Trade Ideas Thread

[Floody100]

Mind you before reading this do know that I want to keep Langford as I do see an upside him.

I saw a trade scenario on the ‘Trades & Transactions’ Page about a trade between Langford & Kennard. It would obviously have to include a late first & while he’s not the greatest defender the upside is your getting a guy who averaged 16 on a 45/40/89 split this season. We’ve talked about needing scorers off the bench & he offers that while still being under contract for the next two seasons after this one. Also removes a draft pick which is probably what we need considering we can’t really use 8 picks over two seasons.

Thoughts ?

[24istheLAW]

Mind you before reading this do know that I want to keep Langford as I do see an upside him.

I saw a trade scenario on the ‘Trades & Transactions’ Page about a trade between Langford & Kennard. It would obviously have to include a late first & while he’s not the greatest defender the upside is your getting a guy who averaged 16 on a 45/40/89 split this season. We’ve talked about needing scorers off the bench & he offers that while still being under contract for the next two seasons after this one. Also removes a draft pick which is probably what we need considering we can’t really use 8 picks over two seasons.

Thoughts ?

Unless there's financial complications that would snowball from it (which I doubt given Kennard was a 12th pick and Romeo a 14th pick) I'd swap Langford and Kennard without blinking. 40% from deep despite inconsistent playing time, can move the ball and has floor game, controllable. Would give us a guard off the bench next year, which is a question mark right now, with Wanamaker a FA.

I have no confidence in Romeo's development right now. His shot looks horrendous. He's years away from being a good shooter. And he doesn't seem like much of a go-getter either.

[threrf23]

Romeo's willingness to commit to defense is a good sign, but I was never big on Romeo's outlook to begin with and wouldn't have drafted him, and he hasn't really exceeded expectations overall, so I'm not about to get up in arms over this proposal.

But - Danny and Brad were big on Romeo, so they might be up in arms. And Kennard is something like a poor man's Gordon Hayward. Nice offensive role player, good shooter who is willing and able to pass, but not a two way player, and not an exceptional player atm. If we were to trade Hayward for a big, maybe he would make sense. But otherwise I'd be more apt to try and turn Romeo into a higher draft pick.

[24istheLAW]

Romeo's willingness to commit to defense is a good sign, but I was never big on Romeo's outlook to begin with and wouldn't have drafted him, and he hasn't really exceeded expectations overall, so I'm not about to get up in arms over this proposal.

But - Danny and Brad were big on Romeo, so they might be up in arms. And Kennard is something like a poor man's Gordon Hayward. Nice offensive role player, good shooter who is willing and able to pass, but not a two way player, and not an exceptional player atm. If we were to trade Hayward for a big, maybe he would make sense. But otherwise I'd be more apt to try and turn Romeo into a higher draft pick.

It's not that Kennard is exceptional. It's just that Romeo is very far away. He has zero gravity on the floor and he's afraid to shoot. That isn't going to change overnight.

I think that with Tatum's recent star turn, and Kemba being in his prime, you need to think about the opportunity cost of being worse in the present, and not just maximizing asset value overall.

Right now, you're counting on Carsen Edwards or Tremont Waters to take Wanamaker's role. Those guys are sub-6' tall 2nd round picks (with Waters almost Mr. Irrelevant). And you've got a decision on Hayward looming.

If you go into the 2020-2021 season, and Edwards/Waters suck (which is what one would expect), then your only bench guard is Smart, and you have no shooters on the bench. Now you need to go out and trade for a shooter, or otherwise outlay resources to acquire one, after having had to make the surplus pick the OP mentioned, and after Romeo has lost some of his luster, by lengthening his track record of being a lousy shooter. Furthermore, Kennard's spot up shooting and ball-moving tendencies make him a harmonious fit with Jaylen Brown, so he'd give you Hayward insurance. A poor man's Gordo isn't a bad thing. If we're going to commit to pairing Brown/Tatum, the third guy is going to need to be a plus passer.

[hugepatsfan]

If we offered Langford for Kennard straight up, I can see DET laughing at it but I could also see them accepting it. While Kennard is a proven quality NBA player, Langford is a total unknown. To us that is though - GMs will base his value on their own evaluation of him.

Coming out of HS he was considered a top recruit, I think top 5 in his class if I recall. He stayed local and went to a really bad Indiana team. To make matters worse, he injured a finger on his shooting hand. That hampered his college production. It also lingered to where he got no summer league action and training camp. Because Boston is a good team they don't prioritize his development the way a rebuilding team would. So as he's tried to adjust to a new level while battling injuries, he's also been asked to play an entirely different type of game than he has before - his whole life he's been an on ball player and now he's being asked to play off of other ball handlers on Boston's roster (Kemba, Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Smart).

Two trades that stand out to me... when IND dealt PG13 to OKC everyone mocked the Sabonis/Oladipo return. Based on what those players had been in their careers to that point it was a bad return, but IND's evaluation of those players was that they'd be much better in different roles. Back in 2012 Aaron Afflalo was an analytics darling and when ORL dealt him to DEN for Evan Fournier I remember people trashing that return. ORL's evaluation of Fournier proved to be right as he's gone on to a really solid career.

So back to the OP's trade, it depends on what DET's evaluation of Langford is. By drafting him #14, Boston evidently believed that his poor year in college was due to a bad supporting cast and injury. In the past they made the same decision on players like Jaylen Brown and Avery Bradley who struggled in college, particularly with shooting, but had more pedigree coming out of high school. It's possible that DET's front office also agrees with that and view this as fair value for Kennard with one year left before restricted free agency and injury concerns surrounding his knee. But they also could have never liked him and believe his lack of playing time in Boston is because he's just not an NBA player.

[threrf23]

It's not that Kennard is exceptional. It's just that Romeo is very far away. He has zero gravity on the floor and he's afraid to shoot. That isn't going to change overnight.

You know, Langford turns 21 in October. A lot could change in the sense that he should hit physical maturation and he should look more like an NBA player (independent of skill). Along your lines though, I would also guess that he is still some ways away, and it's not like he fills a void for us.

But I was saying - it's not that Kennard isn't nice, it's that he is redundant alongside Hayward. Yeah it's up in the air how Hayward would perform defensively if asked to guard our opponent's SG, but I'm not sure Kennard can guard a single position in any meaningful capacity.

[Froob]

I like Romeo, not looking to trade him. His defense was a pleasant surprise.

[CelticsPride18]

Doesn’t Kennard have bad knees?

[threrf23]

Doesn’t Kennard have bad knees?

Apparently yes, he has been dealing with tendinitis in both knees since at least the previous offseason.

[GregB]

Romeo's willingness to commit to defense is a good sign, but I was never big on Romeo's outlook to begin with and wouldn't have drafted him, and he hasn't really exceeded expectations overall, so I'm not about to get up in arms over this proposal.

But - Danny and Brad were big on Romeo, so they might be up in arms. And Kennard is something like a poor man's Gordon Hayward. Nice offensive role player, good shooter who is willing and able to pass, but not a two way player, and not an exceptional player atm. If we were to trade Hayward for a big, maybe he would make sense. But otherwise I'd be more apt to try and turn Romeo into a higher draft pick.

It's not that Kennard is exceptional. It's just that Romeo is very far away. He has zero gravity on the floor and he's afraid to shoot. That isn't going to change overnight.

I think that with Tatum's recent star turn, and Kemba being in his prime, you need to think about the opportunity cost of being worse in the present, and not just maximizing asset value overall.

Right now, you're counting on Carsen Edwards or Tremont Waters to take Wanamaker's role. Those guys are sub-6' tall 2nd round picks (with Waters almost Mr. Irrelevant). And you've got a decision on Hayward looming.

If you go into the 2020-2021 season, and Edwards/Waters suck (which is what one would expect), then your only bench guard is Smart, and you have no shooters on the bench. Now you need to go out and trade for a shooter, or otherwise outlay resources to acquire one, after having had to make the surplus pick the OP mentioned, and after Romeo has lost some of his luster, by lengthening his track record of being a lousy shooter. Furthermore, Kennard's spot up shooting and ball-moving tendencies make him a harmonious fit with Jaylen Brown, so he'd give you Hayward insurance. A poor man's Gordo isn't a bad thing. If we're going to commit to pairing Brown/Tatum, the third guy is going to need to be a plus passer.

I agree on the part about not worrying about maximizing assets. Because we have also been hurting their value with little opportunity to develop on an already deep roster.

Outside of Jaylen and Tatum who have we developed since the surge of picks?

You could argue Terry Rozier but we lost him for nothing. When we should have moved him the prior offseason.

Compete bust first rounders include James Young, RJ Hunter, and Yabusele.

Robert Williams looks solid but very injury prone and his hip condition is worrisome long term.

Incomplete on Grant and Romeo. Both had a few nice moments but also some of the worst basketball of the season.

With a ton more picks we need a 3-1 or 4-1 trade desperately.

[robbie84]

Mind you before reading this do know that I want to keep Langford as I do see an upside him.

I saw a trade scenario on the ‘Trades & Transactions’ Page about a trade between Langford & Kennard. It would obviously have to include a late first & while he’s not the greatest defender the upside is your getting a guy who averaged 16 on a 45/40/89 split this season. We’ve talked about needing scorers off the bench & he offers that while still being under contract for the next two seasons after this one. Also removes a draft pick which is probably what we need considering we can’t really use 8 picks over two seasons.

Thoughts ?

Unless there's financial complications that would snowball from it (which I doubt given Kennard was a 12th pick and Romeo a 14th pick) I'd swap Langford and Kennard without blinking. 40% from deep despite inconsistent playing time, can move the ball and has floor game, controllable. Would give us a guard off the bench next year, which is a question mark right now, with Wanamaker a FA.

I have no confidence in Romeo's development right now. His shot looks horrendous. He's years away from being a good shooter. And he doesn't seem like much of a go-getter either.

I dunno what Romeo you're watching but I could not disagree more with you. The kid has epic on court instincts and composure for a young guy amongst all those other bulls out there. His defense is awesome, his athleticism is incredible and his timing/anticipation skills and finishing skills around the basket and under pressure are excellent.

[bucknersrevenge]

Mind you before reading this do know that I want to keep Langford as I do see an upside him.

I saw a trade scenario on the ‘Trades & Transactions’ Page about a trade between Langford & Kennard. It would obviously have to include a late first & while he’s not the greatest defender the upside is your getting a guy who averaged 16 on a 45/40/89 split this season. We’ve talked about needing scorers off the bench & he offers that while still being under contract for the next two seasons after this one. Also removes a draft pick which is probably what we need considering we can’t really use 8 picks over two seasons.

Thoughts ?

Not a terrible idea by any stretch but I'd be surprised if Danny and Brad ever considered a player like him at the wing because he lacks the requisite strength and wingspan that they like in their wings, especially as "switchy" as we like to be on defense. Langford, on the other hands has like Kevin McHale arms on his body and he has some strength but will get even stronger as his body matures in Boston. I see Langford as a longterm investment here.

[big-shot-ROB]

Yeah, Langford is not going anywhere.

He has all the attributes Ainge and Stevens like in their wings.

He is a stud defender, has really good insticts and composure for a rookie, can handle a little bit the ball, has tremendous touch around the rim, is strong. And he has 3 years left in his contract.

I floated the idea of Kennard around in some thread, as a guy who can shoot and is still young where it would be cheap to get him, but he still has 2 years left in his contract.

[themoneyteam2]

Would obviously love to swap Romeo for Kennard but very unlikely because Kennard is due for a new deal after next year. Celtics need role players on rookie deals since they’ll be in the luxury tax.

I actually like Langford a lot. Shot is a work in progress but he was the best driver and finisher of all the wings in the 2019 draft. Great slasher and defense is a pleasant surprise

[Curmudgeon]

Kennard is a defensive liability. If Ainge wanted to trade Langford, he could do better.

[Bleeding Green]

Everyone underrates contract control. Kennard is really nice offensively, but he's also an RFA after next year. They already control Langford through '22-'23 and his defensive ability is like a billion times greater than Kennard's. I think I'm like the biggest Romeo Langford fan on the board, though. He's the prototypical wing that Ainge loves, and just started getting back into the rotation and contributing as a raw rookie on a team that was on pace for 55 wins. I don't know why you'd want to trade him for an average NBA starter. Maybe if the Celtics had some defined window for a championship, I'd consider it, but the Celtics are primed for 10+ years of top-end competitive play assuming normal injury luck. Like 2009-2011 era Celtics and you want to make a trade like this? Go for it.

Would you rather have Langford for the next three seasons on his rookie-scale contract or have Luke Kennard for one season and then potentially have to match a 4/40 deal or something like that?

[ParticleMan]

I was not a big fan of Langford but he has grown on me. I've been really surprised at his D. Yes he is totally gunshy offensively but every so often you see him taking steps to be aggressive. I don't know if he's as far away as people think. He needs to gain strength and stop looking like the kid with the caved in chest hanging out at muscle beach. But that will happen.

I've been really impressed with him slotting into his role nicely and generally trying to do the right thing when his number is called. He makes dumb mistakes but he seems to learn from them. And it's not like he doesn't have offensive ability, he does. It's mostly a matter of confidence. We all saw how Tatum was in his rookie year. Langford has a fraction of Tatum's scoring ability but the confidence and assertiveness issues are similar.

Look, Langford is a project. But at this stage, upside is the most important thing, not ability to help the team right now. We aren't a title team, we weren't this year and given the lost year we probably won't be next year. Langford has far more upside than Kennard, imo, though I haven't seen all that much of Kennard. There is no way I make this trade, and I seriously doubt Danny does either.

Langford will help us, just give it time. We need a bench, beyond Smart. Langford can be a big part of that. tbh, he might even replace Smart's role in a couple of years, when Marcus prices himself out of our range.

[24istheLAW]

I was not a big fan of Langford but he has grown on me. I've been really surprised at his D. Yes he is totally gunshy offensively but every so often you see him taking steps to be aggressive. I don't know if he's as far away as people think. He needs to gain strength and stop looking like the kid with the caved in chest hanging out at muscle beach. But that will happen.

I've been really impressed with him slotting into his role nicely and generally trying to do the right thing when his number is called. He makes dumb mistakes but he seems to learn from them. And it's not like he doesn't have offensive ability, he does. It's mostly a matter of confidence. We all saw how Tatum was in his rookie year. Langford has a fraction of Tatum's scoring ability but the confidence and assertiveness issues are similar.

Look, Langford is a project. But at this stage, upside is the most important thing, not ability to help the team right now. We aren't a title team, we weren't this year and given the lost year we probably won't be next year. Langford has far more upside than Kennard, imo, though I haven't seen all that much of Kennard. There is no way I make this trade, and I seriously doubt Danny does either.

Langford will help us, just give it time. We need a bench, beyond Smart. Langford can be a big part of that. tbh, he might even replace Smart's role in a couple of years, when Marcus prices himself out of our range.

Even if we aren't a title team, I think it's important to be close enough, and make sure we can lock in Tatum's allegiance. I don't want to mess around and lose Tatum.

[Parliament10]

I was not a big fan of Langford but he has grown on me. I've been really surprised at his D. Yes he is totally gunshy offensively but every so often you see him taking steps to be aggressive. I don't know if he's as far away as people think. He needs to gain strength and stop looking like the kid with the caved in chest hanging out at muscle beach. But that will happen.

I've been really impressed with him slotting into his role nicely and generally trying to do the right thing when his number is called. He makes dumb mistakes but he seems to learn from them. And it's not like he doesn't have offensive ability, he does. It's mostly a matter of confidence. We all saw how Tatum was in his rookie year. Langford has a fraction of Tatum's scoring ability but the confidence and assertiveness issues are similar.

Look, Langford is a project. But at this stage, upside is the most important thing, not ability to help the team right now. We aren't a title team, we weren't this year and given the lost year we probably won't be next year. Langford has far more upside than Kennard, imo, though I haven't seen all that much of Kennard. There is no way I make this trade, and I seriously doubt Danny does either.

Langford will help us, just give it time. We need a bench, beyond Smart. Langford can be a big part of that. tbh, he might even replace Smart's role in a couple of years, when Marcus prices himself out of our range.

Even if we aren't a title team, I think it's important to be close enough, and make sure we can lock in Tatum's allegiance. I don't want to mess around and lose Tatum.

I think that Langford is worth a continued effort. He shows a lot of promise.
The grass is always going to look greener, elsewhere. There's not enough here, to be worth rolling the dice.

[celticfan42487]

Langford is nice, but yeah it would be nice to have a similar prospect with a clearer lane to playing time.

When you have Kemba, Smart, and Brown there isn't a ton of time available at the 1 and 2 spots.

and with the 3 spot we have Hayward and Tatum. Again just... even if he reaches a lofty ceiling we don't have the ability to capitalize on it. But we'll see... we have like what 3 more picks coming in this draft?