Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq

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How many titles?

Poll ended at Sat May 30, 2020 2:01 pm

8
2
8%
7
3
12%
6
10
40%
5
6
24%
4
2
8%
3
2
8%
 
Total votes: 25

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Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#1 » by chitownsalesmen » Sat May 23, 2020 1:59 pm

What if LeBron started his career with 8 years of playing a 24-31 year old Shaq? Do they surpass 3 titles?
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#2 » by NbaAllDay » Sat May 23, 2020 2:22 pm

This is going to cause a bit of drama this thread.

As a hypothetical, let's say Lebron gets Shaq instead if big Z. But he gets him in his rookie year.
04 and 05 they are building but Lebron has not fully emerged.
You could see them winning in 06 since Lebrontook a leap here. Although that's awkward because Shaq is with Miami who they lose to in 6. If you just change the Bigs, Cavs win 06.
They may win 07 although Spurs still might take this one but they can't have the same game plan and I doubt they can deal with Shaq here. Leaning Cavs.
They beat Boston in 08 instead of losing in 7. Win title.
09 they have the size to stop Dwight. I see them winning comfortably and beating Lakers. (Prime Shaq v Pau and Prime LBJ v Kobe. Would be amazing) but LBJ and Shaq take this.
10 same story Shaq a but slower now but LBJ is the clear best player in the league.
11 Miami trade never happens. Beat Boston in ECF and (I honestly think half of Lebrons issues in 11 was trying to let Wade have the glory as well which made him far too passive) something he wouldnt worry about now since he and Shaq were there from day 1. They beat Dallas.

So I see 5-6 Rings and honestly there could be more depending on what team is build around them. This is assuming they stay together and I think LBJ not having to have the 'alpha dog' mentality would set them up pretty well.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#3 » by Tor_Raps » Sat May 23, 2020 2:30 pm

We all know lebron is head and shoulders above Kobe so the answer you're looking for is more than him? Lol
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#4 » by Jayt99 » Sat May 23, 2020 2:35 pm

I don’t think they win any. Shaq wouldn’t be the greatest fit with Lebron. Especially young Lebron and his lack of a jump shot.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#5 » by Vampirate » Sat May 23, 2020 2:38 pm

Jayt99 wrote:I don’t think they win any. Shaq wouldn’t be the greatest fit with Lebron. Especially young Lebron and his lack of a jump shot.

Prime Shaq with just about any superstar would win at least 1 title.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#6 » by Jayt99 » Sat May 23, 2020 2:40 pm

Vampirate wrote:
Jayt99 wrote:I don’t think they win any. Shaq wouldn’t be the greatest fit with Lebron. Especially young Lebron and his lack of a jump shot.

Prime Shaq with just about any superstar would win at least 1 title.


Shaq does well with guards. Young Lebron and Shaq would need to occupy the paint. IMO they wouldn’t mesh well. Teams would clog the paint and let Lebron shoot from the outside. I guess saying at least one is fair but IDK that's a really bad fit.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#7 » by Vampirate » Sat May 23, 2020 2:44 pm

Jayt99 wrote:
Vampirate wrote:
Jayt99 wrote:I don’t think they win any. Shaq wouldn’t be the greatest fit with Lebron. Especially young Lebron and his lack of a jump shot.

Prime Shaq with just about any superstar would win at least 1 title.


Shaq does well with guards. Young Lebron and Shaq would need to occupy the paint. IMO they wouldn’t mesh well. Teams would clog the paint and let Lebron shoot from the outside.


You're forgetting Lebron's passing though, all either of them need to do is draw attention to themselves and pass to the other for an easy dunk pretty much every time.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#8 » by chitownsalesmen » Sat May 23, 2020 2:46 pm

Jayt99 wrote:
Vampirate wrote:
Jayt99 wrote:I don’t think they win any. Shaq wouldn’t be the greatest fit with Lebron. Especially young Lebron and his lack of a jump shot.

Prime Shaq with just about any superstar would win at least 1 title.


Shaq does well with guards. Young Lebron and Shaq would need to occupy the paint. IMO they wouldn’t mesh well. Teams would clog the paint and let Lebron shoot from the outside.



Yeah that .329 LeBron shot from 3 in his firs 8 years is only the exact same percentage Kobe has for his career.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#9 » by JayMKE » Sat May 23, 2020 2:52 pm

Basically you're asking if Lebron replaced Kobe with prime Shaq, it would have been an amazing combination that probably would have meshed better personality wise. Lebron probably takes on more of Magic Johnson role and would defer to Shaq's alpha.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#10 » by Lockdown504090 » Sat May 23, 2020 3:08 pm

NbaAllDay wrote:This is going to cause a bit of drama this thread.

As a hypothetical, let's say Lebron gets Shaq instead if big Z. But he gets him in his rookie year.
04 and 05 they are building but Lebron has not fully emerged.
You could see them winning in 06 since Lebrontook a leap here. Although that's awkward because Shaq is with Miami who they lose to in 6. If you just change the Bigs, Cavs win 06.
They may win 07 although Spurs still might take this one but they can't have the same game plan and I doubt they can deal with Shaq here. Leaning Cavs.
They beat Boston in 08 instead of losing in 7. Win title.
09 they have the size to stop Dwight. I see them winning comfortably and beating Lakers. (Prime Shaq v Pau and Prime LBJ v Kobe. Would be amazing) but LBJ and Shaq take this.
10 same story Shaq a but slower now but LBJ is the clear best player in the league.
11 Miami trade never happens. Beat Boston in ECF and (I honestly think half of Lebrons issues in 11 was trying to let Wade have the glory as well which made him far too passive) something he wouldnt worry about now since he and Shaq were there from day 1. They beat Dallas.

So I see 5-6 Rings and honestly there could be more depending on what team is build around them. This is assuming they stay together and I think LBJ not having to have the 'alpha dog' mentality would set them up pretty well.


If i were to clone shaq in 2006 and have him play against miami, miami would win off of better supporting cast+ better coaching+ better injury management for O'neil. THIS WOULD BE THEIR BEST CHANCE THOUGH

They arent winning in 04, or 05 They wouldnt get through the lakers, the spurs or the pistons.

2007 they are still losing because the strategies the spurs used against lebron and exploiting his inability to shoot with confidence, is only being made worse by playing with shaq. Now lebron has to play off the ball and the Discipline of the spurs will force him to shoot, it might go 6 games instead of 4, but I dont see them getting that series, you are severely underrating the spurs here. And the cavs as a whole had a bad team, adding shaq isnt going to change that.

2008
How do you like their odds against boston?
Rondo / House
Ray allen / Tony allen
Pierce/James Posey
Garnett
Perkins.


At this point in their careers I dont even think shaq is a better fit than big Z was and he shaq was only marginally a better player overall. he doesnt space the floor, didnt play defense at the time, and the celtics had perkins who was probably wasnt going to get totally overwhelmed by his size. There was a sharp dropoff for shaq that season and they traded him to the suns.

We may have saw it as he was one star away, but Lebron didnt really have infrastructure around him in cleveland to win a title. He didnt have the coaching, the management, leadership up top from Gilbert. Lebron did not have the ability to play with another star yet, as shown by how difficult the adjustment was to playing with wade and bosh that first year. Maybe he would have developed it as he went on, so he would be able to play with another star at 24 or 25 instead of 28, his game might look pretty different though, maybe for the better actually.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#11 » by BigtimeNBAfan » Sat May 23, 2020 3:15 pm

If Lebron played with Prime Shaq for 8 years he would win at least 5 titles. You would literally have the 2 best players of the last 22 years playing together and would be unstoppable. Lebron won 60+ games with a garbage supporting cast that couldn't even make the playoffs without him. Adding a superstar that averaged 30/15 in the playoffs in his prime would make it a cheat code.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#12 » by LakersLegacy » Sat May 23, 2020 3:33 pm

LeBron played with Shaq in 2009-2010. Shaq averaged 12 points and 6.7 rebounds. Was really hoping for to see LeBron/Shaq in the Finals.

Then Shaq wanted to join the Heat in 2010. He would have really helped the Heat. But Riley didn’t want him because Shaq can have trouble staying motivated. It’s why Riley had a problem with Shaq.

Riley would have loved Shaq late in his career if Shaq trained like Kareem.

No great player could keep Shaq motivated. I love Shaq but objectively that’s just how I see it.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#13 » by chitownsalesmen » Sat May 23, 2020 3:35 pm

Lockdown504090 wrote:
NbaAllDay wrote:This is going to cause a bit of drama this thread.

As a hypothetical, let's say Lebron gets Shaq instead if big Z. But he gets him in his rookie year.
04 and 05 they are building but Lebron has not fully emerged.
You could see them winning in 06 since Lebrontook a leap here. Although that's awkward because Shaq is with Miami who they lose to in 6. If you just change the Bigs, Cavs win 06.
They may win 07 although Spurs still might take this one but they can't have the same game plan and I doubt they can deal with Shaq here. Leaning Cavs.
They beat Boston in 08 instead of losing in 7. Win title.
09 they have the size to stop Dwight. I see them winning comfortably and beating Lakers. (Prime Shaq v Pau and Prime LBJ v Kobe. Would be amazing) but LBJ and Shaq take this.
10 same story Shaq a but slower now but LBJ is the clear best player in the league.
11 Miami trade never happens. Beat Boston in ECF and (I honestly think half of Lebrons issues in 11 was trying to let Wade have the glory as well which made him far too passive) something he wouldnt worry about now since he and Shaq were there from day 1. They beat Dallas.

So I see 5-6 Rings and honestly there could be more depending on what team is build around them. This is assuming they stay together and I think LBJ not having to have the 'alpha dog' mentality would set them up pretty well.


If i were to clone shaq in 2006 and have him play against miami, miami would win off of better supporting cast+ better coaching+ better injury management for O'neil. THIS WOULD BE THEIR BEST CHANCE THOUGH

They arent winning in 04, or 05 They wouldnt get through the lakers, the spurs or the pistons.

2007 they are still losing because the strategies the spurs used against lebron and exploiting his inability to shoot with confidence, is only being made worse by playing with shaq. Now lebron has to play off the ball and the Discipline of the spurs will force him to shoot, it might go 6 games instead of 4, but I dont see them getting that series, you are severely underrating the spurs here. And the cavs as a whole had a bad team, adding shaq isnt going to change that.

2008
How do you like their odds against boston?
Rondo / House
Ray allen / Tony allen
Pierce/James Posey
Garnett
Perkins.


At this point in their careers I dont even think shaq is a better fit than big Z was and he shaq was only marginally a better player overall. he doesnt space the floor, didnt play defense at the time, and the celtics had perkins who was probably wasnt going to get totally overwhelmed by his size. There was a sharp dropoff for shaq that season and they traded him to the suns.

We may have saw it as he was one star away, but Lebron didnt really have infrastructure around him in cleveland to win a title. He didnt have the coaching, the management, leadership up top from Gilbert. Lebron did not have the ability to play with another star yet, as shown by how difficult the adjustment was to playing with wade and bosh that first year. Maybe he would have developed it as he went on, so he would be able to play with another star at 24 or 25 instead of 28, his game might look pretty different though, maybe for the better actually.



It wouldn't be 06 shaq veruses 06 shaq tho, it would be 99 shaq vs 06 shaq. you must not be understanding that point. You start with 2003 Cavs/Rookie LeBron then add a 24 year old shaq not the 30 year old that shaq was in 2003.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#14 » by Duffman100 » Sat May 23, 2020 3:39 pm

Freakishly unstoppable. You surround them with 3 point shooters and defenders with a decent backup PG who can create a bit.

You ain't stopping that team.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#15 » by G-Mamba » Sat May 23, 2020 3:41 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:We all know lebron is head and shoulders above Kobe so the answer you're looking for is more than him? Lol


Oh really give Kobe tmac and kg like lebron joined Bosh and wade. That team would have more rings than lebron miami. Spurs defended lebron under the screen and asked him to shoot the ball. That wasnt the game plan for kobe. Kobe won 2 rings with pau. Lebron won 2 rings with wade and bosh. Lebron is at his best with ball in his hand and making plays. Shaq needs to pound in the paint. Both are poor free throw shooters. Lebron is solid but he isn't reliable. Bosh and love both were post up players who became spot up shooter for lebron. Those were lebron's best year when the paint is clear. Shaq in his prime didnt win with penny. He was geting swept by the dream. He didnt win until Kobe emerged. Batman and superman people. I dont think Kobe wins with wade and bosh because it's a bad fit. Lebron is at his best with mobile big who can stertch the floor, secondary elite scorer and 3pt shooters around him. Lebron wasnt great shooter and he was shooting .32 percent being left open. Kobe shot the same while being contested. Stats are so miss leading. Let's just go by prime Kobe vs prime lebron. Compare those stats.

Prime kobe 01-09
28.7 pts 5.8rbs 5.3 ast 1.7 steals efg .489 ft .84 3p.343 fg.45

Lebron 08-2016

27.1pts 7.4 brds 7.1ast 1.6 steals efg.553 ft .75
3pt .345 fg .516

About heads shoulder.....

Lebron won 2 rings with wade and bosh.. kobe won 2 with pau. Please check stats of Lamar and Bynum before you say they were anything more than role players Lol bynum barely even played those playoffs. Can lebron win on those Lakers squad? It would turn into cavs without kyrie.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#16 » by HMFFL » Sat May 23, 2020 3:46 pm

LakersLegacy wrote:LeBron played with Shaq in 2009-2010. Shaq averaged 12 points and 6.7 rebounds. Was really hoping for to see LeBron/Shaq in the Finals.

Then Shaq wanted to join the Heat in 2010. He would have really helped the Heat. But Riley didn’t want him because Shaq can have trouble staying motivated. It’s why Riley had a problem with Shaq.

Riley would have loved Shaq late in his career if Shaq trained like Kareem.

No great player could keep Shaq motivated. I love Shaq but objectively that’s just how I see it.
Riley has been known to have the most intense practices. Shaq would have been 38yrs old.

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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#17 » by LakerLegend » Sat May 23, 2020 3:54 pm

chitownsalesmen wrote:What if LeBron started his career with 8 years of playing a 24-31 year old Shaq? Do they surpass 3 titles?

LeBron was basically a year older than Kobe as rookies, and why is the minimum option 3?
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#18 » by LakersLegacy » Sat May 23, 2020 4:05 pm

HMFFL wrote:
LakersLegacy wrote:LeBron played with Shaq in 2009-2010. Shaq averaged 12 points and 6.7 rebounds. Was really hoping for to see LeBron/Shaq in the Finals.

Then Shaq wanted to join the Heat in 2010. He would have really helped the Heat. But Riley didn’t want him because Shaq can have trouble staying motivated. It’s why Riley had a problem with Shaq.

Riley would have loved Shaq late in his career if Shaq trained like Kareem.

No great player could keep Shaq motivated. I love Shaq but objectively that’s just how I see it.
Riley has been known to have the most intense practices. Shaq would have been 38yrs old.

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Kareem had those same practices at 40. Shaq was known to alter the cardio equipment that Riley/Heat used so he could take it easy. Like the stationary bikes so they gave false results.

I think it’s a crime that Shaq wasn’t on either the 2010-2011 Heat or Lakers. I really love Shaq. The issues people had with him were really over his work ethic and lack of professionalism. We all love the clown. But that clowning around can get in the way of a developing a championship mentality. And can be a distraction especially to role players.
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#19 » by Jayt99 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:22 pm

chitownsalesmen wrote:
Jayt99 wrote:
Vampirate wrote:Prime Shaq with just about any superstar would win at least 1 title.


Shaq does well with guards. Young Lebron and Shaq would need to occupy the paint. IMO they wouldn’t mesh well. Teams would clog the paint and let Lebron shoot from the outside.



Yeah that .329 LeBron shot from 3 in his firs 8 years is only the exact same percentage Kobe has for his career.


Yeah it's not like the spurs exploited Lebron's poor jump shot/outside shooting in the 07 finals :roll:
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Re: Rookie LeBron + 8 years of Shaq 

Post#20 » by rtiff68 » Sat May 23, 2020 4:26 pm

I normally steer clear of these topics, because winning a title is about having high end talent and envisioning how those pieces could or would fit together. In a lot of cases, I feel comfortable predicting a “title” for a lot of superstar combinations, provided they have a multiple year window.

Winning “titles” is considerably different, because it gets exponentially harder each time— title/Finals runs take a heavy physical and emotional toll on players— if “The Last Dance” accurately highlighted anything, it was that. It’s impossible to project how hypothetical superstar pairings would cope with that exhaustion, increased injury risk, etc.

This is one of the very rare hypothetical cases where I would feel comfortable projecting “multiple titles,” and I feel that way because LeBron has proven that he is one of the most exhaustion/injury resilient players ever. To play at the level he did— and to stay healthy— while shouldering the load he did over the course of almost a decade worth of consecutive Finals runs is pretty incredible.

I don’t feel comfortable projecting a specific number, but I do feel comfortable saying that the titles would be plural.

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