Len Bias

[LakerLegend]

The Last Dance has brought back a lot of old memories, including one of the greatest "What-If's" in NBA history. The following should be enough to give everyone a good idea of Bias, especially the discussion/comments here:


https://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/indexf7b7.html?p=4011

Bias was too small to be a power forward in the pros, I think, so the comparisons to people like Tarpley, Washburn and Pinckney are off the mark. Bias was a wing player all the way. He was very strong, actually unusually strong for a 3 (just ask Steve Hale, who ended up with a fractured rib contesting Bias for a loose ball) and had the smoothest mid-range jumper I ever saw. The elevation on it was unreal, and had to be seen to be believed. That he was MVP of the ACC tournament as a sophomore, the only time Lefty ever won it, says a lot about his ability.

In comparison to Jordan, he jumped just as well and was bigger and stronger, though not quite as quick. He had a more effective jump shot because nobody could contest it once he elevated. He didn't have Jordan's ball handling ability (but he was a 3 while Jordan was really a 2 so I'm not sure how that's so relevant. He was a better on the boards than Jordan simply because he was bigger) nor was he as good a defender. He was an average passer.

How he would have done in the pros? Who knows. He would have had to develop some, extend his range about 4 feet on his shot and refine his ball handling and passing skills a bit. I'll tell you one thing, though. I certainly thought he was a can't miss prospect, as did every other ACC fan around at that time. Bobby Knight and Mike Krzyzewski say he was the best college player they ever saw.

Although there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that he was an outstanding college player, who was likely going to have a very good pro career, as an under-sized Power Forward, ala James Worthy, IMO, any comparison of Bias' actual skill-set to that of Michael Jordan's, as the quintessential NBA OG/SF, is simply off-base.

Please re-read carefully the anecdotal comments referenced in this thread praising Len's ability to play the game at a high level. What you should be able to see are subtle hints that reveal a distinct qualitative difference between Bias' physical and skill-based assets:

* He was not quite as quick
* He was not quite as agile
* His ball-handling and passing skills needed to improve
* His range on his jumper needed to increase
* His driving ability was not that of a prototypical SF in the NBA

in comparison with His Airness.

Bias was much better than James Worthy. He had shooting and ballhandling skills that Worthy could only dream about. He was also a better rebounder. Bias ability-wise and body wise is similar to LeBron james, though I'm not sure he would ever gotten as good as LeBron.

How good do you think Bias would have been?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[ellobo]

I watched Bias during his college career, and I think his ceiling was as a James Worthy, Bernard King, Alex English midrange scoring artist (which is still a hall-of-fame ceiling). But I never saw him as a potential championship team-carrying, MVP-level superstar kind of player.

He was an outstanding athlete with a quick jump and great quick elevation on his midrange jumper. Really nice midrange shooting stroke. Mainly scored on putbacks, lobs, spot up jumpers, flashing into the post or foul line area for quick turnarounds or face up jumpers, and one or two dribble pullups. Not at all a big iso creator off the dribble or playmaker for others.

BTW, thinking about Bias makes me think about how players used to develop over their college careers. As a freshman, Bias scored 7 ppg and shot only 63.6% from the line. Today, we'd look at a freshman year like that for a touted prospect and say that guy's a bust and the FT% projects him as a bad shooter. By his senior year, he scored 23 ppg on 54% from the field and 86% from the line.

[LakerLegend]

I watched Bias during his college career, and I think his ceiling was as a James Worthy, Bernard King, Alex English midrange scoring artist (which is still a hall-of-fame ceiling). But I never saw him as a potential championship team-carrying, MVP-level superstar kind of player.

He was an outstanding athlete with a quick jump and great quick elevation on his midrange jumper. Really nice midrange shooting stroke. Mainly scored on putbacks, lobs, spot up jumpers, flashing into the post or foul line area for quick turnarounds or face up jumpers, and one or two dribble pullups. Not at all a big iso creator off the dribble or playmaker for others.

BTW, thinking about Bias makes me think about how players used to develop over their college careers. As a freshman, Bias scored 7 ppg and shot only 63.6% from the line. Today, we'd look at a freshman year like that for a touted prospect and say that guy's a bust and the FT% projects him as a bad shooter. By his senior year, he scored 23 ppg on 54% from the field and 86% from the line.

Good observation, I've edited the OP to add some comments from that post.

If you watch the video in the OP, Jay Bilas' take is pretty interesting.

[Reeko]

Len Bias and Reggie Lewis vs Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Would've been fun to watch.

[LakerLegend]

I watched Bias during his college career, and I think his ceiling was as a James Worthy, Bernard King, Alex English midrange scoring artist (which is still a hall-of-fame ceiling). But I never saw him as a potential championship team-carrying, MVP-level superstar kind of player.

He was an outstanding athlete with a quick jump and great quick elevation on his midrange jumper. Really nice midrange shooting stroke. Mainly scored on putbacks, lobs, spot up jumpers, flashing into the post or foul line area for quick turnarounds or face up jumpers, and one or two dribble pullups. Not at all a big iso creator off the dribble or playmaker for others.

BTW, thinking about Bias makes me think about how players used to develop over their college careers. As a freshman, Bias scored 7 ppg and shot only 63.6% from the line. Today, we'd look at a freshman year like that for a touted prospect and say that guy's a bust and the FT% projects him as a bad shooter. By his senior year, he scored 23 ppg on 54% from the field and 86% from the line.

Good observation, I've edited the OP to add some comments from that post.

If you watch the video in the OP, Jay Bilas' take is pretty interesting.

Bilas says it's hard to imagine Bias not being better than guys like Barkley, Drexler, Malone.

Though Barkley's peak is extremely underrated, he'd be in the the conversation for best player in the league right now.

[Najee12]

I watched Bias during his college career, and I think his ceiling was as a James Worthy, Bernard King, Alex English midrange scoring artist (which is still a hall-of-fame ceiling). But I never saw him as a potential championship team-carrying, MVP-level superstar kind of player.

He was an outstanding athlete with a quick jump and great quick elevation on his midrange jumper. Really nice midrange shooting stroke. Mainly scored on putbacks, lobs, spot-up jumpers, flashing into the post or foul line area for quick turnarounds or face-up jumpers, and one or two dribble pullups. Not at all a big iso creator off the dribble or playmaker for others.

It's pretty much how I remembered Len Bias when I watched him in college. I saw his ceiling also somewhere between a more athletic James Worthy and a shorter Larry Nance. I did not see Bias being this big-time scorer a la Bernard King, Alex English, Michael Jordan or Dominique Wilkins, coming into the NBA. I thought Bias was a little more rounded player than Worthy, especially on defense. Nance was comparable to me because Bias feasted on running to the basket, as Nance did in Phoenix.

Since any discussion of Bias as an NBA player purely is speculation, there is no idea what Bias would have become in the NBA. He would have had to develop some more offensively, extending his range and refining his ball-handling and passing skills a bit. I also saw a worst-case scenario of Bias (had he lived) becoming another Orlando Woolridge, another athletic small forward who also had drug problems in the NBA and never developed his game fully.

People are overlooking that drugs likely would have been a factor in Bias' development, as several members of his draft class also had their careers ruined by drugs (Roy Tarpley, Chris Washburn). It's hard for me to believe had Bias lived, he would not have had drug problems plague his career like it destroyed Tarpley's career. The biggest issue I have with these "What if Len Bias lived?" topics is the unfounded assumption he never would have had the problem that killed him in the first place if he lived.

[Sir-Swish-A-Lot]

Len Bias was a mix of Jordan and Dominique Wilkins. He would have been a force in the NBA especially on a Celtics roster where he would have learned winning habits, championship habits from Bird and company.

[Lalouie]

there are many many what ifs in sports.
the greatest ones are the ones that have a basis upon which to launch off of. like what if bill walton had been healthy.

the what if's i never give a thought to are the ones that never even get off the ground, to wit "len bias" and "wayne estes". they never even set foot in camp.

[InTheNBADraft]

I imagine like most that die young, their abilities and potential get exaggerated because there's so much left up to the imagination.

[SomeBunghole]

Don't believe the bull story that Bias had never tried cocaine and just so decided to do it for the first time on draft night and somehow overdoses.

If he didn't OD then, cocaine would've ruined his career sooner or later. Just look at some of his fellow '86 draftees like Tarpley, Bedford, or Washburn. You can't be a cocaine addict and have a long, HOF career.

edit: Nevermind, Naji12 said it all earlier and better.

[Ill News]

If anything, Bias probably would've extended Larry Bird's career, and that Celtic core's title window as well. Bias coming off the bench behind Bird would've been big since Bird's body was breaking down. In a few years Bird would've ceded his spot to Bias, relegating himself to a wily veteran that lets the young guys do damage while he does the little things and comes up big in the clutch.

Of course, there's also the Reggie Lewis-Len Bias duo that would have ushered in an era of Celtics contention in the 90s. Would they have been good enough to win a title? I don't think so, but the franchise wouldn't have been in a sorry state for that decade had those two survived.

Lewis' and Bias's deaths were absolutely tragic for the Celtics. It's like the price they had to pay for being the winningest franchise in the league, and my heart still breaks over what could have been.

[LakerLegend]

there are many many what ifs in sports.
the greatest ones are the ones that have a basis upon which to launch off of. like what if bill walton had been healthy.

the what if's i never give a thought to are the ones that never even get off the ground, to wit "len bias" and "wayne estes". they never even set foot in camp.

We have a hell of a lot information and college play to go on regarding Bias, you're making it sound like he never played a minute beyond high school.

[Zion Wembanyama]

It's been stated some didn't see Bilas coming into the league as a big time scorer, but look at AD. Who thought AD was going to come into the league and become the offensive player he became? During draft time he was getting "a better Marcus Camby" comparisons.

[Najee12]

If anything, Bias probably would've extended Larry Bird's career, and that Celtic core's title window as well. Bias coming off the bench behind Bird would've been big since Bird's body was breaking down. In a few years Bird would've ceded his spot to Bias, relegating himself to a wily veteran that lets the young guys do damage while he does the little things and comes up big in the clutch.

Of course, there's also the Reggie Lewis-Len Bias duo that would have ushered in an era of Celtics contention in the 90s. Would they have been good enough to win a title? I don't think so, but the franchise wouldn't have been in a sorry state for that decade had those two survived.

Lewis' and Bias's deaths were absolutely tragic for the Celtics. It's like the price they had to pay for being the winningest franchise in the league, and my heart still breaks over what could have been.

Ironically for the Celtics, you can say Len Bias and Reggie Lewis were projected to be better versions of what Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum are today. Bias looked like he would be the athletic transition player who could develop other parts of his game like Brown; Lewis was the more all-around player who looked fundamentally sound, a la Tatum. The difference is Bias was seen as having a higher ceiling compared to Lewis, where Tatum seems to be projected as having a higher ceiling than Brown.

[pipfan]

I remember him well in college-an absolute stud. Maybe not MJ-type ceiling, but could have easily been a HoF level talent

[myronbolitar]

It's crazy that the '86 Celtics, considered one of the 2 or 3 greatest teams of all-time, were in a position in that draft to add Bias.

When people talk about the Celtics going title-less for a long stretch, especially through the 90s, they always leave out the fact that their two would-be cornerstones died.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

All I'm saying is that such a can't miss prospect, a surefire HOFer just looking at his college career, doesn't slip at #2 after Brad Daugherty, and no franchise is selling their #1 pick when there's such a player around.
Calling BS to all this.

Fortunately nothing bad happened to DeShawn Stevenson

[Ill News]

If anything, Bias probably would've extended Larry Bird's career, and that Celtic core's title window as well. Bias coming off the bench behind Bird would've been big since Bird's body was breaking down. In a few years Bird would've ceded his spot to Bias, relegating himself to a wily veteran that lets the young guys do damage while he does the little things and comes up big in the clutch.

Of course, there's also the Reggie Lewis-Len Bias duo that would have ushered in an era of Celtics contention in the 90s. Would they have been good enough to win a title? I don't think so, but the franchise wouldn't have been in a sorry state for that decade had those two survived.

Lewis' and Bias's deaths were absolutely tragic for the Celtics. It's like the price they had to pay for being the winningest franchise in the league, and my heart still breaks over what could have been.

Ironically for the Celtics, you can say Len Bias and Reggie Lewis were projected to be better versions of what Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum are today. Bias looked like he would be the athletic transition player who could develop other parts of his game like Brown; Lewis was the more all-around player who looked fundamentally sound, a la Tatum. The difference is Bias was seen as having a higher ceiling compared to Lewis, where Tatum seems to be projected as having a higher ceiling than Brown.

Yes, the Bias-Lewis comparison is being made for Brown and Tatum. It's like the basketball gods repaying our fanbase for robbing us of that duo all those years ago.

I would say that Brown and Tatum have a higher ceiling than Bias and Lewis. Tatum alone is much, much more polished than those two even as a rookie, and if he continues on his improvement he could be a top 5 player in the league, maybe even an MVP candidate in the right year. Can't imagine Bias and Lewis having that trajectory, but then again, we never saw them in their primes

[dlts20]

It's been stated some didn't see Bilas coming into the league as a big time scorer, but look at AD. Who thought AD was going to come into the league and become the offensive player he became? During draft time he was getting "a better Marcus Camby" comparisons.

Lmao. No one is shocked by what AD has done

[Najee12]

All I'm saying is that such a can't miss prospect, a surefire HOFer just looking at his college career, doesn't slip at #2 after Brad Daugherty, and no franchise is selling their #1 pick when there's such a player around.
Calling BS to all this.

Yeah, let's overlook the fact that Brad Daughtery was a five-time all-star before back injuries ended his career at age 28. Or that teams historically choose a talented center over an equally talented (or even slightly more talented) wing player, all things considered. Just two years previously, Michael Jordan went third in his draft.

I also don't know how it is an indictment against Len Bias that Philadelphia 76ers general manager Pat Williams not only traded the No. 1 overall pick to the Cleveland Cavaliers for Roy Hinson and cash but traded Moses Malone, Terry Catledge and two first-round draft picks to the Washington Bullets for Jeff Ruland and Cliff Robinson on the same day (three days later, Williams left the 76ers to become the head of the group that founded the Orlando Magic).