2020 NBA Draft II

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Catchall
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#881 » by Catchall » Sun May 24, 2020 11:06 pm

The-Power wrote:
eminence wrote:Why is Paul Reed projected in the 2nd a lot of places? I look at that guy and see a potential stud, I think I might give him a later lotto grade.

I have him as a late lottery pick myself. I guess it depends on how much you buy into his defense and whether or not you care about prospects with limited offensive ceilings.


It's a positional question with him. If he can't hit the 3-ball, he's likely to be a backup defensive 4/5 like Kevon Looney or Moe Harkless, even though he's more skilled than both those guys. Now that said, people are excited about Brandon Clarke and he has the same question marks.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#882 » by King Ken » Sun May 24, 2020 11:11 pm

karkinos wrote:
D3ko wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Top players in the league tend to be bigger on average. It’s about finding that happy medium between size and skill. You can have a ton of skill but not enough size and your impact has a relatively low ceiling (Trae Young), whereas a lot of size and a little skill can have a lot of impact (i.e. Mitchell Robinson).

:crazy: :crazy: Crazy example.

So Robinson has more impact than an starter All Star PG , probably the best PG young in the league

....
hawks are 20-47

trae young is far from the best pg in the league.

Awful post, 2008-09 OKC had Westbrook and Durant and only won 23 games. I guess those two have no impact as well. Stupid ass posting going on and it needs to stop this minute
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#883 » by karkinos » Sun May 24, 2020 11:23 pm

At that time they were not best-in-the-league good. I don't think that's debatable. Did they have potential? Absolutely, and they grew into it.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#884 » by King Ken » Sun May 24, 2020 11:35 pm

karkinos wrote:At that time they were not best-in-the-league good. I don't think that's debatable. Did they have potential? Absolutely, and they grew into it.

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23 wins. Keep that same energy. Please don't come in here posting hot garbage.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#885 » by karkinos » Sun May 24, 2020 11:53 pm

King Ken wrote:
karkinos wrote:At that time they were not best-in-the-league good. I don't think that's debatable. Did they have potential? Absolutely, and they grew into it.

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23 wins. Keep that same energy. Please don't come in here posting hot garbage.
I don't know why you are so triggered without really trying to understand the message I was conveying but rather focusing on me using a fact that is true.

I'm not saying he's a bad point guard. I'm saying he has a journey ahead of him.

He is not the best point guard NOW. His win total will be used against him.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#886 » by getrichordie » Mon May 25, 2020 12:01 am

King Ken wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Top players in the league tend to be bigger on average. It’s about finding that happy medium between size and skill. You can have a ton of skill but not enough size and your impact has a relatively low ceiling (Trae Young), whereas a lot of size and a little skill can have a lot of impact (i.e. Mitchell Robinson).

Trae Young has a lot of impact and a lot more than Mitchell Robinson unless you are talking just defense.


Robinson is also impactful offensively (not near as much as TY, though). He's probably going to break FG% record. Simply trying to state that the threshold for good impact is a lot lower for bigger players than it is for smaller players.

2019-20

Robinson (22 y.o.)

o-pipm = 0.17 (144 ortg)
d-pipm = 1.76 (107 drtg)
total = 1.93 (+37 rtg)

Young (21.8 y.o.)

o-pipm = 4.97 (114 ortg)
d-pipm = -3.63 (117 drtg)
total = 1.33 (-3 rtg)
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#887 » by King Ken » Mon May 25, 2020 12:47 am

getrichordie wrote:
King Ken wrote:
getrichordie wrote:Top players in the league tend to be bigger on average. It’s about finding that happy medium between size and skill. You can have a ton of skill but not enough size and your impact has a relatively low ceiling (Trae Young), whereas a lot of size and a little skill can have a lot of impact (i.e. Mitchell Robinson).

Trae Young has a lot of impact and a lot more than Mitchell Robinson unless you are talking just defense.


Robinson is also impactful offensively (not near as much as TY, though). He's probably going to break FG% record. Simply trying to state that the threshold for good impact is a lot lower for bigger players than it is for smaller players.

2019-20

Robinson (22 y.o.)

o-pipm = 0.17 (144 ortg)
d-pipm = 1.76 (107 drtg)
total = 1.93 (+37 rtg)

Young (21.8 y.o.)

o-pipm = 4.97 (114 ortg)
d-pipm = -3.63 (117 drtg)
total = 1.33 (-3 rtg)

Pipm???? Do you know how many analytics we can use to prove that Trae Young on offense is worth more than that entire Knickerbocker franchise. Please, cut it out.

Trae Young offensive RAPTOR is 7.1

Do you know combine offensive RAPTOR for qualifying Knicks. -22.9

Man, get the hell out of here with that nonsense oh

Trae Young is one of the most valuable players in the NBA.

Robinson is not even a legit starter.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#888 » by King Ken » Mon May 25, 2020 12:55 am

karkinos wrote:
King Ken wrote:
karkinos wrote:At that time they were not best-in-the-league good. I don't think that's debatable. Did they have potential? Absolutely, and they grew into it.

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23 wins. Keep that same energy. Please don't come in here posting hot garbage.
I don't know why you are so triggered without really trying to understand the message I was conveying but rather focusing on me using a fact that is true.

I'm not saying he's a bad point guard. I'm saying he has a journey ahead of him.

He is not the best point guard NOW. His win total will be used against him.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

He's not on a team capable of being a winning team. Why should wins be held against him?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#889 » by karkinos » Mon May 25, 2020 1:32 am

King Ken wrote:
karkinos wrote:
King Ken wrote:23 wins. Keep that same energy. Please don't come in here posting hot garbage.
I don't know why you are so triggered without really trying to understand the message I was conveying but rather focusing on me using a fact that is true.

I'm not saying he's a bad point guard. I'm saying he has a journey ahead of him.

He is not the best point guard NOW. His win total will be used against him.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

He's not on a team capable of being a winning team. Why should wins be held against him?
I don't know why you think turning the narrative of him into being a victim is going to prove any kind of point.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#890 » by getrichordie » Mon May 25, 2020 1:36 am

karkinos wrote:
King Ken wrote:
karkinos wrote:I don't know why you are so triggered without really trying to understand the message I was conveying but rather focusing on me using a fact that is true.

I'm not saying he's a bad point guard. I'm saying he has a journey ahead of him.

He is not the best point guard NOW. His win total will be used against him.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

He's not on a team capable of being a winning team. Why should wins be held against him?
I don't know why you think turning the narrative of him into being a victim is going to prove any kind of point.

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No one is saying Young is a victim here. But you don't hold wins against a young and still developing Hawks team. Young is not even 22 yet.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#891 » by karkinos » Mon May 25, 2020 1:51 am

It's about context. How can wins not be important when evaluating candidacy for best pg in the game? He has the potential, yes. But right now he is not in that conversation for current best pgs.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#892 » by King Ken » Mon May 25, 2020 4:26 am

karkinos wrote:It's about context. How can wins not be important when evaluating candidacy for best pg in the game? He has the potential, yes. But right now he is not in that conversation for current best pgs.

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Best PG in the game and impactful are two completely different things
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#893 » by Catchall » Mon May 25, 2020 4:38 am

Trae Young isn't the best PG in the game, so you can toss out that discussion. Trae's probably top 5 - 7 depending on your view of Ja Morant--Steph, Dame, Kyrie, Kemba, Ja for me, then debate CP3, Lowry and Trae.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#894 » by clyde21 » Mon May 25, 2020 5:49 am

King Ken wrote:
karkinos wrote:It's about context. How can wins not be important when evaluating candidacy for best pg in the game? He has the potential, yes. But right now he is not in that conversation for current best pgs.

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Best PG in the game and impactful are two completely different things


lol wut? come on dude...on both accounts.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#895 » by No-Man » Mon May 25, 2020 8:34 am

Catchall wrote:Trae Young isn't the best PG in the game, so you can toss out that discussion. Trae's probably top 5 - 7 depending on your view of Ja Morant--Steph, Dame, Kyrie, Kemba, Ja for me, then debate CP3, Lowry and Trae.

Trae is below Steph and Dame clearly, same tier as CP3, Kyrie and Lowry, he is 10000% top6, and more towards 3rd than 6th imo
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#896 » by The-Power » Mon May 25, 2020 9:58 am

shakes0 wrote:as apparently the only DePaul grad/fan on this board I feel like his question is for me. I was really high on Reed early, but I was a little disappointed in his play towards the end of the year. He was dominant early on and was getting to just about any spot he wanted with the ball in the offensive zone. And hitting shots from all those places. But, when the conference season heated up he was no longer getting to those spots, at least not nearly as often.

I still see him as a possible first round pick, but I don't think he's lotto talent anymore.

To be honest, I don't care nearly as much about his offense as I care about his defense. I believe he could become a positive on offense (albeit not a large positive) but I'm buying his stock because of defense. He's a bit of a light version of Jonathan Isaac to me. What are your thoughts on his defense?

I believe he has great tools on that end – incredibly disruptive, a great defensive rebounder, potential multi-positional defender – but I wondered sometimes how consistent his effort level will be. He was active on defense, no doubt, but he didn't always appear to have the dog in him to dominate just with his defense. What are your thoughts and do you believe he'll be happy in the NBA with being a 4th option on offense who plays his heart out on defense? That's perhaps my greatest concern right now.

If he's fine playing like Isaac then I'm taking him with a late-lottery/mid-first pick if I was in charge of a low-level/borderline playoff team that seeks to solidify its 4-5-rotation with someone who defends (ideally setting the tone), rebounds, allows some line-up versatility and cannot be disregarded on offense by opposing teams.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#897 » by No-Man » Mon May 25, 2020 10:48 am

I think his tools are good but he is raw and he has a ton of wasted movement on defense, he would be schooled at the moment by NBA guys on that end

He is an interesting project but kinda too raw for his age and I don't buy much on offense, more of a 2nd round bet in my opinion
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#898 » by Nazrmohamed » Mon May 25, 2020 1:54 pm

Catchall wrote:Trae Young isn't the best PG in the game, so you can toss out that discussion. Trae's probably top 5 - 7 depending on your view of Ja Morant--Steph, Dame, Kyrie, Kemba, Ja for me, then debate CP3, Lowry and Trae.


Is Luka listed as a PG or point forward, cuz hes gotta be in there. Also what about a guy like DeAaron Fox? Where do those guys fit in.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#899 » by King Ken » Mon May 25, 2020 2:50 pm

Fischella wrote:
Catchall wrote:Trae Young isn't the best PG in the game, so you can toss out that discussion. Trae's probably top 5 - 7 depending on your view of Ja Morant--Steph, Dame, Kyrie, Kemba, Ja for me, then debate CP3, Lowry and Trae.

Trae is below Steph and Dame clearly, same tier as CP3, Kyrie and Lowry, he is 10000% top6, and more towards 3rd than 6th imo

Exactly

Steph and Dame
Trae, CP3, Kyrie, Kemba, and Lowry are all in the same 2nd tier
Ja is not in the 2nd tier yet. That's not to take away from his game as a rookie. He's been phenomenal and having a much better rookie year than any PG I can remember.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#900 » by King Ken » Mon May 25, 2020 2:52 pm

Nazrmohamed wrote:
Catchall wrote:Trae Young isn't the best PG in the game, so you can toss out that discussion. Trae's probably top 5 - 7 depending on your view of Ja Morant--Steph, Dame, Kyrie, Kemba, Ja for me, then debate CP3, Lowry and Trae.


Is Luka listed as a PG or point forward, cuz hes gotta be in there. Also what about a guy like DeAaron Fox? Where do those guys fit in.

Luka is a sticky area. You add him, you add LeBron and Harden as well. Those guys tend to never guard PGs. So I see Luka as a point forward like Bron. Harden is a combo guard

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