2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 4)

[Garbagelo]

Poku is not a gamble, I see stardom. STARDOM. .... if we actually develop him

[mpharris36]

There is no such thing as hiding somebody on defense. How do you hide Doncic on defense? He's not a good defender at the 2 or 3, size means nothing when he can't stay in front of his man. Just like you can't hide RJ on defense by having him defend guards, he can't, so the same thing with Lamelo, if he can't guard guards then there is no hiding him.

But anyways, it would be foolish to trade up for him when we didn't attempt to trade up for players who are better than him

that I agree with.

However, its a lot easier to hide a guy on defense that can potentially guard multiple positions. Usually teams don't have really good offensive players at there 1-3 positions.

Trae Young because of his diminutive size still has to guard PG's because he is not big enough to guard 2 guards. LaMelo in theory could defend the weaker offensive player, That is what I mean by "hiding" him.

How is it easier? Teams are using 2-3 guard lineups nowadays so it's not easier. There is a lot of versatility in the league and you really can't hide guys on defense night in and night out.

one guy is 6'7, the other guy is 6'1...

[HEZI]

that I agree with.

However, its a lot easier to hide a guy on defense that can potentially guard multiple positions. Usually teams don't have really good offensive players at there 1-3 positions.

Trae Young because of his diminutive size still has to guard PG's because he is not big enough to guard 2 guards. LaMelo in theory could defend the weaker offensive player, That is what I mean by "hiding" him.

How is it easier? Teams are using 2-3 guard lineups nowadays so it's not easier. There is a lot of versatility in the league and you really can't hide guys on defense night in and night out.

one guy is 6'7, the other guy is 6'1...

I wasn't asking for their height I'm asking how is that relative to hiding somebody on defense

[WargamesX]

That’s strong language from Berman so I am assuming it’s fact. Most rumors use a lot more open ended language.

Hopefully if that is the case the lottery works in our favor for once.

Depending on if the Warriors get that #1 pick I could see us taking Wiggins contract and keeping both lottery picks (theirs and ours). As assets go if we’re being brutally honest the most valuable assets we have is cap space and picks. If we were to take Wiggins to move up and not keep our own lottery pick I would be legit disappointed. Ball isn’t worth that. Wiggins would be all our available cap space and there would be no way to use that space beyond him to improve the roster.

#1, Wiggins, for Clippers pick & Mavs 2023 pick (Protected 1-10)

Unfortunately we won’t be able to land the #1 pick for just a salary dump and the Clippers and the lesser of the Mavs pick.

There are other teams in the NBA that could outbid us easily.

I admit it’s would be impossible in a normal year except they had no idea how bad revenue was going to be when they took on D’lo’s S&T and then flipped that into Wiggins. They had this very intricate/tight rope plot for adding roleplayers to their core before they resigned Draymond. They S&T Wiggins, have a Trade exception for 17 Mil for Iggy, and had the tax payer mid level.They legit might still say ok and still pay $135 mil in tax penalty, before paying Draymond his new contract. I just don’t see it, and the way they talk they seem half out the draft already. With a expected 40% drop in revenue next year it’s bad business to take on the equivalent of double a NBA’s salary in luxury tax.

All I am saying is they might also reassess their whole plan and move Wiggins contract for cheaper assets. Wiggins 30 mil contract went from Bad to Horrible, this draft isn’t considered strong (even Ball has significant flaws to his game) and if they can get some cheap assets (pick 27, future Mavs pick, Maybe our seconds) so as to not lose Wiggins for nothing they might take that risk. They would still get two draft picks in this salary dump, but the Mavs pick has value just in the fact it goes into effect after the financial crisis is projected to be over.

Other teams can make better offers to send players back, but I don’t think they would, a lot of teams are hoping to make moves in 2021 and the Warriors should be looking to shed salary. Detroit could financially do it too, but they just gave Andre Drummond away for space themselves.... Only the Knicks can absorb Wiggins completely and send the Warriors low cost assets. With that said Wiggins is not a piece you swap for, his contract is long, and will keep us from adding outside the draft until the salary cap rises again (so possibly 2-3 years).

So in theory the Warriors would save about 100 million dollars and then get two picks for it. It’s not as crazy as it seems. For example, Drummond got shipped out for 1 second rounder......

[mpharris36]

How is it easier? Teams are using 2-3 guard lineups nowadays so it's not easier. There is a lot of versatility in the league and you really can't hide guys on defense night in and night out.

one guy is 6'7, the other guy is 6'1...

I wasn't asking for their height I'm asking how is that relative to hiding somebody on defense

thats exactly the point though. Trae Young regardless of who the best player on the court is HAS to guard the opposition PG because he simply can't guard any other position because of his size defeciency.

Take portland for example if you were playing them and really didn't want LaMelo on Lillard or McCollum he could guard Ariza if he wanted to who is basically just a 3/D guy.

Same could be said for Houston...if you didn't want him on Westbrook or Harden you could have him on Danuel House Jr...he has the size of a SF in todays NBA for the most part. So if you had a guy that really was more of a catch and shoot guy you could put LaMelo on them instead of having to guard the point of attack if you really wanted too.

This is not to excuse his bad defense. Its just easier to hide bigger guards because they have more cross matchup versatility. Trae Young can't guard any other position because he is already height deficent at his positoin to begin with. So you are kind of stuck there.

[HEZI]

one guy is 6'7, the other guy is 6'1...

I wasn't asking for their height I'm asking how is that relative to hiding somebody on defense

thats exactly the point though. Trae Young regardless of who the best player on the court is HAS to guard the opposition PG because he simply can't guard any other position because of his size defeciency.

Take portland for example if you were playing them and really didn't want LaMelo on Lillard or McCollum he could guard Ariza if he wanted to who is basically just a 3/D guy.

Same could be said for Houston...if you didn't want him on Westbrook or Harden you could have him on Danuel House Jr...he has the size of a SF in todays NBA for the most part. So if you had a guy that really was more of a catch and shoot guy you could put LaMelo on them instead of having to guard the point of attack if you really wanted too.

This is not to excuse his bad defense. Its just easier to hide bigger guards because they have more cross matchup versatility. Trae Young can't guard any other position because he is already height deficent at his positoin to begin with. So you are kind of stuck there.

You basically just made the point for me

As far as Lamelo, no you can't just stick him on a weaker guard because who says he's going to be playing along side better defenders? I mean if he's playing in the backcourt with RJ Barrett, who is guarding the PG? RJ? If he goes to Chicago, who is guarding the PG, Zach Lavine? If he lands in Phoenix, is Booker guarding opposing PGs?

[knickstape4ever]

If I'm Leon, one of my 1st calls is to the 76ers, they project to be 15.1M—over the luxury tax (assuming uses this year's #'s for 2021, lowering the cap/tax would be even worse for 76ers), to get their 1st rounder in exchange for taking on a contract/lowering their financial burden

at 15.1M over the tax, 76ers get taxed $3.25 for every dollar over the cap; they can lower themselves a tax bracket (to $2.5 tax rate) if they dip under 15M over the cap

Looking at their roster, Mike Scott at 5M (expiring) seems like an expendable piece

If my math/understanding of the cap is correct, at the current tax rate, his 5M contract is = to 16.25M.

-at the $3.25 tax rate, they'd be in-line to pay ~49M in luxury tax.
-by trading Scott—thus moving down a tax bracket—they'd pay ~25M in tax

if this is correct, by trading Soctt, the 76ers would save ~24M

As of right now 76ers are picking 21/22

[WargamesX]

I wasn't asking for their height I'm asking how is that relative to hiding somebody on defense

thats exactly the point though. Trae Young regardless of who the best player on the court is HAS to guard the opposition PG because he simply can't guard any other position because of his size defeciency.

Take portland for example if you were playing them and really didn't want LaMelo on Lillard or McCollum he could guard Ariza if he wanted to who is basically just a 3/D guy.

Same could be said for Houston...if you didn't want him on Westbrook or Harden you could have him on Danuel House Jr...he has the size of a SF in todays NBA for the most part. So if you had a guy that really was more of a catch and shoot guy you could put LaMelo on them instead of having to guard the point of attack if you really wanted too.

This is not to excuse his bad defense. Its just easier to hide bigger guards because they have more cross matchup versatility. Trae Young can't guard any other position because he is already height deficent at his positoin to begin with. So you are kind of stuck there.

You basically just made the point for me

As far as Lamelo, no you can't just stick him on a weaker guard because who says he's going to be playing along side better defenders? I mean if he's playing in the backcourt with RJ Barrett, who is guarding the PG? RJ? If he goes to Chicago, who is guarding the PG, Zach Lavine? If he lands in Phoenix, is Booker guarding opposing PGs?

I think the argument is at 6’7 LaMelo is a point forward

A lineup could be for example:

Frank
RJ
Lamelo
Knox
Mitch

You got to hope both Knox and Frank bring the outside shooting.

[Thepaintismine]

thats exactly the point though. Trae Young regardless of who the best player on the court is HAS to guard the opposition PG because he simply can't guard any other position because of his size defeciency.

Take portland for example if you were playing them and really didn't want LaMelo on Lillard or McCollum he could guard Ariza if he wanted to who is basically just a 3/D guy.

Same could be said for Houston...if you didn't want him on Westbrook or Harden you could have him on Danuel House Jr...he has the size of a SF in todays NBA for the most part. So if you had a guy that really was more of a catch and shoot guy you could put LaMelo on them instead of having to guard the point of attack if you really wanted too.

This is not to excuse his bad defense. Its just easier to hide bigger guards because they have more cross matchup versatility. Trae Young can't guard any other position because he is already height deficent at his positoin to begin with. So you are kind of stuck there.

You basically just made the point for me

As far as Lamelo, no you can't just stick him on a weaker guard because who says he's going to be playing along side better defenders? I mean if he's playing in the backcourt with RJ Barrett, who is guarding the PG? RJ? If he goes to Chicago, who is guarding the PG, Zach Lavine? If he lands in Phoenix, is Booker guarding opposing PGs?

I think the argument is at 6’7 LaMelo is a point forward

A lineup could be for example:

Frank
RJ
Lamelo
Knox
Mitch

You got to hope both Knox and Frank bring the outside shooting.

Give me sum of that positionless BB! RJ can attack well, but I still think we need a bit a PG who can score more, not sure a big Lamelo is that. Knox needs to step up to play there imo. Maybe he does step it up this year.

[knickstape21]

If I'm Leon, one of my 1st calls is to the 76ers, they project to be 15.1M—over the luxury tax (assuming uses this year's #'s for 2021, lowering the cap/tax would be even worse for 76ers), to get their 1st rounder in exchange for taking on a contract/lowering their financial burden

at 15.1M over the tax, 76ers get taxed $3.25 for every dollar over the cap; they can lower themselves a tax bracket (to $2.5 tax rate) if they dip under 15M over the cap

Looking at their roster, Mike Scott at 5M (expiring) seems like an expendable piece

If my math/understanding of the cap is correct, at the current tax rate, his 5M contract is = to 16.25M.

-at the $3.25 tax rate, they'd be in-line to pay ~49M in luxury tax.
-by trading Scott—thus moving down a tax bracket—they'd pay ~25M in tax

if this is correct, by trading Soctt, the 76ers would save ~24M

As of right now 76ers are picking 21/22

This is the type of stuff I like to read. Nice work.

[robillionaire]

If I'm Leon, one of my 1st calls is to the 76ers, they project to be 15.1M—over the luxury tax (assuming uses this year's #'s for 2021, lowering the cap/tax would be even worse for 76ers), to get their 1st rounder in exchange for taking on a contract/lowering their financial burden

at 15.1M over the tax, 76ers get taxed $3.25 for every dollar over the cap; they can lower themselves a tax bracket (to $2.5 tax rate) if they dip under 15M over the cap

Looking at their roster, Mike Scott at 5M (expiring) seems like an expendable piece

If my math/understanding of the cap is correct, at the current tax rate, his 5M contract is = to 16.25M.

-at the $3.25 tax rate, they'd be in-line to pay ~49M in luxury tax.
-by trading Scott—thus moving down a tax bracket—they'd pay ~25M in tax

if this is correct, by trading Soctt, the 76ers would save ~24M

As of right now 76ers are picking 21/22

Sounds good and I would also try to make them give us Korkmaz

[Mecca]

thats exactly the point though. Trae Young regardless of who the best player on the court is HAS to guard the opposition PG because he simply can't guard any other position because of his size defeciency.

Take portland for example if you were playing them and really didn't want LaMelo on Lillard or McCollum he could guard Ariza if he wanted to who is basically just a 3/D guy.

Same could be said for Houston...if you didn't want him on Westbrook or Harden you could have him on Danuel House Jr...he has the size of a SF in todays NBA for the most part. So if you had a guy that really was more of a catch and shoot guy you could put LaMelo on them instead of having to guard the point of attack if you really wanted too.

This is not to excuse his bad defense. Its just easier to hide bigger guards because they have more cross matchup versatility. Trae Young can't guard any other position because he is already height deficent at his positoin to begin with. So you are kind of stuck there.

You basically just made the point for me

As far as Lamelo, no you can't just stick him on a weaker guard because who says he's going to be playing along side better defenders? I mean if he's playing in the backcourt with RJ Barrett, who is guarding the PG? RJ? If he goes to Chicago, who is guarding the PG, Zach Lavine? If he lands in Phoenix, is Booker guarding opposing PGs?

I think the argument is at 6’7 LaMelo is a point forward

A lineup could be for example:

Frank
RJ
Lamelo
Knox
Mitch

You got to hope both Knox and Frank bring the outside shooting.

Lol no way. He’s so weak right now he can’t guard 2’s let alone 3’s

[thebuzzardman]

You basically just made the point for me

As far as Lamelo, no you can't just stick him on a weaker guard because who says he's going to be playing along side better defenders? I mean if he's playing in the backcourt with RJ Barrett, who is guarding the PG? RJ? If he goes to Chicago, who is guarding the PG, Zach Lavine? If he lands in Phoenix, is Booker guarding opposing PGs?

I think the argument is at 6’7 LaMelo is a point forward

A lineup could be for example:

Frank
RJ
Lamelo
Knox
Mitch

You got to hope both Knox and Frank bring the outside shooting.

Lol no way. He’s so weak right now he can’t guard 2’s let alone 3’s

Other than exploring options in the draft or via a trade, if LaMelo is drafted, I say the Knicks keep Frank as well, but start LaMelo at PG.

Frank has the sort of low maintenance personality and fit in with the team mentality towards playing that he could be a swiss army bench guy, backing up anything from 1,2 to 3, depending on what the Knicks are looking to do, who the other backups are, if Frank's shot progress or not, etc.
In the above scenario, there's a few extra minutes for his continued basketball development.

But more to the point, LaMelo starts, but most rookies aren't ready for 32 mpg. Play LaMelo 28 mpg, and have Frank available for stretches where LaMelo is getting murdered on defense.
There would have to be realistic hope that LaMelo improves on defense to "average" or "just below average" over time.

I like Frank, warts and all. But if they draft Halliburton, I could see keeping DSJr as the bench PG, IF last year was a fluke. If LaMelo, I'd go with Frank as the backup.

[mpharris36]

I wasn't asking for their height I'm asking how is that relative to hiding somebody on defense

thats exactly the point though. Trae Young regardless of who the best player on the court is HAS to guard the opposition PG because he simply can't guard any other position because of his size defeciency.

Take portland for example if you were playing them and really didn't want LaMelo on Lillard or McCollum he could guard Ariza if he wanted to who is basically just a 3/D guy.

Same could be said for Houston...if you didn't want him on Westbrook or Harden you could have him on Danuel House Jr...he has the size of a SF in todays NBA for the most part. So if you had a guy that really was more of a catch and shoot guy you could put LaMelo on them instead of having to guard the point of attack if you really wanted too.

This is not to excuse his bad defense. Its just easier to hide bigger guards because they have more cross matchup versatility. Trae Young can't guard any other position because he is already height deficent at his positoin to begin with. So you are kind of stuck there.

You basically just made the point for me

As far as Lamelo, no you can't just stick him on a weaker guard because who says he's going to be playing along side better defenders? I mean if he's playing in the backcourt with RJ Barrett, who is guarding the PG? RJ? If he goes to Chicago, who is guarding the PG, Zach Lavine? If he lands in Phoenix, is Booker guarding opposing PGs?

He will be playing alonside frank

but in all seriousness it wasn't to suggest this is a full time option. The point was he has a little more defensive versatility then trae...that is not saying much at all but its a little is better than none.

[malik959]

There is no such thing as hiding somebody on defense. How do you hide Doncic on defense? He's not a good defender at the 2 or 3, size means nothing when he can't stay in front of his man. Just like you can't hide RJ on defense by having him defend guards, he can't, so the same thing with Lamelo, if he can't guard guards then there is no hiding him.

But anyways, it would be foolish to trade up for him when we didn't attempt to trade up for players who are better than him

that I agree with.

However, its a lot easier to hide a guy on defense that can potentially guard multiple positions. Usually teams don't have really good offensive players at there 1-3 positions.

Trae Young because of his diminutive size still has to guard PG's because he is not big enough to guard 2 guards. LaMelo in theory could defend the weaker offensive player, That is what I mean by "hiding" him.

How is it easier? Teams are using 2-3 guard lineups nowadays so it's not easier. There is a lot of versatility in the league and you really can't hide guys on defense night in and night out.

So if we play Washington he guards????? Or if we play Houston he guards??????? Or if we play Boston he guards?????? Or if we play the Warriors he guards?????? What about Portland?????? Sacramento?????? Utah????? That's a total of 18 games right there where who ever he's guarding it puts us at a disadvantage because he can't stop either guard on the team.

[3toheadmelo]

I’ll be happy if we come out of this draft with Paul Reed and Karim Mane with our late first and second rounder.

Count me in on the Paul reed bandwagon. Paul Reed and Karim Mane would be awesome

If we don’t land a PG in the draft or FA we can explore putting in RJ at the 1 similar with what the Heat did with Winslow.

Karim Mane will be good insurance in case we have to let go of Frank as he could also be paired with RJ at the backcourt.

I can see both Paul Reed and Karim Mane being very versatile defenders and can guard multiple positions given their length.

Karim Mane
Jalen Green
RJ Barrett
Paul Reed
James Wiseman

[thebuzzardman]

Watch on YouTube

This guy is doing some interesting dot connecting around agents and their ties to LaMelo, Rose and Perry.

Might be one of the reasons Perry is being retained.

[malik959]

He’s this generation’s Jkidd. He’ll be better than Trae, maybe I’m overreacting a little bit when it comes to him being better than luka but I’m that high on LaMelo.

Maybe Kidd/Jason Williams, minus Williams jumper

I truly believe Kidd is a lofty comparison. He was dynamic. A triple double threat at his peak. If we draft Ball I hope I’m wrong about him but I think he’s definitely a product of overhyped, sensationalized social media with a loud mouth dad who is overstating how good he is. To have such poor stats in Australia is concerning to me. His defense has always been lacking too. He’s been green lit his entire life to take deep bad shots too. He hasn’t earned that respect with his percentages.

Kidd was a top 5 defender in this league, can we please stop with this comparison. Also Kidd could take anyone, ANYONE off the dribble and had the strength to back his opponents down and was not afraid of contact.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[Signature NYK]

If feel like were definitely drafting Lamelo. Whether it but after a trade up or after winning the lottery or after he essentially refuses to meet with other teams at all lol

[Signature NYK]

That’s strong language from Berman so I am assuming it’s fact. Most rumors use a lot more open ended language.

Hopefully if that is the case the lottery works in our favor for once.

Depending on if the Warriors get that #1 pick I could see us taking Wiggins contract and keeping both lottery picks (theirs and ours). As assets go if we’re being brutally honest the most valuable assets we have is cap space and picks. If we were to take Wiggins to move up and not keep our own lottery pick I would be legit disappointed. Ball isn’t worth that. Wiggins would be all our available cap space and there would be no way to use that space beyond him to improve the roster.

#1, Wiggins, for Clippers pick & Mavs 2023 pick (Protected 1-10)

I think we'd have to give up our Lotto pick to replace the Mav's Pick. And Honestly i'd do it.

Wiggins is still young and athletic with potential and relieves some of the load offensively from Melo and RJ

We're not gonna be players in FA until we start winning so Wiggins doesnt hurt us. Warriors save a boatload of capsapace as they pursue Giannis while still securing a lotta pick.

I'd also look to trade Randle and maybe Knox for Kevin Love. Veteran Stretch 4 and again were not players in FA rn so.
Sign Woods

LaMelo/DSJ
Wiggins/Frank/Trier
RJ/Dot
Love/Woods
Mitch/Taj


Could be a Playoff team in the East lol