Trade Talk (Part Four)

[Jedzz]

Our offense really clicked with Johnson in the lineup despite him not being a good shooter. Use Gordon the same way.

We have barely seen Johnson play with KAT. I’m not willing to make him the model.

This is one reason I would like to see him stay and playing with Kat for a good duration so we find out if that works or not. As it was without Kat playing, Johnson worked well here and shot very well here. So something about playing here seemed to help his shooting, be it spacing he was seeing based on draw of others or something. Maybe it was something as simple as just his personal confidence alone being higher for him because he felt more like a leader or more able to lead just from age or something about playing on this team that's been losing for so long.

I don't really know what everything is going to look like once KAT really returns fulltime and if he still feels like everything must be designed to funnel through him again. How will that work for all these news players? Maybe if the season restarts we'll get to find out.

[Jedzz]

That's fair argument. I thought that ATL might aim Edwards as their future SG, but you know better. I don't know much about Georgia as FA destination. So I might be mistaken but ATL don't have much choice but simply overpay Beasley by big margin.

There's no guarantee the Hawks get Edwards, if they do it changes the need for going after Beasley.
How much is Minny willing to pay Beasley?

From all appearances here, MIN is willing to match most Beasley offers. He averaged like 20 a game and could hit three’s.

To me though, this could be a mistake. While it’s hard to know where his final salary would land (great audition in few games versus CoronaCap deflation), if Towns and Russell are the starters, Beasley’s average defense may not be enough. He would be terrific as a sixth man, but what should you pay for that?

Part of the reason MIN sunk a late 1st and KDB into him was to get his (and Juancho’s) Bird rights, since they are over the cap, and only have the MLE to add to the team. Still, if they could get out close to what they paid, I’d say that was fair. If Beasley would excel if he got back to Atlanta, I’d offer a S&T for both for the GSW 2nd. It might be a way to make Beasley happy, repay MIN for the Bird rights, and keep both teams from running up the contract.

Did you just propose S&T of Beasley to Atlanta for a GSW 2nd? Or even Beasley and Juancho both for a S&T for the GSW 2nd? Did I read that wrong or miss something?

[Killboard]

Bridges would be a great target as well. I just don't see Phoenix trading him any time soon, even for a top pick.

I'd be happy if we draft Saddiq Bey or Devin Vassell to fill that 3&D role.

I would be okay with Vassell or Okoro, but would a reach at 3 or 4 IMO. At 6th or 7th makes a lot more sense. Im not high on Saddiq defense though.

[minimus]

I would not trade our 2nd round pick. It wont add much trade value in negotiations, however #33 might be a good spot for us to get guys who will fall out of first round and can be either stashed in Europe or signed for 1+3 contracts.

Some players who might be available:
* - Leonardo Bolmaro (creative SG, poor man Ginobilli)
* - Nico Mannion (creative PG)
* - Paul Reed (defensive minded C/PF)
* - Desmond Bane (poor man Malcolm Brogdon)
* - Daniel Oturu (stretch 5 potential, from MIN)
* - Tyler Bey (poor man Shawn Marion)

[shrink]

Our offense really clicked with Johnson in the lineup despite him not being a good shooter. Use Gordon the same way.

We have barely seen Johnson play with KAT. I’m not willing to make him the model.

Well in my mind they wouldn't make that trade for Johnson if they didn't feel like he was in some way the model of what they want next to KAT.

They traded Dieng, who they refused to play alongside KAT. They paid nothing - arguably a bad contract - for Johnson, so I think anything useful was the goal, not that he was some model for the PF position.

[karch34]

I would not trade our 2nd round pick. It wont add much trade value in negotiations, however #33 might be a good spot for us to get guys who will fall out of first round and can be either stashed in Europe or signed for 1+3 contracts.

Agree that its valuable. However a team that might be thinking they are a contender that flexibility might have value and even more so if they are looking to be clear money for 2021 with JJ expiring included. With cap changing could be a better piece for some deals than 16 and guaranteed $ that comes with it. Though I think Rosas is looking at big money starters with cheap 6-12 options so don't think he's as dismissive of 2nds as previous regimes.

[Mattya]

We have barely seen Johnson play with KAT. I’m not willing to make him the model.

Well in my mind they wouldn't make that trade for Johnson if they didn't feel like he was in some way the model of what they want next to KAT.

They traded Dieng, who they refused to play alongside KAT. They paid nothing - arguably a bad contract - for Johnson, so I think anything useful was the goal, not that he was some model for the PF position.

Bad contract for bad contract, but I would guess Dieng had more value at the deadline than Johnson. Why would they downgrade an asset?

[minimus]

We have barely seen Johnson play with KAT. I’m not willing to make him the model.

Well in my mind they wouldn't make that trade for Johnson if they didn't feel like he was in some way the model of what they want next to KAT.

They traded Dieng, who they refused to play alongside KAT. They paid nothing - arguably a bad contract - for Johnson, so I think anything useful was the goal, not that he was some model for the PF position.

Quick reminder: Rosas could get a mobile C in Capella if he wanted.

[shrink]

Well in my mind they wouldn't make that trade for Johnson if they didn't feel like he was in some way the model of what they want next to KAT.

They traded Dieng, who they refused to play alongside KAT. They paid nothing - arguably a bad contract - for Johnson, so I think anything useful was the goal, not that he was some model for the PF position.

Bad contract for bad contract, but I would guess Dieng had more value at the deadline than Johnson. Why would they downgrade an asset?

I agree they were both bad contracts, and I think Dieng gives better production for his money when he gets minutes. However, there are really no buyers for Dieng, and we weren’t going to give him the minutes once KAT came back. MIN wasn’t investing anything to get Johnson - heck, they were dumping a bad contract, This was simply a swap of two overpaid players that had a better chance of getting minutes on the other team. I don’t think it is any indication of a direction - it was just an opportunity to get a more useful player. We’ll see.

[shrink]

Quick reminder: Rosas could get a mobile C in Capella if he wanted.

I think “mobile” is the word we often overlook.

We talk about wanting to pair him with a big that can shoot three’s and defend, but Rosas wouldn’t play Dieng next to him, and traded away the young Saric who fit the time line.

The brain trust has stuck with their “one big - three wings - one ball handler” company line all season, and I was a bit shocked that they didn’t play Towns and Dieng next to each other against big line ups. Dieng has had good success alongside Towns, and he was hitting three’s as well. I think the problem is that they want a mobile defending PF who can run.

[minimus]

Quick reminder: Rosas could get a mobile C in Capella if he wanted.

I think “mobile” is the word we often overlook.

We talk about wanting to pair him with a big that can shoot three’s and defend, but Rosas wouldn’t play Dieng next to him, and traded away the young Saric who fit the time line.

The brain trust has stuck with their “one big - three wings - one ball handler” company line all season, and I was a bit shocked that they didn’t play Towns and Dieng next to each other against big line ups. Dieng has had good success alongside Towns, and he was hitting three’s as well. I think the problem is that they want a mobile defending PF who can run.

Saric was never an answer. Slow, unathletic big with inconsistent shot (and I am a big fan of him) who was not happy with his role. He does not shine in PHO either.

Dieng with KAT cannot be played for same reasons you wrote before: opponent would play drop scheme and completely destroy our slashing game.

I think wanting a mobile defending PF who can run is not a problem, it is mandatory because of our roster construction.

[KGdaBom]

I would not trade our 2nd round pick. It wont add much trade value in negotiations, however #33 might be a good spot for us to get guys who will fall out of first round and can be either stashed in Europe or signed for 1+3 contracts.

Some players who might be available:
* - Leonardo Bolmaro (creative SG, poor man Ginobilli)
* - Nico Mannion (creative PG)
* - Paul Reed (defensive minded C/PF)
* - Desmond Bane (poor man Malcolm Brogdon)
* - Daniel Oturu (stretch 5 potential, from MIN)
* - Tyler Bey (poor man Shawn Marion)

I hate Nico Mannion. Saw him play once and that was one time too many.

[Klomp]

Our offense really clicked with Johnson in the lineup despite him not being a good shooter. Use Gordon the same way.

We have barely seen Johnson play with KAT. I’m not willing to make him the model.

Well in my mind they wouldn't make that trade for Johnson if they didn't feel like he was in some way the model of what they want next to KAT. I don't know who you see out there that is 1. attainable at a reasonable cost and 2. a better fit with KAT.

I think an important thing to remember is that Rosas is still building out this roster. There will be moves made. Covington was a model of what they want next to Towns too, but it still didn't stop them from making the move they had to make in order to better the roster.

Johnson is more of a model of what they want next to Towns than Dieng was, but that doesn't make him the model necessarily.

BTW, we sure we want this guy?

Watch on YouTube

[minimus]

We get #1 pick. We draft Edwards.

Trade JJ, Edwards, Nowell for Aaron Gordon, ORL FRP (#15)

Why for ORL? They get two talented wings on cheap contracts to balance their roster.
Why for MIN? Get starting PF and 3&D prospect.

Trade BRO pick (#16), MIN SRP #33, Spellman, Evans for DET FRP (#7)

Why for DET? They get multiple talent to develop next season.
Why for MIN? Move up in draft to get secondary playmaker/bench scorer. Cleanup roster.

Trade Culver, MIN 2022 SRP for Jae Crowder (S&T 30mil for 4yrs)

Why for MIA? Get defensive minded talent who might fit MIA mentality. Get SRP for facilitating trade.
Why for MIN? Get a solid 3&D veteran.


Draft Tyrese Maxey, Saddiq Bey(Aaron Neismith)

KAT/Reid/Gordon
Gordon/Bey/Vanderbilt
Crowder/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Maxey
DLo/Maxey/JMac

[Killboard]

Well in my mind they wouldn't make that trade for Johnson if they didn't feel like he was in some way the model of what they want next to KAT.

They traded Dieng, who they refused to play alongside KAT. They paid nothing - arguably a bad contract - for Johnson, so I think anything useful was the goal, not that he was some model for the PF position.

Bad contract for bad contract, but I would guess Dieng had more value at the deadline than Johnson. Why would they downgrade an asset?

Lenght of the contract for one. Which is pretty significant when you talk about a bench player making 15M.

[Domejandro]

We get #1 pick. We draft Edwards.

Trade JJ, Edwards, Nowell for Aaron Gordon, ORL FRP (#15)

Why for ORL? They get two talented wings on cheap contracts to balance their roster.
Why for MIN? Get starting PF and 3&D prospect.

Trade BRO pick (#16), MIN SRP #33, Spellman, Evans for DET FRP (#7)

Why for DET? They get multiple talent to develop next season.
Why for MIN? Move up in draft to get secondary playmaker/bench scorer. Cleanup roster.

Trade Culver, MIN 2022 SRP for Jae Crowder (S&T 30mil for 4yrs)

Why for MIA? Get defensive minded talent who might fit MIA mentality. Get SRP for facilitating trade.
Why for MIN? Get a solid 3&D veteran.


Draft Tyrese Maxey, Saddiq Bey(Aaron Neismith)

KAT/Reid/Gordon
Gordon/Bey/Vanderbilt
Crowder/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Maxey
DLo/Maxey/JMac

1. Aaron Gordon is not worth dropping from the first overall Draft Pick all the way down to #15, that is really bad for Minnesota.

2. Spellman and Evans have zero value in trades, that is not nearly enough to get to #7.

3. Why would Minnesota trade Culver to sign Jae Crowder?

[minimus]

We get #1 pick. We draft Edwards.

Trade JJ, Edwards, Nowell for Aaron Gordon, ORL FRP (#15)

Why for ORL? They get two talented wings on cheap contracts to balance their roster.
Why for MIN? Get starting PF and 3&D prospect.

Trade BRO pick (#16), MIN SRP #33, Spellman, Evans for DET FRP (#7)

Why for DET? They get multiple talent to develop next season.
Why for MIN? Move up in draft to get secondary playmaker/bench scorer. Cleanup roster.

Trade Culver, MIN 2022 SRP for Jae Crowder (S&T 30mil for 4yrs)

Why for MIA? Get defensive minded talent who might fit MIA mentality. Get SRP for facilitating trade.
Why for MIN? Get a solid 3&D veteran.

Draft Tyrese Maxey, Saddiq Bey(Aaron Neismith)

KAT/Reid/Gordon
Gordon/Bey/Vanderbilt
Crowder/Layman/Martin
Beasley/Okogie/Maxey
DLo/Maxey/JMac

1. Aaron Gordon is not worth dropping from the first overall Draft Pick all the way down to #15, that is really bad for Minnesota.

2. Spellman and Evans have zero value in trades, that is not nearly enough to get to #7.

3. Why would Minnesota trade Culver to sign Jae Crowder?

1. Gordon is the best PF available on the market. #15 pick is not ideal, but still okay compensation for FRP.
2. Spellman has value, #33 is high enough to draft a quality player.
3. Agree. Jae S&T for 2nd round pick might be enough.

[Klomp]

On the trade market, I think they continue to look at players underutilized in their current situations. I still believe we got good deals on Layman, Beasley and Hernangomez this way, so why not try to go back to the same well again?

[Jedzz]

BTW, we sure we want this guy?

Watch on YouTube

Still thinks he can just jump over people 5 times and win a dunk contest. I find this aspect of him just hilarious. Someone please send a clip to him of people jumping cars in the '90s already and tell him to shut up. He might actually win a dunk contest some day if he stops trying to win by jumping over people and mascots and basicaly making it a circus event. Focus on the dunks man, and to stop failing dunks in the contest might also help.

[Jedzz]

On the trade market, I think they continue to look at players underutilized in their current situations. I still believe we got good deals on Layman, Beasley and Hernangomez this way, so why not try to go back to the same well again?

I agree those may have been good values. As was Covington. And might be a great idea if more is needed. But at what point do you then settle down and try to do something on the court with those good moves and stop shuffling pieces? Almost the entire roster was flipped and we saw a month of ball since. If those were all good moves, maybe the team is good as is? Or were they not really as good of choices as claimed?