Replace Kobe with AI

LakersLegacy · Post #61 » by **LakersLegacy** » Thu May 21, 2020 12:15 am

bubonicphoniks wrote:Settling a debate.

Could you replace Bryant on those Lakers Shaq teams with Iverson and get essentially the same results?

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On defense, leading the Lakers in assists?

Klayforspicy · Post #62 » by **Klayforspicy** » Thu May 21, 2020 12:22 am

Lakers wouldn't of broken up. AI would be ok with Shaq missing practices. Probably 3 titles spread out, with a lot more losses.

Pennebaker · Post #63 » by **Pennebaker** » Thu May 21, 2020 3:00 am

LakersLegacy wrote:
bubonicphoniks wrote:Settling a debate.

Could you replace Bryant on those Lakers Shaq teams with Iverson and get essentially the same results?

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On defense, leading the Lakers in assists?

Iverson's DWS and DBPM in 2001 was superior to Kobe's. He led the league in steals as well.

He would've easily led the Lakers in assists. Kobe only avearged 5.0. Iverson's career average is 6.2.

Golden Knight · Post #64 » by **Golden Knight** » Thu May 21, 2020 4:32 am

Ugalde wrote:an exact swap Kobe for AI they maybe get 1 but probably 0. but if they can rebuild the team and go out and get a long defender to replace Kobe and not need Fisher they can probably pull out 3.

Exactly.

On paper the gap doesn't seem much, with AI being an MVP and a scoring champ...

In reality, you're losing a ton swapping a 6'6 All-Defensive SG that basically have the same offensive weapons for a 6'1 SG that gambles a lot on defense for steals.

It really f*s your game plan when you lose a player that can guard 1-3 and then having one that most of the time will be left to guard the weaker backcourt player of the opposing team.

Look at the Blazers, Pacers of 2000. Depending on the matchup, Kobe can guard Mark Jackson/Travis Best, Reggie and Jalen Rose. AI will always be put on Mark Jackson/Travis Best. Kobe can guard Stoudemire, Steve Smith, even Bonzi and Pip. With AI, he'll only be allowed to guard Stoudemire/Greg Anthony.

You're losing a lot of variations and versatility. The swap might work if you're very dominant like in 2001 but any other year, the Lakers will are losing a lot by swapping AI and Kobe.

I like AI but the Lakers will be better off with a bigger SG like Vince or Ray even if they're not MVP caliber players like AI.

LakersLegacy · Post #65 » by **LakersLegacy** » Thu May 21, 2020 4:52 am

Pennebaker wrote:
LakersLegacy wrote:
bubonicphoniks wrote:Settling a debate.

Could you replace Bryant on those Lakers Shaq teams with Iverson and get essentially the same results?

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

On defense, leading the Lakers in assists?

Iverson's DWS and DBPM in 2001 was superior to Kobe's. He led the league in steals as well.

He would've easily led the Lakers in assists. Kobe only avearged 5.0. Iverson's career average is 6.2.

The triangle vs the Michael Vick of basketball has the ball the entire game on offense. I don’t think AI style fits with Phil Jackson

Picasso · Post #66 » by **Picasso** » Fri May 22, 2020 4:59 am

Up-And-Coming wrote:I don’t think they 3 peat. Maybe win 2 chips. Also AI would not win with the Gasol teams and I would go as far to say they wouldn’t even make the Finals. The Spurs or Nuggets w/ Kobe would be a tough matchup imo

So let me get this right. AI went to the finals with aaron Mckie and george lynch as his best offensive weapons. You dont think he can win with Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom and Ron Artest? I'm not saying it's about being better than Kobe, but you really dont think that stacked team could win? Just on matter of teammates they would win.

logical_art · Post #67 » by **logical_art** » Fri May 22, 2020 5:03 am

AI isnt replacing that defense.

Asianiac_24 · Post #68 » by **Asianiac_24** » Fri May 22, 2020 5:18 am

0 rings

Prado · Post #69 » by **Prado** » Fri May 22, 2020 5:19 am

Maybe 1 ring at best

.

Post #70 » by **Snakebites** » Fri May 22, 2020 5:23 am

First off, I think it's silly to talk about hypothetical wins, so I'll just address whether I think they'd still be FAVORED to win.

Which version of Iverson? If we're assuming parallel replacements (IE, replace 99-00 Kobe with 99-00 Iverson) people forget that Kobe was well before his peak during that very first championship and was definitely a distant second star to Shaq. Don't get me wrong, Kobe was already really good then, but not even All NBA First Team level yet. Iverson was already at his top form by then as he was a couple of years older.

Shaq on the other hand was at his absolute most dominant in 99-00. You could replace Kobe with the 99-00 version of Eddie Jones and they're probably still the favorites that year. Shaq was just that good in that season.

Beyond that it's hard to say. 2001? Um...probably? They crushed everybody in the playoffs that season, so I think there's probably a few guys you could in theory replace Kobe with and they're probably at least still the favorites.

2002 is muddier, but I'm going to lean towards no regardless of the version of Iverson you're replacing Kobe with. Kobe by then was closer to his peak and was pretty important to them beating the Kings, who came a few zebra calls away that year even with Kobe.

I don't think there's any case for the Lakers being the favorites if you replace Kobe with any version of Iverson in 2009 or 2010.

durden_tyler · Post #71 » by **durden_tyler** » Fri May 22, 2020 5:26 am

You're not replacing Shaq, who was the biggest factor in these championships so yes they still win.

Up-And-Coming · Post #72 » by **Up-And-Coming** » Fri May 22, 2020 5:56 am

Picasso wrote:
Up-And-Coming wrote:I don’t think they 3 peat. Maybe win 2 chips. Also AI would not win with the Gasol teams and I would go as far to say they wouldn’t even make the Finals. The Spurs or Nuggets w/ Kobe would be a tough matchup imo

So let me get this right. AI went to the finals with aaron Mckie and george lynch as his best offensive weapons. You dont think he can win with Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom and Ron Artest? I'm not saying it's about being better than Kobe, but you really dont think that stacked team could win? Just on matter of teammates they would win.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You have to look back and remember the latter part of his career. Allen Iverson didn't just play w/ Mutombo, Snow, McKie, Ratliff

Allen Iverson also played w/ prime Carmelo, Kenyon Martin, Marcus Camby, Nene, and J.R. Smith and got swept in the first round by the 2007/08 Lakers who started Vladimir Radmanovic.

I understand he had a great playoff run in 2001, but that wasn't the story for the rest of his career. Iverson was an exciting player to watch, and a deserved All-Star in his prime, but I strongly believe he would not get past the Spurs or Nuggets (w/ Kobe, Melo, Kenyon, Nene, J.R., Birdman, etc.)

bballgod07 · Post #73 » by **bballgod07** » Fri May 22, 2020 6:00 am

Pennebaker wrote:
bubonicphoniks wrote:Settling a debate.

Could you replace Bryant on those Lakers Shaq teams with Iverson and get essentially the same results?

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Yes, and here's why:

Kobe played poorly in most of those Finals and the Lakers still won.

It would not have been difficulty for ANY All-Star caliber shooting guard to step in and do a better job, let alone Allen Iverson.

This is why Kobe is overrated. He's nothing without a good team. He cant even carry his team to the playoffs without a star player.

Kobe187 · Post #74 » by **Kobe187** » Fri May 22, 2020 6:04 am

As great as Iverson was, Kobe was simply much better overall. Offensively there wouldn’t be too much of a drop off, but defensively it would be huge. Kobe was an excellent defender, 12 time all defensive team. The Lakers would be much worse with AI instead of The Black Mamba.

Side beard · Post #75 » by **Side beard** » Fri May 22, 2020 8:21 am

Lakers would have more than 1 three peat in 00s.

LakersLegacy · Post #76 » by **LakersLegacy** » Fri May 22, 2020 10:05 am

Pennebaker wrote:
LakersLegacy wrote:
bubonicphoniks wrote:Settling a debate.

Could you replace Bryant on those Lakers Shaq teams with Iverson and get essentially the same results?

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

On defense, leading the Lakers in assists?

Iverson's DWS and DBPM in 2001 was superior to Kobe's. He led the league in steals as well.

He would've easily led the Lakers in assists. Kobe only avearged 5.0. Iverson's career average is 6.2.

Kobe was the youngest player in history to make the NBA all-defense team

Dr Aki · Post #77 » by **Dr Aki** » Fri May 22, 2020 11:18 am

Yeh nah

Pg81 · Post #78 » by **Pg81** » Fri May 22, 2020 11:22 am

Up-And-Coming wrote:
Picasso wrote:
Up-And-Coming wrote:I don’t think they 3 peat. Maybe win 2 chips. Also AI would not win with the Gasol teams and I would go as far to say they wouldn’t even make the Finals. The Spurs or Nuggets w/ Kobe would be a tough matchup imo

So let me get this right. AI went to the finals with aaron Mckie and george lynch as his best offensive weapons. You dont think he can win with Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom and Ron Artest? I'm not saying it's about being better than Kobe, but you really dont think that stacked team could win? Just on matter of teammates they would win.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You have to look back and remember the latter part of his career. Allen Iverson didn't just play w/ Mutombo, Snow, McKie, Ratliff

Allen Iverson also played w/ prime Carmelo, Kenyon Martin, Marcus Camby, Nene, and J.R. Smith and got swept in the first round by the 2007/08 Lakers who started Vladimir Radmanovic.

I understand he had a great playoff run in 2001, but that wasn't the story for the rest of his career. Iverson was an exciting player to watch, and a deserved All-Star in his prime, but I strongly believe he would not get past the Spurs or Nuggets (w/ Kobe, Melo, Kenyon, Nene, J.R., Birdman, etc.)

Melo and AI were a bad fit, both ball dominant driving scorers. That is not on him but on the Nuggets putting together ill fitting pieces. Also that was a mere 1 series. Sorry but one series means little. Iverson never got a real chance to take over a team with better team mates than the anemic offensive players he had in Philly. Iverson did indeed not just play with Mutombo. He had a mere 2 seasons with him. People act like Mutombo was a long standing companion with AI. Hint, he wasn't.

xinxin · Post #79 » by **xinxin** » Fri May 22, 2020 11:39 am

Lakers don’t win squat.

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Picasso · Post #80 » by **Picasso** » Fri May 22, 2020 9:46 pm

Pg81 wrote:
Up-And-Coming wrote:
Picasso wrote:
So let me get this right. AI went to the finals with aaron Mckie and george lynch as his best offensive weapons. You dont think he can win with Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom and Ron Artest? I'm not saying it's about being better than Kobe, but you really dont think that stacked team could win? Just on matter of teammates they would win.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You have to look back and remember the latter part of his career. Allen Iverson didn't just play w/ Mutombo, Snow, McKie, Ratliff

Allen Iverson also played w/ prime Carmelo, Kenyon Martin, Marcus Camby, Nene, and J.R. Smith and got swept in the first round by the 2007/08 Lakers who started Vladimir Radmanovic.

I understand he had a great playoff run in 2001, but that wasn't the story for the rest of his career. Iverson was an exciting player to watch, and a deserved All-Star in his prime, but I strongly believe he would not get past the Spurs or Nuggets (w/ Kobe, Melo, Kenyon, Nene, J.R., Birdman, etc.)

Melo and AI were a bad fit, both ball dominant driving scorers. That is not on him but on the Nuggets putting together ill fitting pieces. Also that was a mere 1 series. Sorry but one series means little. Iverson never got a real chance to take over a team with better team mates than the anemic offensive players he had in Philly. Iverson did indeed not just play with Mutombo. He had a mere 2 seasons with him. People act like Mutombo was a long standing companion with AI. Hint, he wasn't.

Exactly. Was it even 2 seasons. They had to trade Ratliff and Kukoc for him after the all star break.

And I agree. That Denver team was not a good fit and were acting like AI had years playing in Denver. He played less than 3 years in Denver before being moved to Detroit.

Prime AI never had really great scorers on his team. And when he did go to Denver they won the 2nd most games in their franchise NBA history up to that point and AI played the role of 2nd option to Melo.