2020 NBA Draft II

D3ko · Post #861 » by **D3ko** » Fri May 22, 2020 11:29 pm

getrichordie wrote:Top players in the league tend to be bigger on average. It’s about finding that happy medium between size and skill. You can have a ton of skill but not enough size and your impact has a relatively low ceiling (Trae Young), whereas a lot of size and a little skill can have a lot of impact (i.e. Mitchell Robinson).

Crazy example.

So Robinson has more impact than an starter All Star PG , probably the best PG young in the league, in a league where the main theme is shooting 3´s , collapsing and dishing and this guy is great at both.

I would be kind of agree that size matter, but talent is talent. Robinson´s kind of player is available every year , Trae´s talent not.

Give me a low all star player every draft and you can keep the impactful players as Robinson.

Robinson will be an useful player as a rotation player, that´s it. That type of impact can be replaced for a min vet like Robin Lopez,Mcgee.

At the same tier of talent, SIZE MATTERS.Agree on that

TB · Post #862 » by TB » Fri May 22, 2020 11:31 pm

Ya i've always just thought of Okoro as a 2/3... doesn't really matter.

It's like how nobody really cares if guys like klay, Leonard, Jimmy, Wes Mathews, and on and on are slotted at the 2 or 3... point is they can be tasked to guard 1-3 when needed.

getrichordie · Post #863 » by **getrichordie** » Sat May 23, 2020 1:39 am

The-Power wrote:
getrichordie wrote:For those that are looking at Okoro as a 3, Hollinger stated he believes Okoro can be a 2, and I agree. I've been saying this, but have had a little push back so it was refreshing to hear Hollinger talk about Okoro as a prospective 2.

May I ask: why would it even matter?

Idk. Ask the guys in my defenders thread. A few took issue with it but I'm not sure why. I think they still subscribe to the old way of thinking.

eminence · Post #864 » by **eminence** » Sat May 23, 2020 2:08 am

Why is Paul Reed projected in the 2nd a lot of places? I look at that guy and see a potential stud, I think I might give him a later lotto grade.

getrichordie · Post #865 » by **getrichordie** » Sat May 23, 2020 3:15 am

eminence wrote:Why is Paul Reed projected in the 2nd a lot of places? I look at that guy and see a potential stud, I think I might give him a later lotto grade.

Hollinger has him late lotto. The concern with him is his offensive game. He has funky shot mechanics and didn't shoot particularly well. So if he's a really good defender but can't shoot, what is he in the NBA? There's also questions about him chasing blocks rather than playing sound defense.

HeadtopChunes · Post #866 » by **HeadtopChunes** » Sat May 23, 2020 6:12 am

getrichordie wrote:
eminence wrote:Why is Paul Reed projected in the 2nd a lot of places? I look at that guy and see a potential stud, I think I might give him a later lotto grade.

Hollinger has him late lotto. The concern with him is his offensive game. He has funky shot mechanics and didn't shoot particularly well. So if he's a really good defender but can't shoot, what is he in the NBA? There's also questions about him chasing blocks rather than playing sound defense.

Also seems like teams arent sure about his personality, apparently has a bit of an ego in the "sees himself as more than a role player" way. That could be good or bad but maybe teams arent sure if he'd be happy with a garbage man role?

getrichordie · Post #867 » by **getrichordie** » Sat May 23, 2020 6:24 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
eminence wrote:Why is Paul Reed projected in the 2nd a lot of places? I look at that guy and see a potential stud, I think I might give him a later lotto grade.

Hollinger has him late lotto. The concern with him is his offensive game. He has funky shot mechanics and didn't shoot particularly well. So if he's a really good defender but can't shoot, what is he in the NBA? There's also questions about him chasing blocks rather than playing sound defense.

Also seems like teams arent sure about his personality, apparently has a bit of an ego in the "sees himself as more than a role player" way. That could be good or bad but maybe teams arent sure if he'd be happy with a garbage man role?

Source?

HeadtopChunes · Post #868 » by **HeadtopChunes** » Sat May 23, 2020 7:18 am

getrichordie wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
Hollinger has him late lotto. The concern with him is his offensive game. He has funky shot mechanics and didn't shoot particularly well. So if he's a really good defender but can't shoot, what is he in the NBA? There's also questions about him chasing blocks rather than playing sound defense.

Also seems like teams arent sure about his personality, apparently has a bit of an ego in the "sees himself as more than a role player" way. That could be good or bad but maybe teams arent sure if he'd be happy with a garbage man role?

Source?

Vecenie has alluded to it here and there,

Such as in this article Draft: https://theathletic.com/1812165/2020/05/18/draft-prep-discussing-the-raptors-landscape-at-nos-28-and-58-with-sam-vecenie/?source=user_shared_article

I’ve also heard from a few NBA teams that have interviewed him that the role he sees himself long term isn’t quite commensurate with where they see him.

Saw a similar more in-depth thing on Twitter a while back but struggling to find it rn.

getrichordie · Post #869 » by **getrichordie** » Sat May 23, 2020 7:20 am

@25:03 :: I found this defensive possession to be somewhat encouraging for Carey Jr.'s stock.

Moves feet fairly well, takes good angle, and cuts off guard at the rim. I'd like to see a little more contest here at the rim and this is where his WS/SR hurts his defensive projection.

@25:30 :: Passable P&R defense here and Carey Jr. showing great awareness and makes the quick rotation out to perimeter while moving his feet fairly well but needs to sit down in his stance a little more as he is a bit too upright which hurts his lateral quickness.

Spoiler:

If you continue watching the video, he actually shows some defensive chops in ISO situations on perimeter and does a solid job affecting shots at the rim and pressuring ball-handlers when switched out on to perimeter.

The question for Carey Jr. is can he defend bigs in the NBA and what is his role on offense? Can he be a rim-runner? Can he space the floor consistently? Can he score efficiently against NBA bigs?

HeadtopChunes · Post #870 » by **HeadtopChunes** » Sat May 23, 2020 8:24 am

getrichordie wrote:@25:03 :: I found this defensive possession to be somewhat encouraging for Carey Jr.'s stock.

Moves feet fairly well, takes good angle, and cuts off guard at the rim. I'd like to see a little more contest here at the rim and this is where his WS/SR hurts his defensive projection.

@25:30 :: Passable P&R defense here and Carey Jr. showing great awareness and makes the quick rotation out to perimeter while moving his feet fairly well but needs to sit down in his stance a little more as he is a bit too upright which hurts his lateral quickness.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

If you continue watching the video, he actually shows some defensive chops in ISO situations on perimeter and does a solid job affecting shots at the rim and pressuring ball-handlers when switched out on to perimeter.

The question for Carey Jr. is can he defend bigs in the NBA and what is his role on offense? Can he be a rim-runner? Can he space the floor consistently? Can he score efficiently against NBA bigs?

See, I don't think athleticism is Carey's problem when it comes to defense, it's not amazing sure, but it would be entirely possible for him to be a good defender if he knew what he was doing like Wendell did.

He just seems to straight-up suck on that end, effort, technique & recognition all seems sub-par. Not sure you can coach all that. When I saw College teams targeting him and doing well it's been tough for me to consider him a good NBA guy.

That being said, I think he can still be productive offensively, he showcased some passing flashes this year. Some post up skill, finishing was okay but not great , showed some good roll man skill. Might shoot 3s one day?

He is not a guy I would draft but I can see a team believe they can scheme out the Defensive issues and just use him as an offensive spark plug (maybe Dallas?)

Could be a Greg Monroe type maybe, but considering actual Greg Monroe cant get a job idk how valuable that is

The-Power · Post #871 » by **The-Power** » Sat May 23, 2020 10:48 am

eminence wrote:Why is Paul Reed projected in the 2nd a lot of places? I look at that guy and see a potential stud, I think I might give him a later lotto grade.

I have him as a late lottery pick myself. I guess it depends on how much you buy into his defense and whether or not you care about prospects with limited offensive ceilings.

Stillwater · Post #872 » by **Stillwater** » Sat May 23, 2020 1:08 pm

The-Power wrote:
eminence wrote:Why is Paul Reed projected in the 2nd a lot of places? I look at that guy and see a potential stud, I think I might give him a later lotto grade.

I have him as a late lottery pick myself. I guess it depends on how much you buy into his defense and whether or not you care about prospects with limited offensive ceilings.

Deserves to be a high floor first round target as high as 15 and is still young for a 3 yr college starter. But in the same way Paschal fell to 41 last draft who showed better transferable shooting than Reed its possible somebody gets a steal early 2nd.

karkinos · Post #873 » by **karkinos** » Sat May 23, 2020 4:31 pm

D3ko wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Top players in the league tend to be bigger on average. It’s about finding that happy medium between size and skill. You can have a ton of skill but not enough size and your impact has a relatively low ceiling (Trae Young), whereas a lot of size and a little skill can have a lot of impact (i.e. Mitchell Robinson).

Crazy example.

So Robinson has more impact than an starter All Star PG , probably the best PG young in the league

....
hawks are 20-47

trae young is far from the best pg in the league.

Mecca · Post #874 » by **Mecca** » Sat May 23, 2020 5:16 pm

Hey guys, if anyone's interested, I have a video-infused breakdown on LaMelo Ball on the medium.

Link if anyone's interested:

https://link.medium.com/tCrYWDLHI6

Nazrmohamed · Post #875 » by **Nazrmohamed** » Sat May 23, 2020 7:33 pm

D3ko wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Top players in the league tend to be bigger on average. It’s about finding that happy medium between size and skill. You can have a ton of skill but not enough size and your impact has a relatively low ceiling (Trae Young), whereas a lot of size and a little skill can have a lot of impact (i.e. Mitchell Robinson).

Crazy example.

So Robinson has more impact than an starter All Star PG , probably the best PG young in the league, in a league where the main theme is shooting 3´s , collapsing and dishing and this guy is great at both.

I would be kind of agree that size matter, but talent is talent. Robinson´s kind of player is available every year , Trae´s talent not.

Give me a low all star player every draft and you can keep the impactful players as Robinson.

Robinson will be an useful player as a rotation player, that´s it. That type of impact can be replaced for a min vet like Robin Lopez,Mcgee.

At the same tier of talent, SIZE MATTERS.Agree on that

I wanna defend Robinsons skill level while not taking away from the point your making. It was a good point. The comparison was unfair to Mitch though. Different roles and different sides of the ball, sink or swim.

eminence · Post #876 » by **eminence** » Sat May 23, 2020 7:59 pm

Starting digging in and I have to say, a lot of the guys getting mocked pretty high worry me quite a lot with the shooting %'s. Edwards/Maxey/Anthony/Mannion/Lewis all look questionable to me for guys getting drafted to be offensive initiators.

karkinos · Post #877 » by **karkinos** » Sat May 23, 2020 9:14 pm

[gfycat][/gfycat]

Mecca wrote:Hey guys, if anyone's interested, I have a video-infused breakdown on LaMelo Ball on the medium.

Link if anyone's interested:

https://link.medium.com/tCrYWDLHI6

good writeup

agree that the pnr potential with him is incredible.

youngWizzy · Post #878 » by **youngWizzy** » Sun May 24, 2020 10:10 pm

Hey guys, I just added a new feature to my site that let's you compare two prospects side by side here: https://nbadraftcomp.herokuapp.com/compare

Probably one of the cooler tools I've added.

I also added age as a method for comparing players for per40 and advanced stats which a lot of you requested! You can also choose to add manual measurements on the site as well as pick and choose which measurements you would like to compare physical measurements for players. Also similarity scores for comparisons are on the site as well!

If you don't mind checking it out that'd be amazing!!!!

shakes0 · Post #879 » by **shakes0** » Sun May 24, 2020 10:48 pm

eminence wrote:Why is Paul Reed projected in the 2nd a lot of places? I look at that guy and see a potential stud, I think I might give him a later lotto grade.

as apparently the only DePaul grad/fan on this board I feel like his question is for me. I was really high on Reed early, but I was a little disappointed in his play towards the end of the year. He was dominant early on and was getting to just about any spot he wanted with the ball in the offensive zone. And hitting shots from all those places. But, when the conference season heated up he was no longer getting to those spots, at least not nearly as often.

I still see him as a possible first round pick, but I don't think he's lotto talent anymore.

King Ken · Post #880 » by **King Ken** » Sun May 24, 2020 10:57 pm

getrichordie wrote:Top players in the league tend to be bigger on average. It’s about finding that happy medium between size and skill. You can have a ton of skill but not enough size and your impact has a relatively low ceiling (Trae Young), whereas a lot of size and a little skill can have a lot of impact (i.e. Mitchell Robinson).

Trae Young has a lot of impact and a lot more than Mitchell Robinson unless you are talking just defense.