2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

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Doctor MJ
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#141 » by Doctor MJ » Thu May 21, 2020 9:24 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Part of that is Curry's unique skillset, but mostly that's most teams can't afford to have their best player off the ball that much. It just wouldn't make sense to play that way.

I'm much more encouraged by what the Heat did with Duncan Robinson both in terms of how they used him on the court but also the steps they took trying to get him ready to do that. I think that's far more replicable(sp) than anything like Steph and it essentially takes the old Kyle Korver in Atlanta impact and pushes it further.

I mean even other elite shooters like Dirk or Durant or Kawhi are just so much more valuable to their teams on-ball. I think Curry's biggest influence is going to be the changing of geometry by pushing his range out so far beyond the line. We now see Dame and others following suit and their willingness and ability to hit these shots just opens so much up. Heck even KP who wasn't very consistent this year played a notable role in Dallas' league-leading offense because of how far out he took opposing bigs--especially after Powell went down and he played exclusively as a center.


This is true. I suppose the more important point in my book is that every team should be looking to get some guy that they can make use of in an off-ball role like this.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#142 » by freethedevil » Fri May 22, 2020 4:53 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:


Not directly related but, do you have the updated list for --career-- poy shares?


I've switched machines and can't find the spreadsheet I made.

If someone want's to re-create, this archived version of semi-sentient's old site will give the data from the '50s to '11:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120703030935/http://rpoy.dolem.com/

Grabbing '12 through '19 will take some leg work, but you can find through the stickied links on this board.

So, I'd add the shares there with the more recent poy threads? that seems doable.

I might do it myself if I get the time. :D
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#143 » by Doctor MJ » Fri May 22, 2020 5:06 am

freethedevil wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
Not directly related but, do you have the updated list for --career-- poy shares?


I've switched machines and can't find the spreadsheet I made.

If someone want's to re-create, this archived version of semi-sentient's old site will give the data from the '50s to '11:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120703030935/http://rpoy.dolem.com/

Grabbing '12 through '19 will take some leg work, but you can find through the stickied links on this board.

So, I'd add the shares there with the more recent poy threads? that seems doable.

I might do it myself if I get the time. :D


Cool, and actually I was just looking and found some stuff.

Here's one version of the spreadsheet updated through '11:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11mbgpas2t3L0iJE8SDIZ1YAVxflKOfu598gOMIgWxmM/edit?usp=sharing

Here's the Award Winner spreadsheet which includes other awards since '14-15. Starting to get interesting to see how that develops.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11mbgpas2t3L0iJE8SDIZ1YAVxflKOfu598gOMIgWxmM/edit?usp=sharing
homecourtloss wrote:Only good thing about quarantine Is that Dr. MJ is posting again. :lol:


Tryin' to avoid the strident debates. I'd rather just help others understand.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#144 » by Bidofo » Fri May 22, 2020 10:50 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Cool, and actually I was just looking and found some stuff.

Here's one version of the spreadsheet updated through '11:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11mbgpas2t3L0iJE8SDIZ1YAVxflKOfu598gOMIgWxmM/edit?usp=sharing

Here's the Award Winner spreadsheet which includes other awards since '14-15. Starting to get interesting to see how that develops.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11mbgpas2t3L0iJE8SDIZ1YAVxflKOfu598gOMIgWxmM/edit?usp=sharing

I'm afraid it's the same link Doc :D
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#145 » by Doctor MJ » Sat May 23, 2020 2:32 am

Bidofo wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Cool, and actually I was just looking and found some stuff.

Here's one version of the spreadsheet updated through '11:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11mbgpas2t3L0iJE8SDIZ1YAVxflKOfu598gOMIgWxmM/edit?usp=sharing

Here's the Award Winner spreadsheet which includes other awards since '14-15. Starting to get interesting to see how that develops.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11mbgpas2t3L0iJE8SDIZ1YAVxflKOfu598gOMIgWxmM/edit?usp=sharing

I'm afraid it's the same link Doc :D


Gah! Thanks Bidofo.

Actual Award Winner link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zpJktAaIF8pvMap-LgdfPzZvOcprhEZUNSqAg_Sy-dQ/edit#gid=0
homecourtloss wrote:Only good thing about quarantine Is that Dr. MJ is posting again. :lol:


Tryin' to avoid the strident debates. I'd rather just help others understand.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#146 » by Doctor MJ » Sat May 23, 2020 2:57 am

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MBPjmagr91KOtL3f0bz3pqtrgU52si26Fuv0CJZlzLA/edit#gid=0

Voting from last year.

I'll keep looking for more stuff like this.

Also, looking at '15-16, I literally cannot find my vote. Weird.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#147 » by Doctor MJ » Sat May 23, 2020 7:30 pm

homecourtloss wrote:Only good thing about quarantine Is that Dr. MJ is posting again. :lol:


Tryin' to avoid the strident debates. I'd rather just help others understand.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#148 » by HeartBreakKid » Fri Aug 7, 2020 5:18 pm

This is gonna be a fun year for this project. Given the nature of the league, it might lead to some unorthodox voting.

Can def see who ever wins the championship getting a big asterisk.
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#149 » by therealbig3 » Sat Aug 8, 2020 10:23 am

Man, I love Curry, people seem to forget that I was leading the Curry bandwagon during his 2016 season...but it is what it is, he consistently has issues in the playoffs to the point where he's clearly not the offensive GOAT. LeBron has clearly outperformed him, and I'm much more inclined to give certain older players that we don't have detailed +/- data on the benefit of the doubt over him (Jordan, Magic, Bird, Oscar). And yes, Nash as well, who we do have +/- data for and has done better as an offensive force in the playoffs.

The people that act like it's a sin to view Curry as anything less than the offensive GOAT and nobody else comes close have got to be the most infuriating people to debate with here. Worse than Kobe fans honestly. Because any examination of how his offense falls off in the playoffs just gets reduced to his stat line, and the fact that the Warriors have won a bunch of games and 3 titles with him as the best player. And they totally dismiss just how good Green and Klay are, never mind Kevin Durant.

EDIT: didn't really know where else to post this, I realize this might not be the most relevant place, just had to get my thoughts out there though
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Re: 2019-2020 Player of the Year Discussion Thread 

Post#150 » by KTM_2813 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:26 pm

therealbig3 wrote:Man, I love Curry, people seem to forget that I was leading the Curry bandwagon during his 2016 season...but it is what it is, he consistently has issues in the playoffs to the point where he's clearly not the offensive GOAT. LeBron has clearly outperformed him, and I'm much more inclined to give certain older players that we don't have detailed +/- data on the benefit of the doubt over him (Jordan, Magic, Bird, Oscar). And yes, Nash as well, who we do have +/- data for and has done better as an offensive force in the playoffs.

The people that act like it's a sin to view Curry as anything less than the offensive GOAT and nobody else comes close have got to be the most infuriating people to debate with here. Worse than Kobe fans honestly. Because any examination of how his offense falls off in the playoffs just gets reduced to his stat line, and the fact that the Warriors have won a bunch of games and 3 titles with him as the best player. And they totally dismiss just how good Green and Klay are, never mind Kevin Durant.

EDIT: didn't really know where else to post this, I realize this might not be the most relevant place, just had to get my thoughts out there though


What's interesting is that I'm very high on Curry, but often feel as though I am low on him after reading some of the Curry threads. For example, I think that his 2016 regular season is possibly the greatest offensive regular season of all-time, he is possibly the best off-ball player in history, and he was the Warriors' most valuable player during the Durant era. A lot of people would call my crazy for those opinions (because they'd think I was being too generous). However, I often find myself arguing against Curry somehow. :lol:

Ultimately, I think that the main point of disagreement I have with people is that I think it's important for him to produce in the box score. He always impacts games with his gravity, but he still needs to produce with scoring and shot making, which has been a bit of an issue in the playoffs, IMO.

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