roughly splits the ideological difference between the democrats and the birthers. because the introduction of a 3rd party in a presidential race only serves to throw the election to the party with the most differing ideology. a right wing 3rd party would ensure victory for democrats. a left wing 3rd party would ensure victory for the birthers. there's a reason why we've never maintained more than 2 parties in the long term in the nation's history. there's a reason why bernie sanders and "the squad" run as a democrats. it's because of the constitution and our winner-take-all election system

want a viable 3rd party? find a place where representation is divvied up according to percentage of support. e.g. a social democratic party led by bernie sanders that gets 8% of the vote ends up w/ 8% of the seats in congress. as things stand in the united states (and will continue to barring radical changes to the electoral system), "outsider" candidates must be elected as or caucus with one of the major parties and alter the makeup of that party from within. which, frankly, isn't a much different outcome at the end of the day

[Dresden]

If there's one silver lining to this pandemic:

Trump could suffer ‘historic defeat’ in November: Oxford Economics

"The key variable in the Oxford model is a sharp economic contraction in swing states that fuels dissatisfaction with Trump and his fellow Republicans, and bolsters Democratic turnout. In the model, Biden, the former vice president, wins all the usual Democratic states plus seven states Trump won in 2016: Iowa, Michigan, Missouri, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

The outcome would give Biden 65% of the popular vote, and Trump just 35%. Biden would win the electoral vote 328 – 210, the worst womping of an incumbent president since Jimmy Carter lost to Ronald Reagan in 1980. In 2016, Trump lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton, 48% to 46%, but swing state victories gave him a 306-232 electoral college win. The Oxford model predicted Hillary Clinton’s popular vote win, but not Trump’s electoral college margin. In 18 presidential elections dating to 1948, the Oxford model got the popular vote winner wrong only twice, in 1968 and 1976."

[Dresden]

Why is it that the last two economic catastrophes have both been presided over by republican administrations? Not to mention 9-11, the worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor? Just a coincidence? Or do republicans have a habit lately of electing inept presidents?

Knock it off, this is pure political baiting. Go to the CA forum if you want to fight about politics.

[Dresden]

Lockdown Delays Cost at Least 36,000 Lives, Data Show

"Even small differences in timing would have prevented the worst exponential growth, which by April had subsumed New York City, New Orleans and other major cities, researchers found.
If the United States had begun imposing social distancing measures one week earlier than it did in March, about 36,000 fewer people would have died in the coronavirus outbreak, according to new estimates from Columbia University disease modelers."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/us/coronavirus-distancing-deaths.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

[PlayerUp]

well, that's never going to happen unless it's a centrist party that roughly splits the ideological difference between the democrats and the birthers. because the introduction of a 3rd party in a presidential race only serves to throw the election to the party with the most differing ideology. a right wing 3rd party would ensure victory for democrats. a left wing 3rd party would ensure victory for the birthers. there's a reason why we've never maintained more than 2 parties in the long term in the nation's history. there's a reason why bernie sanders and "the squad" run as a democrats. it's because of the constitution and our winner-take-all election system

4 party system with green/socialist, classic liberals, conservative and libertarian parties. Would fix alot of issues in the federal government. Would require a huge movement which isn't happening anytime soon I agree.

[PlayerUp]

Why is it that the last two economic catastrophes have both been presided over by republican administrations? Not to mention 9-11, the worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor? Just a coincidence? Or do republicans have a habit lately of electing inept presidents?

Neither are the fault of the sitting presidents.

[Dresden]

Why is it that the last two economic catastrophes have both been presided over by republican administrations? Not to mention 9-11, the worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor? Just a coincidence? Or do republicans have a habit lately of electing inept presidents?

Neither are the fault of the sitting presidents.

So the buck doesn't stop there? I can just imagine what republican strategists would be making of those facts had it been democrats at the helm...

[dougthonus]

Why is it that the last two economic catastrophes have both been presided over by republican administrations? Not to mention 9-11, the worst attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor? Just a coincidence? Or do republicans have a habit lately of electing inept presidents?

Neither are the fault of the sitting presidents.

So the buck doesn't stop there? I can just imagine what republican strategists would be making of those facts had it been democrats at the helm...

This isn't a politics forum. Go to the Current Affairs forum on this site if you want to talk about politics rather than starting a fight here that has nothing to do with coronavirus.

[moorhosj]

Neither are the fault of the sitting presidents.

As leaders of the Federal government, the President owns every aspect of the response to events like this. Bush owned the decision to invade Iraq after 9/11, even if the attack wasn’t his fault. He also owned the response to Hurricane Katrina, even though the hurricane wasn’t his fault.

COVID-19 isn’t Trump’s fault. Our horrible, disjointed response to it is. We are seeing higher rates of death AND more economic devastation than almost all other advanced countries. He owns it.

[Michael Jackson]

I don't know how to measure the homeless population and whether it's gotten worse during the pandemic. I know I did see a line of about 8 tents in a row on a sidewalk by the DMV the other day. But I don't know if there are more homeless or they are just not getting rousted as much during the pandemic. I read that they are being housed in empty hotels, but obviously not all of them are. I honestly don't know how to solve the homeless problem. That population has so many needs and I"m not real familiar with what is being done, and what's working and what's not. It's horrible to see human beings living like animals on the streets though.

1. Hundreds are being housed in hotels with 3 meals per day.

2. Free alcohol and drugs are being delivered and given to them in the hotels and on the streets.

3. The tenderloin homeless population has exploded. 300% increase.

4. Over 80% of SF homeless people have mental illness.

5. Child homelessness has grown a lot over the past 3 years.

It’s sad. Money and free drugs isn’t solving the problem.

It sounds terrible- giving free alcohol and drugs to homeless people, but there are sound public health reasons behind it. they want the homeless off the streets to help prevent the spread of COVID 19. Those with underlying problems or over 60 are given priority. They don't want someone with an alcohol problem to go into withdrawal, so limited quantities of booze are being provided to them, under the supervision of a physician. It's not like they get all the Jameson they can drink. And it's not being funded by taxpayer dollars- it's coming from some unnamed private sources.

Same with pot- you can get limited quantities to avoid withdrawal, under a doctor's supervision. You're also given the option of entering into treatment.

No other drugs are provided, other than methadone, to prevent opiate withdrawals.

It's still a small fraction of the homeless that are being housed through this. They wanted about 8,000 beds, last I heard they only had 700.

I have no issue with them giving marijuana honestly but there is no withdrawal from it. Alcohol withdrawal is really the only one that can kill a person (Xanax can too, opiates are a miserable withdrawal but generally not deadly). Totally understand giving it to them to cope with the situation just doesn’t seem like it needs to be labeled for withdrawal.

[jmajew]

When Florida becomes the new New York we'll see how well everyone thinks DeSantis is doing....

In NY in Jan/Feb/Mar you had:
- No one being told to wear masks, stay home or socially distance
- No testing
- A poor understanding of symptoms and disease spread
- Cold weather forcing people inside
- Multiple disease entry points
- The most densely packed city in the US that also has lots of public transportation

It was a perfect storm that can't be replicated.

This isn't some defense of Florida or any other state. Its just reality. Quite frankly, setting the bar there is always going to make states like Florida look good because they are always going to do better than that. Desantis could be laying in a pool of his own tequila induced vomit madly yelling "did we give up when the germans bombed pearl harbor!!" and he would produce better results than NYC.

This is probably the most important point that could be brought up. There are reasons why LA, Atlanta, Chicago, etc haven't been hit as hard as New York. Population density and use of public transportation is probably the biggest reason.

Large Corporations in NYC are now looking at more remote site locations in the suburbs of New York. This will limit the need of using public transportation and hopefully people could drive themselves to work. This should also in the long run help affordability in these big cities again.

https://www.americanbanker.com/articles/citi-eyes-offices-in-suburbs-to-ride-out-manhattans-recovery

[Dresden]

1. Hundreds are being housed in hotels with 3 meals per day.

2. Free alcohol and drugs are being delivered and given to them in the hotels and on the streets.

3. The tenderloin homeless population has exploded. 300% increase.

4. Over 80% of SF homeless people have mental illness.

5. Child homelessness has grown a lot over the past 3 years.

It’s sad. Money and free drugs isn’t solving the problem.

It sounds terrible- giving free alcohol and drugs to homeless people, but there are sound public health reasons behind it. they want the homeless off the streets to help prevent the spread of COVID 19. Those with underlying problems or over 60 are given priority. They don't want someone with an alcohol problem to go into withdrawal, so limited quantities of booze are being provided to them, under the supervision of a physician. It's not like they get all the Jameson they can drink. And it's not being funded by taxpayer dollars- it's coming from some unnamed private sources.

Same with pot- you can get limited quantities to avoid withdrawal, under a doctor's supervision. You're also given the option of entering into treatment.

No other drugs are provided, other than methadone, to prevent opiate withdrawals.

It's still a small fraction of the homeless that are being housed through this. They wanted about 8,000 beds, last I heard they only had 700.

I have no issue with them giving marijuana honestly but there is no withdrawal from it. Alcohol withdrawal is really the only one that can kill a person (Xanax can too, opiates are a miserable withdrawal but generally not deadly). Totally understand giving it to them to cope with the situation just doesn’t seem like it needs to be labeled for withdrawal.

I think there can be psychological withdrawal, but you are right- they probably are being provided the pot not for recreational use, but for medicinal purposes. And again, it's not taxpayer funded.

[TheStig]

Lockdown Delays Cost at Least 36,000 Lives, Data Show

"Even small differences in timing would have prevented the worst exponential growth, which by April had subsumed New York City, New Orleans and other major cities, researchers found.
If the United States had begun imposing social distancing measures one week earlier than it did in March, about 36,000 fewer people would have died in the coronavirus outbreak, according to new estimates from Columbia University disease modelers."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/20/us/coronavirus-distancing-deaths.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

I think Heros act will be the end of Trump and a lot of republicans. If they go to tax credits, liability protections and a small stimulus while the economy still spudders in the summer then it will really show them out of touch with the swing states. I think those MI, WI, PA, FL will be hurting financially and will be having their $600 a week unemployment removed and all the stimulus money gone. I thought for sure, they'd keep it rolling through the elections but I think this will really leave people high and dry in a time of need.

[dice]

If there's one silver lining to this pandemic:

Trump could suffer ‘historic defeat’ in November: Oxford Economics

"The key variable in the Oxford model is a sharp economic contraction in swing states that fuels dissatisfaction with Trump and his fellow Republicans, and bolsters Democratic turnout. In the model, Biden, the former vice president, wins all the usual Democratic states plus seven states Trump won in 2016: Iowa, Michigan, Missouri, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

The outcome would give Biden 65% of the popular vote, and Trump just 35%. Biden would win the electoral vote 328 – 210, the worst womping of an incumbent president since Jimmy Carter lost to Ronald Reagan in 1980. In 2016, Trump lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton, 48% to 46%, but swing state victories gave him a 306-232 electoral college win. The Oxford model predicted Hillary Clinton’s popular vote win, but not Trump’s electoral college margin. In 18 presidential elections dating to 1948, the Oxford model got the popular vote winner wrong only twice, in 1968 and 1976."

there is absolutely no scenario where biden wins 65% of the popular vote. reagan only got 59% in '84. we won't be seeing that kind of number anytime soon either

[PlayerUp]

If there's one silver lining to this pandemic:

Trump could suffer ‘historic defeat’ in November: Oxford Economics

"The key variable in the Oxford model is a sharp economic contraction in swing states that fuels dissatisfaction with Trump and his fellow Republicans, and bolsters Democratic turnout. In the model, Biden, the former vice president, wins all the usual Democratic states plus seven states Trump won in 2016: Iowa, Michigan, Missouri, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

The outcome would give Biden 65% of the popular vote, and Trump just 35%. Biden would win the electoral vote 328 – 210, the worst womping of an incumbent president since Jimmy Carter lost to Ronald Reagan in 1980. In 2016, Trump lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton, 48% to 46%, but swing state victories gave him a 306-232 electoral college win. The Oxford model predicted Hillary Clinton’s popular vote win, but not Trump’s electoral college margin. In 18 presidential elections dating to 1948, the Oxford model got the popular vote winner wrong only twice, in 1968 and 1976."

Click bait garbage. Stop listening to so called experts and polls. They have no clue as seen with the 2016 election.

Here are the facts:

- Every election is decided by the moderates
- A good % of moderates have not made a decision who they will vote for yes
- Everything could change before November

[moorhosj]

Click bait garbage. Stop listening to so called experts and polls. They have no clue as seen with the 2016 election.

Here are the facts:

- Every election is decided by the moderates
- A good % of moderates have not made a decision who they will vote for yes
- Everything could change before November

"Stop listening to so-called experts. Listen to me!"

[PlayerUp]

COVID-19 isn’t Trump’s fault.

Correct.

Our horrible, disjointed response to it is. We are seeing higher rates of death AND more economic devastation than almost all other advanced countries. He owns it.

Swap Trump for Obama, similar results, similar outcome. Maybe Obama would have done better, maybe he wouldn't have. America in general from the government to the people were not prepared for this. In the end, conservatives and the moderates are likely not going to fault Trump for any of this despite media and the liberal side pushing hard to point the finger at Trump and Trump alone for this mess.

[PlayerUp]

"Stop listening to so-called experts. Listen to me!"

What I said is 100% correct.