Air Apparent wrote:Rust_Cohle wrote:Air Apparent wrote:cristiano ronaldo has dominated all 3 different major leagues in europe and has won 2 national trophies with sub-par teammates comparatively to the competition (internationally speaking, not domestically)
along with getting robbed of one ballon d'or
most of those guys on the list i assume played in one system in one league on one team their entire careers
His sub par teammates won a euro final without him, won a nations league final when he played like crap and have gone their last 12 matches that didn’t feature Ronaldo without a loss. Hell, Pepe even in Ronaldo’s eyes was the best euro player in 2016. And you could argue Ronaldo stole a ballon d’or in 2013.
He’s a phenomenal player but he went to Juventus who had won the league 7 years in a row. Madrid only won 2 la ligas in 9 years but their CL campaigns were amazing.
And most people (most of his peers and managers) tend to rate Messi higher overall although Ronaldo’s resume is nothing to scoff at.
aite so boom...
they didnt win a euro without him, he carried that team, his teammates willed that final win as underdogs with nothing to lose, that doesn't make them superior teammates lmao, anything can happen in a single game like that with that sort of pressure, its like a game 7, anything can happen (it was a 1-0 scoreline they barely won), of course as a team they were good as a unit, but he was still playing with a bunch of misfits and young players who had no business winning the whole thing, especially against competition like france
the 2nd best player was more likely quaresma (a flop in every major league in europe) or the young kid renato sanches, his team was clearly sub-par
you seriously gonna argue pepe was the best player for portugal in 2016? pepe hasnt been the best player for any team at any stage of his career in his life, ronaldo probably said that in a leadership role or something in the locker room, or being a defensive anchor, since he was the only top tier defender they had
sure you could argue that ronaldo stole one, but i could also argue that messi stole 2-3 in total, 2010 being one of the most blatant of all robberies, he had no business getting that award, and the fact that all 3 top vote-getters were barca players lol, how can u have 3 players in the top3 votes for balon dor on the same team?
thats like jordan playing with the 2nd and 3rd mvp vote-getters in the same season as his own mvp season, that makes no sense and means he probably isn't as goat as everyone props him up to be, messi is a legend but at the end of the day he has always been a system player who benefitted from an offense that produced goal-scoring opportunities at an extremely high rate, david villa his striking partner for those dominant barca teams could've been replaced by antonio di nitale who was, at that same time scoring 28-29 goals a season in serie A for udinese with no help, he would score 40 as well in barca/la liga in that situation if he gets 30 more shots a game inside the box
whereas ronaldo scoring at that high of a clip is more impressive after playing scoring and dominating as a winger most of his career then having to play a different position because of madrids style of play and personnel in comparison. he has played on 4 different teams in different roles and dominated, messi has never been the barca messi outside of barca, aside from the youth argentina team
most Argentinians don't even respect messi higher than maradona, you wanna talk about pepe carrying ronaldo lol, what about di maria actually carrying messi to the wc final, but everyone conveniently falls back to the argument "oh he was creating for others, he was assisting" bla bla
fam, if you score 40-50 goals a season we don't want you to assist, your job is to score hattricks, but manz can't do **** in copa year after year and world cup, in a different situation with some really talented teammates, you probably not THAT legendary then.
everyone acts like he was playing with scrubs while saying ronaldos teammates were good? lool, those teams were good, so messi single-handedly can beat an entire team and lead them to finals but cant do it in the final? messi shouldve been the piece to take them over the top, but there is more than enough evidence by now that he just doesn't know how to function outside of a barca type system, he has horrible positioning and looks completely clueless out there, man literally had to retire temporarily from embarrassment
lol im a serie a fan, juve has won the league mostly because the other teams have been completely depleted and mismanaged, but the past 2 seasons competition is back up with inter and napoli and roma, juve is actually facing threats now, that's the situation ronaldo moved into and joined, he didnt join the same juve as those prior seasons where they were winning easily by like 30 pt leads in the standings
he is literally single-handedly saving many of their games half the time these days, and is still among the top of the league in scoring at his age
you dont have to agree with him being the goat, but people discredit him wayyyyy too much and make excuses for messi's shortcomings like its a joke - and i dont even like hating on messi because he is a legend but sometimes the ronaldo slander gotta make you put things in perspective and play dirty too
it probably stings a little more for messi fans that ronaldo has 2 national trophies at the end of the day with **** teams than Argentina has had with messi with wayyy more opportunities in copa and world cup
ironically the one loss that you could argue for is that all-time great portugal team (led by figo) that lost to greece in the final though he was as just a teenager, but he shouldve won that, he otherwise had a great tournament
though people would discredit that as well for him, you dont wanna give him credit when his team is **** and they win, and you wouldnt have probably given him credit for a possible greece victory too since his team was stacked - as if players like pele didnt have stacked teams winning those world cups, or messi's accolades based on the fact that his teams in barca was stacked with a generational spanish team that won without messi as well
/rant
Sorry but you are way off.
Quarasma wasn’t anything close to the second best
Player for Portugal during that euro 2016, they only won 2 games in 90 minutes, Ronaldo literally had 3 good games max the entire tourney.
Ronaldo himself said Pepe deserved player of the tournament:
https://www.fotmob.com/news/12qnpk7ov0lgw1jqg25zp72vrs-ronaldo%3A-pepe-was-the-best-player-at-the-euros%2C-not-griezmannWanna go deeper into the metrics?
-Whole career numbers:
Messi:
-Mins played: 69,919
-Goals: 699
-Mins per goal: 100.0
-Assists: 309
-Mins per assist: 226.3
-G+A: 1,008
-Mins per G+A: 69.4
CR7:
-Mins played: 81,191
-Goals: 726
-Mins per goal: 111.8
-Assists: 257
-Mins per assist: 315.9
-G+A: 983
-Mins per G+A: 82.6
-Lionel Messi could play 8000 minutes of football (88 full games), and score ZERO (0) goals, and still have a better goal per game ratio than CR7 currently has.
-That’s 1 and a half seasons.
Lionel Messi could play 27,500 minutes of football (305 full games), and get ZERO (0) assists, and still have a better assist per game ratio than CR7 currently has.
-That’s basically 6 seasons worth of games.
People like to bring up the two international trophies but Portugal has the easiest bracket in the euros over the last 25 years in regards to the strength of teams faced. They have won their last TWELVE games without him. He has never won player of the tournament in any of their title winning tournaments...yet he has “sub par” teammates. When he plays like crap his team’s can still win on the biggest stage. He’s their best player, the greatest CL player of all time, but he’s not the end all be all the way Messi has to be Argentina to have a chance.
Messi misses 3 games and Argentina is on the cusp of not even qualifying for the World Cup until he comes back to seal it with a hat trick.
National team numbers:
Messi
-Mins per goal: 163.5
-Mins per assists: 245.3
-Mins per G/A: 98.1
CR7
-Mins per goal: 131.4
-Mins per assists: 315.9
-Mins per G/A: 95.22
-% of international goals that are against a top 50 FIFA ranked nation:
Messi: 82%
Ronaldo: 29%
-A big difference.
We can also look at their numbers from Major International tournaments only:
Messi:
-Mins per G/A: 111.5
Ronaldo:
-Mins per G/A: 118.9
Messi:
-Mins per successful dribble: 18.5
-Dribble success: 61%
-Total successful dribbles: 2250
Ronaldo:
-Mins per successful dribble: 48.9
-Dribble success: 52.9%
-Total successful dribbles: 857
-Not that it was up for debate, but Messi is the clear better dribbler.
http://whoscored.com rating since 2009 (all competition, club and country):
-Messi: 8.58, 264 Motm awards.
-CR7: 8.07, 154 Motm awards.
Comparison between the two from understat that began tracking 2014 onward:
-Now, i very rarely see people use advanced metrics to judge Messi and Ronaldo, so that’s what I’m going to do.
Using data from understat which has data from the 14/15 season onwards, we can see lots about the two players since this time.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY0Kjj5XsAE32bb.jpgMessi leads in:
Goals per 90
xGBuildup90
xGChain90
Keypasses per 90
xAssists per90
Assists per 90
-CR7 leads in:
Shots per 90
xG per 90
So Ronaldo takes more shots yet scores less, and has a higher expected goals per 90, but lower actual goals per90.
-That tells us Messi must be the more clinical finisher?
-You’d be correct.
-Since the 14/15 season, Messi has an xG (expected goals) of 160, he has actually scored 195, out performing his xG by 35 goals.Exploding headExploding head
-In the same time, CR7 has an xG of 167.98, and has scored 176 goals, out performing his xG by 8.02.
So no, Messi didn’t get “2-3 more ballon dors” than be should have, 2010 definitely had an argument for snjeider as well as milito. But if anything him only having 6 is criminal. He’s comfortably the best player of his generation and I’d pull out the quotes of all the former footballers and managers who say he’s the GOAT where the number for Ronaldo who say that are literally a tenth, if that.
The thing is many many years from now, Messi will rightfully be the one who defined the generation. That 2011 Barca team was an all time team. And this isn’t about discrediting Ronaldo, he’s the best CL player in history. He’s stats are godly and he’s got a fantastic mentality. He just happened to be playing in the same generation as a player who keeps up with him and even surpasses him in goal scoring (91 goals a season won’t be broken for a long long time) and blows him away as a playmaker.
United won trophies And leagues and went to a UCL final after he left, serie A has him as a luxury when he was only the fourth best scorer in the league and an insanely undeserved serie A player of the year award.
He can have his international trophies, but the biggest international moment of his career had him on the sidelines. At the end of the day, he was always second best and there is ZERO shame in that against the GOAT which is Messi.
