2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[TheGreenArrow]

All this talk about obi is making me sick.

If we do end up drafting obi we should all say bye bye to Mitch because him and obi don’t fit together at all.

[HighRyzer83]

Did you even watch the video? Paid attention to it? It took me 10 seconds to realize this was nonsense. Him faking a handoff and going into a drive has nothing to do with poor lateral movement. In fact he's had success doing that play countless times, there's plenty evidence of it. The few times the defender didn't bite isn't an example of poor lateral movement. This is terrible assessment whoever created that video. If you go to Obi's strengths you will find examples of that very same play working when the defender bites on the fake.

Watch on YouTube

weaknesses here start at 5:30

Him not being strong enough to defend Azibuike on the inside has nothing to do with being stiff. Azibuike is strong as a bull and a force inside and he would foul out a guy like Mitchell Robinson by halftime. Nobody at the 4 is going to be giving Obi those type of problems in the NBA. If you play him full time at the 5 he can run into those issues but if you play him along side a shotblocker he wont struggle in those situation. The other part of his weakness was he gambles for steals. Ok? And? Like I said before, when you go watch his success in those situations when he's grabbing pick 6 type of steals in transition it's looked at as a positive. Again, none of what you are talking about has been highlighted though.

Mitch would eat azibuike for lunch brah. bones and all. Mitch hangs with embid, azibuike strong for college folk he's proven nothing at the pro level yet.

[Thugger HBC]

I would still take Melo. He made the playoffs in his first 10 years (3 years including the knicks as well). For some of his faults and the negative sh*t he took here...he was still an amazing player. He nearly could have been the MVP of the league in the 2012-13 season.

But you aren't too far off with the above assessment because there probably isn't another player that I would either but that is also a knock of our horrible franchise for the past 20 years.

I agree. I was with intent to knock any player, but rather speaking on the dynamic of todays NBA. The game has changed since those years.

It is funny if you think about it...the 2012-13 knicks were actually ahead of the times. They played Melo as the small ball 4 (he was nearly unguardable there). They played multiple ball handlers and shot a ton of 3's. We even played Copeland as a small ball 5 in some lineups . Then for some reason we went back to the stone ages with playing lineups with zero spacing/shooting.

They were in that mix, just unsustainable due to age and roster cap flexibility. We wound up back in the stone age primarily because we hired stone age guys. Hi Phil. Hi Perry.

[mpharris36]

Obi is primarily looked down upon due to his age, but I do feel he's stepping on the court and contributing immediately wherever he goes.

on one side of the ball yes. I do think he probably comes in right away as the best scorer out of all the potential draft picks. It just depends on what you are looking for and if you are looking for immediate return on your pick.

For example someone like Poku could play 4 years at college and come out at the same age as Obi is right now...which is crazy

[Thugger HBC]

All this talk about obi is making me sick.

If we do end up drafting obi we should all say bye bye to Mitch because him and obi don’t fit together at all.

I honestly dont trust Mitch being a full time starter at this point, so the draft shouldnt be focused on whether he is here or not.

[mpharris36]

I agree. I was with intent to knock any player, but rather speaking on the dynamic of todays NBA. The game has changed since those years.

It is funny if you think about it...the 2012-13 knicks were actually ahead of the times. They played Melo as the small ball 4 (he was nearly unguardable there). They played multiple ball handlers and shot a ton of 3's. We even played Copeland as a small ball 5 in some lineups . Then for some reason we went back to the stone ages with playing lineups with zero spacing/shooting.

They were in that mix, just unsustainable due to age and roster cap flexibility. We wound up back in the stone age primarily because we hired stone age guys. Hi Phil. Hi Perry.

it did start with Glen Grunwald. He made a lot of short term moves that killed us in the long term.

The obvious one being picking up billups option to then amnesty him to S&T for Tyson Chandler (rather than using it on Amare) and then freeing up all that cap space to get a true 2nd star next to Melo.

Then this beauty...

July 10, 2013: Traded Marcus Camby, Steve Novak, Quentin Richardson, a 2014 2nd round draft pick (Xavier Thames was later selected), a 2016 1st round draft pick (Jakob Pöltl was later selected) and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Jonah Bolden was later selected) to the Toronto Raptors for Andrea Bargnani.

[TheGreenArrow]

All this talk about obi is making me sick.

If we do end up drafting obi we should all say bye bye to Mitch because him and obi don’t fit together at all.

I honestly dont trust Mitch being a full time starter at this point, so the draft shouldnt be focused on whether he is here or not.

I agree it’s why wiseman is #2 on my board behind LaMelo.

I’d also wouldn’t be opposed to trading Mitch to move up and secure LaMelo.

Honestly next years pick is the only asset that should be completely off limits.

[F N 11]

Knicks don’t need just another guy. Knicks need a playmaker. Lamelo might be flawed but every time we had a guy who can create we looked like an actual nba team.

[Thugger HBC]

It is funny if you think about it...the 2012-13 knicks were actually ahead of the times. They played Melo as the small ball 4 (he was nearly unguardable there). They played multiple ball handlers and shot a ton of 3's. We even played Copeland as a small ball 5 in some lineups . Then for some reason we went back to the stone ages with playing lineups with zero spacing/shooting.

They were in that mix, just unsustainable due to age and roster cap flexibility. We wound up back in the stone age primarily because we hired stone age guys. Hi Phil. Hi Perry.

it did start with Glen Grunwald. He made a lot of short term moves that killed us in the long term.

The obvious one being picking up billups option to then amnesty him to S&T for Tyson Chandler (rather than using it on Amare) and then freeing up all that cap space to get a true 2nd star next to Melo.

Then this beauty...

July 10, 2013: Traded Marcus Camby, Steve Novak, Quentin Richardson, a 2014 2nd round draft pick (Xavier Thames was later selected), a 2016 1st round draft pick (Jakob Pöltl was later selected) and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Jonah Bolden was later selected) to the Toronto Raptors for Andrea Bargnani.

Didnt mean to take it this far, but it's hard to get on Grunwald prior to the Bargs trade. Walsh picked up Billups option btw, and let's be honest, anyone would have gotten killed if they used the amnesty on a player owed 80 mil after his 1st year. Funny tho, the Tyson deal wasnt frowned upon when it happened. He paid dividends when healthy, especially on defense.

[HEZI]

Watch on YouTube

weaknesses here start at 5:30

Him not being strong enough to defend Azibuike on the inside has nothing to do with being stiff. Azibuike is strong as a bull and a force inside and he would foul out a guy like Mitchell Robinson by halftime. Nobody at the 4 is going to be giving Obi those type of problems in the NBA. If you play him full time at the 5 he can run into those issues but if you play him along side a shotblocker he wont struggle in those situation. The other part of his weakness was he gambles for steals. Ok? And? Like I said before, when you go watch his success in those situations when he's grabbing pick 6 type of steals in transition it's looked at as a positive. Again, none of what you are talking about has been highlighted though.

Mitch would eat azibuike for lunch brah. bones and all. Mitch hangs with embid, azibuike strong for college folk he's proven nothing at the pro level yet.

Mitchell Robinson cannot guard Embiid. Mitchell Robinson used to get abused in practice by Enes Kanter. Robinson can only guard guys with limited scoring ability like Deandre Jordan and Jarrett Allen and those types. Any big with any sort of offensive skills has given him trouble.

[knickstape21]

Knicks don’t need just another guy. Knicks need a playmaker. Lamelo might be flawed but every time we had a guy who can create we looked like an actual nba team.

Thinking about the opportunities Ball would create for Robinson. Incredible. Throw some snipers/playmakers around the arc and watch the engine go.

[HEZI]

we clearly aren't seeing the same thing. His close outs are out of control, he losses balance pretty easily because he is top heavy and doesn't have a good base (skinny legs). He also doesn't guard P&R well because he struggles with lateral movemnt. Those are obvious areas of weaknesses.

I have highlighted I think he can score (probably at all 3 levels)...plays above the rim. And he isn't a black hole with the ball. He moves the bal well and can make the extra pass pretty nicely for a big.

From what you are suggesting he is a can't miss prospect if you think he has no weaknesses. That we aren't aligned with.

Never said he has no weaknesses but it's pretty obvious we aren't seeing the same thing

curious, what do you think his weakness are?

Rebounding is one of the biggest issues I have with him, he just doesn't like to fight inside for boards. Sometimes he will stand and watch. There are lapses defensively, pick and roll sometimes where he gets caught watching his man and not the ball or not rotating correctly. Needs to stay grounded on the pump fake, you touched on that earlier about him biting hard on fakes at times so he's gotta do a better job of staying grounded. For those reasons I don't trust him as a full time starter at the 5, more like a small ball 5 during some points in the game but I'd look to pair him with a shot blocking 5 who's more of a rebounder and rim protector ideally.

[mpharris36]

Never said he has no weaknesses but it's pretty obvious we aren't seeing the same thing

curious, what do you think his weakness are?

Rebounding is one of the biggest issues I have with him, he just doesn't like to fight inside for boards. Sometimes he will stand and watch. There are lapses defensively, pick and roll sometimes where he gets caught watching his man and not the ball or not rotating correctly. Needs to stay grounded on the pump fake, you touched on that earlier about him biting hard on fakes at times so he's gotta do a better job of staying grounded. For those reasons I don't trust him as a full time starter at the 5, more like a small ball 5 during some points in the game but I'd look to pair him with a shot blocking 5 who's more of a rebounder and rim protector ideally.

got it. You don't have any concerns about him guarding in space as that is what the 4 position has become in the NBA?

[HEZI]

curious, what do you think his weakness are?

Rebounding is one of the biggest issues I have with him, he just doesn't like to fight inside for boards. Sometimes he will stand and watch. There are lapses defensively, pick and roll sometimes where he gets caught watching his man and not the ball or not rotating correctly. Needs to stay grounded on the pump fake, you touched on that earlier about him biting hard on fakes at times so he's gotta do a better job of staying grounded. For those reasons I don't trust him as a full time starter at the 5, more like a small ball 5 during some points in the game but I'd look to pair him with a shot blocking 5 who's more of a rebounder and rim protector ideally.

got it. You don't have any concerns about him guarding in space as that is what the 4 position has become in the NBA?

Not enough to not draft him. He's going to be a rookie that needs to work on a lot of things once transitioned to the next level but you can absolutely build a competitive winning team with Obi in the starting lineup if you really wanted to.

[Thugger HBC]

I would like to see some of you guys draft boards. I know for me, I'm not passing on any top talent due to his defense, until his offensive capability is suspect as well.

[smw6230]

Read on Twitter

Can’t wait to see him light up the garden.

Poll:

1. Lamelo
2. Other (I do not want a generational PG talent)

Speaking of, its probably already been asked but....

Better prospect Ja Morant or LaMelo Ball?

Keep in mind Ja wasn't on the NBA radar after his freshman campaign.

[gr3en]

https://dailyknicks.com/2020/05/20/knicks-draft-zeke-nnaji-scheduled-virtual-interview/

Looks like we may be looking at Zeke Nnaji at 27 or 38?

Watch on YouTube

[robillionaire]

https://dailyknicks.com/2020/05/20/knicks-draft-zeke-nnaji-scheduled-virtual-interview/

Looks like we may be looking at Zeke Nnaji at 27 or 38?

Watch on YouTube

I was just watching footage of him the other day. Interesting that the knicks are checking out bigs

[HarthorneWingo]

Knicks don’t need just another guy. Knicks need a playmaker. Lamelo might be flawed but every time we had a guy who can create we looked like an actual nba team.

Like when Payton was on the court?

[BLACKFEET 2010]

https://dailyknicks.com/2020/05/20/knicks-draft-zeke-nnaji-scheduled-virtual-interview/

Looks like we may be looking at Zeke Nnaji at 27 or 38?

Watch on YouTube

No moar Arizona big men!!!