2020 Offseason Speculation, free agency, summer trades (keep draft prospect talk in draft thread)

[Wilber85]

FVV would be starting here lol

Laugh at me all you want but

Rubio healthy > FVV

[cberry78]

New poll?

[nevetsov]

We had what, 17 games left in the season?

I like the idea of getting all the teams together in hubs, but sending everyone to Orlando.. meh.

I'd prefer to send the West teams to Vegas, and the East teams to Disneyworld. Have each team play each other conference team once to make 14 games. Make up the difference to an even 80 games with a couple extra games here and there for the teams that are lagging behind.

[King4Day]

FVV would be starting here lol

Laugh at me all you want but

Rubio healthy > FVV

If we went after FVV, I think his scoring and shooting would be why. Putting that next to Booker would continue to open the floor up.
I think we'd then trade Rubio for a backup guard or PF.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

FVV would be starting here lol

Laugh at me all you want but

Rubio healthy > FVV

If we went after FVV, I think his scoring and shooting would be why. Putting that next to Booker would continue to open the floor up.
I think we'd then trade Rubio for a backup guard or PF.

Is there any metric, other than Devin's ASG selection, to indicate that Booker's a better player than Ricky? You're talking about using free agency to replace the best player on our team.

How can y'all hate on this FO so much when y'all are just as foolish?

[bwgood77]

FVV would be starting here lol

Laugh at me all you want but

Rubio healthy > FVV

If we went after FVV, I think his scoring and shooting would be why. Putting that next to Booker would continue to open the floor up.
I think we'd then trade Rubio for a backup guard or PF.

I am not sure Rubio is tradable at his contract. You could maybe look at Knicks but not expect value in return...probably just filler, hopefully that would expire after a year.

[bwgood77]

Laugh at me all you want but

Rubio healthy > FVV

If we went after FVV, I think his scoring and shooting would be why. Putting that next to Booker would continue to open the floor up.
I think we'd then trade Rubio for a backup guard or PF.

Is there any metric, other than Devin's ASG selection, to indicate that Booker's a better player than Ricky? You're talking about using free agency to replace the best player on our team.

How can y'all hate on this FO so much when y'all are just as foolish?

Well, Booker is starting for the foreseeable future and as long as he's here, so....

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Hmmmm........ Interesting!

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Hmmmm........ Interesting!

This is what I thought before BW commented to the contrary. Which, I'm pretty sure, means we (and most teams) won't have cap space this summer unless changes are introduced to the CBA.

FWIW, I think it's obvious, based on all precedent, that the players union would never, ever agree to surrender guaranteed salaries in order to free up cap space for teams to sign free agents, so this year's free agents can expect to get reamed. Expect a lot of one-year deals and strange salary maneuvers this offseason.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

If we went after FVV, I think his scoring and shooting would be why. Putting that next to Booker would continue to open the floor up.
I think we'd then trade Rubio for a backup guard or PF.

Is there any metric, other than Devin's ASG selection, to indicate that Booker's a better player than Ricky? You're talking about using free agency to replace the best player on our team.

How can y'all hate on this FO so much when y'all are just as foolish?

Well, Booker is starting for the foreseeable future and as long as he's here, so....

Oh, I agree, which is why I generally don't talk about it. My mind explodes, though, when I read of this particular idea: replacing Rubio (last year's extremely successful free agent signing and best player) with another free agent this summer. Usually, the justification is - like every move proposed on this board and everywhere else, it seems - that we must make the situation for Devin Booker. And I just can't help but want to get people to stop staring at names on a screen and focus on what happens on the basketball court. And what happens on the court is, Rubio, Mikal and Ayton are the guys who win games for us. So don't get rid of those guys. Add to them.

[WeekapaugGroove]

We could see both sides agree to spread the cap decline out over a few years vs the one year severe drop. Basically the same thing the league wanted to do with the cap spike a few years ago but the players turned down. This time there's some incentive for both sides to do it so maybe that actually gets done.

Until we know what's going to happen with this it's virtually impossible to say what the suns can or should do this summer.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[Frank Lee]

Rubio is not our problem

[bwgood77]

This is what I thought before BW commented to the contrary. Which, I'm pretty sure, means we (and most teams) won't have cap space this summer unless changes are introduced to the CBA.

FWIW, I think it's obvious, based on all precedent, that the players union would never, ever agree to surrender guaranteed salaries in order to free up cap space for teams to sign free agents, so this year's free agents can expect to get reamed. Expect a lot of one-year deals and strange salary maneuvers this offseason.

It's just odd because his contract language (or at least articles that mentioned it) would say his "estimated" contract would be x dollars, making it sound as if each year it is adjusted to 25% of the cap. I wasn't sure, but the CBA talks about how max contracts can only be a max % of cap depending on # of years a player plays. Of course in other sections it mentions max raises are "x" amount.

Too bad his max didn't start this next year instead of last year if only first year is based on that %.

[bwgood77]

Is there any metric, other than Devin's ASG selection, to indicate that Booker's a better player than Ricky? You're talking about using free agency to replace the best player on our team.

How can y'all hate on this FO so much when y'all are just as foolish?

Well, Booker is starting for the foreseeable future and as long as he's here, so....

Oh, I agree, which is why I generally don't talk about it. My mind explodes, though, when I read of this particular idea: replacing Rubio (last year's extremely successful free agent signing and best player) with another free agent this summer. Usually, the justification is - like every move proposed on this board and everywhere else, it seems - that we must make the situation for Devin Booker. And I just can't help but want to get people to stop staring at names on a screen and focus on what happens on the basketball court. And what happens on the court is, Rubio, Mikal and Ayton are the guys who win games for us. So don't get rid of those guys. Add to them.

We unlikely move Rubio either. He really has good chemistry with everyone and does all the little things, plus I can't think of any team with PG needs wanting to spend that much of the cap on him in trade. Orlando and NY need shooting...NY wants to add stars, or at least reserve cap space for them. Not many other teams need PGs. We can draft one this summer or next and let him watch Rubio for a year or two and get enough play to develop on the floor as well.

[bwgood77]

We could see both sides agree to spread the cap decline out over a few years vs the one year severe drop. Basically the same thing the league wanted to do with the cap spike a few years ago but the players turned down. This time there's some incentive for both sides to do it so maybe that actually gets done.

Until we know what's going to happen with this it's virtually impossible to say what the suns can or should do this summer.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

True, but next year and the year after, there will likely be a huge spike again, and with a weak FA class this year, players would probably want to take advantage of a huge spike next summer. If we finish the season though, there may not be that big of drop with the tv revenue. Fans may attend them too. With little else to watch on tv between mid June and mid September, they may have better tv ratings, with no competition during like June 15th to September 15th.

[WeekapaugGroove]

We could see both sides agree to spread the cap decline out over a few years vs the one year severe drop. Basically the same thing the league wanted to do with the cap spike a few years ago but the players turned down. This time there's some incentive for both sides to do it so maybe that actually gets done.

Until we know what's going to happen with this it's virtually impossible to say what the suns can or should do this summer.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

True, but next year and the year after, there will likely be a huge spike again, and with a weak FA class this year, players would probably want to take advantage of a huge spike next summer. If we finish the season though, there may not be that big of drop with the tv revenue. Fans may attend them too. With little else to watch on tv between mid June and mid September, they may have better tv ratings, with no competition during like June 15th to September 15th.

There a few variables in play. Obviously the pandemic and rev loss this year but also potentially some loss next season too if they have to shorten it or limit fans. China also factors in and it looks like they could lose some revenue there. Now on the positive revenue side gambling could drive some new revenue streams and it wouldn't shock me if this spurred them to consider expansion to generate some expansion fee cash flow for the owners.

If they feel like 2-3 years from now we'll see a decent size increase in revenue from gambling they should try to spread this loss out so we don't see massive fall this off-season completely screwing a class of FA and extension eligible guys. One interesting thing is Ben Simmons is a guy who could get **** because his max extension he signed last summer kicks in next year and he'd lose a good chunk by getting that first year locked in at a lower number. He's a key client for klutch and they obviously have some pull with the league.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[King4Day]

Is there any metric, other than Devin's ASG selection, to indicate that Booker's a better player than Ricky? You're talking about using free agency to replace the best player on our team.

How can y'all hate on this FO so much when y'all are just as foolish?

Well, Booker is starting for the foreseeable future and as long as he's here, so....

Oh, I agree, which is why I generally don't talk about it. My mind explodes, though, when I read of this particular idea: replacing Rubio (last year's extremely successful free agent signing and best player) with another free agent this summer. Usually, the justification is - like every move proposed on this board and everywhere else, it seems - that we must make the situation for Devin Booker. And I just can't help but want to get people to stop staring at names on a screen and focus on what happens on the basketball court. And what happens on the court is, Rubio, Mikal and Ayton are the guys who win games for us. So don't get rid of those guys. Add to them.

I know we play our best when Rubio is on the court, but the team still sucks.
Teams let him shoot whenever he has it. We need another scorer to play alongside Booker. If we leave the team as is, unless Mikal turns into an offensive star, then we're stuck where we are.
FVV isn't signing with a team to come off the bench.
Question becomes, who do we go after that can improve our scoring without impeding our youth development?

A backup scorer can help, but we need a Lou Williams type. Someone who teams will have to worry about when he comes in.

[PharmD]

Well, Booker is starting for the foreseeable future and as long as he's here, so....

Oh, I agree, which is why I generally don't talk about it. My mind explodes, though, when I read of this particular idea: replacing Rubio (last year's extremely successful free agent signing and best player) with another free agent this summer. Usually, the justification is - like every move proposed on this board and everywhere else, it seems - that we must make the situation for Devin Booker. And I just can't help but want to get people to stop staring at names on a screen and focus on what happens on the basketball court. And what happens on the court is, Rubio, Mikal and Ayton are the guys who win games for us. So don't get rid of those guys. Add to them.

I know we play our best when Rubio is on the court, but the team still sucks.
Teams let him shoot whenever he has it. We need another scorer to play alongside Booker. If we leave the team as is, unless Mikal turns into an offensive star, then we're stuck where we are.
FVV isn't signing with a team to come off the bench.
Question becomes, who do we go after that can improve our scoring without impeding our youth development?

A backup scorer can help, but we need a Lou Williams type. Someone who teams will have to worry about when he comes in.

The Suns have a +3.1 net rating with Rubio on the court, which would be good enough for 5th place in the west. With Rubio off the court the net rating is -6.8, which would be better than only the Warriors.

[sunskerr]

Rubio has had a fine year. I think it's probably the best year of his career actually. If we can upgrade from him it would have to be based on a production/dollars ratio. Basically if Rubio's potential replacement would be better than him in terms of production divided by salary then you can look to move on. If not, then there's no real point. I happen to think Fred Van Vleet is a slightly better player than Rubio (bigger threat from downtown, and a very good defender this year) but I think FVV would be significantly more expensive than Rubio's deal and FVV isn't an all star player, so it's hard to see us upgrading in that fashion.

I think it's painfully obvious though that we need another efficient shot creator next to Devin Booker. I think people single out Rubio (and fair enough they do) because he plays at PG which is the position nowadays where a lot of teams have a scoring threat and the ball spends a lot of time in his hands. So naturally if you have the ball in your hands a lot it makes sense you should be a scoring threat. But maybe we could get one at the forward position. That would be kind of tough but looking around the league couple of successful teams have something like that going on.

Clippers: PG & Kawhi are the primary options, Pat Bev plays defense
Thunder: CP3 is a pass first PG, and has ceded scoring duties more to SGA and Gallinari
New Orleans: Lonzo is pass first, with Jrue and Brandon Ingram doing most of the scoring. Zion doesn't create his own shot.
Lakers: well, ok LeBron is their PG so I might be stretching this, but they have smaller guys to defend opposing PGs
Indiana: Brogdon is the facilitator, Oladipo is the primary option, and TJ Warren is another scoring option they have

It appears that it actually isn't the end of the world to have your facilitator not being the primary scoring threat. This holds so long as you have scoring threats elsewhere on the roster. Right now we only really have Devin Booker. Kelly might be able to take that next step hopefully. But it also doesn't hurt to look for options in free agency or in a trade.

As a side note after thinking about this more, I used to think it was Rubio's lack of scoring that was the issue with him as a player. But I sort of realized after writing this that his main problem is 3 point shooting volume. Facilitating, pass first point guards aren't necessarily out of date- they just need to be able to knock down more 3s to keep the defense honest and stretched out. If we're looking at the above teams, Brogdon is a pass first guy but he can shoot more 3s than Rubio, and so can CP3. Heck even Pat Bev as a defense-only player manages to shoot 1.6 per game on 38%. I don't think anybody here wants to really touch Lonzo with a 10 foot pole anymore besides his most ardent supporters but even he gets 2.5 per game somehow with his broken form. But that little thing (3 point volume) can translate into such a large difference when it comes to how the offense functions.

[nevetsov]

Does anyone know if we have the ability to sign and trade Dario this off season? And if so, with the possible impact to the cap, what kind of return we could ballpark (salary wise)?

I ask because someone on the Trade board suggested a Saric for Delon Wright swap ($9m x2) and that piqued my interest.

He's a 6'5 PG who can defend, facilitate and shoot the 3. Could play with either Book or Rubio. He's not a P'N'R type PG so he apparently isn't an ideal fit in Dallas, but would probably make do here.