2020 NBA Draft II

clyde21 · Post #841 » by **clyde21** » Thu May 21, 2020 5:22 pm

Avdija is not more athletic than Bolmaro, not sure where that's coming from, i'd say it's a push if anything

also yea Avdija is bigger, but Avdija is a 3/4, Bolmaro is a 2/3, so that's kind of a non point.

getrichordie · Post #842 » by **getrichordie** » Thu May 21, 2020 5:25 pm

Catchall wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Best path would be going to a team that has some patience and a successful track record in developing players. He has a lot of potential. Some G-league is likely involved.

Just going through my big board again and I feel like I have him way too high.

I mean, I don't think he is a better prospect than Pokusevski. Both players have potential, but I'd be willing to bet that Poku can replicate Williams' defensive impact quite easily and I think he's the more natural scorer.

My gut feeling is telling me to slot him a little bit above Saddiq Bey on my big board, who I am lower on than most.

I think realistically Williams is going to get drafted in the 16 - 20 range, maybe more like 18 - 22. If he had workouts to prove that he can knock down shots or create off the dribble, he could rise, but I'm not sure he's going to get that chance. I think he gets drafted shortly after Nesmith (unless Nesmith has a medical red flag). I think Williams is basically the Chuma Okeke of this draft for a team that believes in him.

Pokusevski is an interesting case because he's so young and so physically underdeveloped. He could be stashed for another year in Europe, or would otherwise need a couple years before he's a regular contributor. That could drop him a few spots in the draft to a team that's more patient and thinking longer term. It reminds me of when the Jazz drafted Andrei Kirilenko in 1999 and brought him over a year later.

Yeah, not factoring in the stash stuff when ranking prospects on my big board. Think that's useless. Think it's more useful for mocks. Yeah, I think the 18-22 range is a good range for him to go in. It would just be hard for me to draft a guy like Williams over a guy like Flynn who is a known commodity. I've seen a lot of 6'7-6'8 "potential" guys come and go in the league...

TB · Post #843 » by TB » Thu May 21, 2020 5:27 pm

Every time I move Williams higher on my list, I have nightmares of how high I was on Chris Singleton.

And yes, I'm stubborn and still think Singleton can play in the NBA. Been a great Euro player.

getrichordie · Post #844 » by **getrichordie** » Thu May 21, 2020 5:32 pm

This pass by Haliburton @ 7:33 :clap:

Spoiler:

getrichordie · Post #845 » by **getrichordie** » Thu May 21, 2020 8:51 pm

I'm slotting Saben Lee just ahead of Devon Dotson on my big board for now. Can see him being a FRP.

Fun fact, out of all guys who played 10 games vs. top 50 competition, Lee was 6th in OBPM. Athleticism translates, folks. A notch below guys like Howard and Otoru and a notch above Mays and Bane, w/ Garza leading the way.

Read on Twitter

Also, here is a compilation of Saben Lee dunks:

Spoiler:

P.S. **** hate the new "shared tweet" look. Hope they go back to the previous iteration.

getrichordie · Post #846 » by **getrichordie** » Fri May 22, 2020 1:11 am

Read on Twitter

Tend to agree with this.

Catchall · Post #847 » by **Catchall** » Fri May 22, 2020 1:55 am

getrichordie wrote:

Read on Twitter

Tend to agree with this.

I don't think the goal has ever been for teams to get smaller, per se. I think the goal has been to have 4 or 5 players on the floor who all have dribble/pass/shoot skills to space the floor and move the ball on offense, while having switchability on defense.

TB · Post #848 » by TB » Fri May 22, 2020 6:37 am

The examples he used dont really prove his point...

Raptors played mostly Siakam at 4 and Gasol/Ibaka at 5... i would say thats just 3 really good players more-so than a "big lineup".

Lakers and Bucks i'm guessing are the two best teams he's referencing... well ya, if you have Giannis or Brow at PF you are probably going to succeed as a "big lineup" team.

The other point says 2 out of 5 best teams.. well thats not saying anything.

I do get where he's coming from though. But if you just throw out big players for the sake of playing bigger, they are going to get beat by more skilled/athletic smaller players.

Being big is a huge advantage... but you can't just be a stiff out on the court.

getrichordie · Post #849 » by **getrichordie** » Fri May 22, 2020 4:23 pm

Where does everyone have Reggie Perry on their big board? He just turned 20.

6'10 // 250 lbs // ~7'0 w/s

Very mobile and fluid athlete. He passes the eye test for me. Has flashed a lot of mid-range game and looks like he can bang down low despite not having ideal arms for a big. I think he has the potential to be a 4 on O. I think he has potential to serviceably defend 3-5 at the next level. Best value probably comes in the form of a small ball 5.

~44% of his shots came at the rim and he hit exactly 70% of them (50% assisted). Very solid.

Better FTr than Okongwu. Best FT shooting out of all bigs in this draft not named Isaiah Stewart.

29% USG. AST% = 16.

Only big in draft with >25% usage and >15% assist rate.

Low BLK% (4.1) but D-Rtg (92.8) is a good sign.

Good on d-boards for size. DR% = 25.

King Ken · Post #850 » by **King Ken** » Fri May 22, 2020 4:28 pm

getrichordie wrote:

Read on Twitter

Tend to agree with this.

I disagree. Toronto bigs all had great fundamentals and high BBIQ. I agree with the devaluing size era for players who can dribble, pass, and shoot. Since there is hardly any in this class. The size I want is big wings with bulk. Centers are too hit and miss and they take time to adjust to the strength of the NBA at that position not to mention the BBIQ needed is extreme.

Catchall · Post #851 » by **Catchall** » Fri May 22, 2020 4:31 pm

getrichordie wrote:Where does everyone have Reggie Perry on their big board? He just turned 20.

6'10 // 250 lbs // ~7'0 w/s

Very mobile and fluid athlete. He passes the eye test for me. Has flashed a lot of mid-range game and looks like he can bang down low despite not having ideal arms for a big. I think he has the potential to be a 4 on O. I think he has potential to serviceably defend 3-5 at the next level. Best value probably comes in the form of a small ball 5.

~44% of his shots came at the rim and he hit exactly 70% of them (50% assisted). Very solid.

Better FTr than Okongwu. Best FT shooting out of all bigs in this draft not named Isaiah Stewart.

29% USG. AST% = 16.

Only big in draft with >25% usage and >15% assist rate.

Low BLK% (4.1) but D-Rtg (92.8) is a good sign.

Good on d-boards for size. DR% = 25.

He's really fluid for a player his size. He probably has to play the 5 though, unless he can really keep up on the perimeter.

getrichordie · Post #852 » by **getrichordie** » Fri May 22, 2020 4:50 pm

Catchall wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Where does everyone have Reggie Perry on their big board? He just turned 20.

6'10 // 250 lbs // ~7'0 w/s

Very mobile and fluid athlete. He passes the eye test for me. Has flashed a lot of mid-range game and looks like he can bang down low despite not having ideal arms for a big. I think he has the potential to be a 4 on O. I think he has potential to serviceably defend 3-5 at the next level. Best value probably comes in the form of a small ball 5.

~44% of his shots came at the rim and he hit exactly 70% of them (50% assisted). Very solid.

Better FTr than Okongwu. Best FT shooting out of all bigs in this draft not named Isaiah Stewart.

29% USG. AST% = 16.

Only big in draft with >25% usage and >15% assist rate.

Low BLK% (4.1) but D-Rtg (92.8) is a good sign.

Good on d-boards for size. DR% = 25.

He's really fluid for a player his size. He probably has to play the 5 though, unless he can really keep up on the perimeter.

Yeah, in which case, that probably tanks his value as his prospects for a stretch 5 aren't great and he's not super big down low. He has the requisite athleticism needed to play the 4 in the NBA, the question is just his stretch-ability. Can he knock down corner 3s at a high clip? If not, probably best to put him next to a stretch 5.

Catchall · Post #853 » by **Catchall** » Fri May 22, 2020 4:56 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Catchall wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Where does everyone have Reggie Perry on their big board? He just turned 20.

6'10 // 250 lbs // ~7'0 w/s

Very mobile and fluid athlete. He passes the eye test for me. Has flashed a lot of mid-range game and looks like he can bang down low despite not having ideal arms for a big. I think he has the potential to be a 4 on O. I think he has potential to serviceably defend 3-5 at the next level. Best value probably comes in the form of a small ball 5.

~44% of his shots came at the rim and he hit exactly 70% of them (50% assisted). Very solid.

Better FTr than Okongwu. Best FT shooting out of all bigs in this draft not named Isaiah Stewart.

29% USG. AST% = 16.

Only big in draft with >25% usage and >15% assist rate.

Low BLK% (4.1) but D-Rtg (92.8) is a good sign.

Good on d-boards for size. DR% = 25.

He's really fluid for a player his size. He probably has to play the 5 though, unless he can really keep up on the perimeter.

Yeah, in which case, that probably tanks his value as his prospects for a stretch 5 aren't great and he's not super big down low. He has the requisite athleticism needed to play the 4 in the NBA, the question is just his stretch-ability. Can he knock down corner 3s at a high clip? If not, probably best to put him next to a stretch 5.

He would have been a sure-fire 1st-round pick in the 90s as a PF.

clyde21 · Post #854 » by **clyde21** » Fri May 22, 2020 5:08 pm

getrichordie wrote:

Read on Twitter

Tend to agree with this.

it was never about size, no one is gonna say no to guys like Nikola Jokic and Joel Embiid, it's about skill set...no one is saying 'i only want smaller players'...people are saying they want more versatile, skillful players, they just usually happen to be smaller

and his examples are not really good ones, yea one team has 2 of the top 5 players in the league (LeBron/Davis) and the other played Siakam at C a good portion of the time

getrichordie · Post #855 » by **getrichordie** » Fri May 22, 2020 6:41 pm

Top players in the league tend to be bigger on average. It’s about finding that happy medium between size and skill. You can have a ton of skill but not enough size and your impact has a relatively low ceiling (Trae Young), whereas a lot of size and a little skill can have a lot of impact (i.e. Mitchell Robinson).

getrichordie · Post #856 » by **getrichordie** » Fri May 22, 2020 6:43 pm

Just look at Patrick Williams and Pokusevski. Young players with good size but still relatively raw yet being mocked pretty high in the FRP...

HeadtopChunes · Post #857 » by **HeadtopChunes** » Fri May 22, 2020 7:32 pm

clyde21 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:

Read on Twitter

Tend to agree with this.

it was never about size, no one is gonna say no to guys like Nikola Jokic and Joel Embiid, it's about skill set...no one is saying 'i only want smaller players'...people are saying they want more versatile, skillful players, they just usually happen to be smaller

and his examples are not really good ones, yea one team has 2 of the top 5 players in the league (LeBron/Davis) and the other played Siakam at C a good portion of the time

That last part isn't true, Raptors don't like to go with Siakam at Center that much. (they do it more with Anunoby but only in a pinch)
Last year's playoff run Raptors had a total of 3 minutes with Sikam and No Marc/Ibaka and 37 minutes playing all 3 of them at the same time. This year Raptors ended up doing it more but it was because they had to due to injures Ibaka/Gasol missed significant time (at one point concurrently)

I do agree with your initial statement though, its more about skillsets than size. But I think his point is especially on draft twitter where people can underestimate size as an asset, such as the people on there who have Wiseman in the 20s on their board or whatever are for sure undervaluing the upside he has just because of size and athleticism.

getrichordie · Post #858 » by **getrichordie** » Fri May 22, 2020 9:02 pm

I've been tinkering more and more with the 40-60 range of my board. Still messing around with the 50-60 range, but getting close to a finished product. Please let me know where you disagree with me and why.

Spoiler:

getrichordie · Post #859 » by **getrichordie** » Fri May 22, 2020 10:30 pm

For those that are looking at Okoro as a 3, Hollinger stated he believes Okoro can be a 2, and I agree. I've been saying this, but have had a little push back so it was refreshing to hear Hollinger talk about Okoro as a prospective 2.

The-Power · Post #860 » by **The-Power** » Fri May 22, 2020 11:09 pm

getrichordie wrote:For those that are looking at Okoro as a 3, Hollinger stated he believes Okoro can be a 2, and I agree. I've been saying this, but have had a little push back so it was refreshing to hear Hollinger talk about Okoro as a prospective 2.

May I ask: why would it even matter?