OT: Knicks to pursue Thibs as HC

Dresden · Post #41 » by **Dresden** » Fri May 29, 2020 12:29 am

What is it with the Knicks always being interested in our cast offs? Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, Noah, McDermott, Phil Jackson, now Thibs? Do they see us as the ultimate proving ground for nba talent or something?

dice · Post #42 » by **dice** » Fri May 29, 2020 1:14 am

Dresden wrote:What is it with the Knicks always being interested in our cast offs? Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, Noah, McDermott, Phil Jackson, now Thibs? Do they see us as the ultimate proving ground for nba talent or something?

forgot portis and taj. tyson chandler. ronnie brewer. duhon. and, of course, derrick. does JR smith count?

would be thibs's third run w/ taj unless team doesn't pick up his option

Dresden · Post #43 » by **Dresden** » Fri May 29, 2020 1:38 am

dice wrote:
Dresden wrote:What is it with the Knicks always being interested in our cast offs? Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, Noah, McDermott, Phil Jackson, now Thibs? Do they see us as the ultimate proving ground for nba talent or something?

forgot portis and taj. tyson chandler. ronnie brewer. duhon. and, of course, derrick. does JR smith count?

would be thibs's third run w/ taj unless team doesn't pick up his option

Of course, I knew I was leaving a few out. Yeah, it's like there's a conveyor belt from Chicago to MSG.

bullsnewdynasty · Post #44 » by **bullsnewdynasty** » Fri May 29, 2020 2:57 am

XxMisterFreakXx wrote:Good for them but imo I never really saw Thibs as a good coach overrated by so many people.

Thibs has a 59% career winning percentage, which includes a rebuilding season in Minnesota. He's only overrated if you don't like winning.

His style of playing his team into the ground and playing them 40 min a game is outdated. If I remember correctly he was on the list of coaches that players didn't want to play for.

I can tell you haven't been watching the NBA for very long, because starters playing 37-40 minutes per game was actually the norm before the very recent past.

The only guy he arguably overplayed was Noah for a few seasons due to his position and having an injury history, although some of that was due to not having a suitable backup.

Jcool0 · Post #45 » by **Jcool0** » Fri May 29, 2020 3:11 am

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
XxMisterFreakXx wrote:Good for them but imo I never really saw Thibs as a good coach overrated by so many people.

Thibs has a 59% career winning percentage, which includes a rebuilding season in Minnesota. He's only overrated if you don't like winning.

He also has a 43% career winning percentage in the playoffs which includes 1st round losses in 3 of his 6 appearances.

bullsnewdynasty · Post #46 » by **bullsnewdynasty** » Fri May 29, 2020 3:19 am

Jcool0 wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:
XxMisterFreakXx wrote:Good for them but imo I never really saw Thibs as a good coach overrated by so many people.

Thibs has a 59% career winning percentage, which includes a rebuilding season in Minnesota. He's only overrated if you don't like winning.

He also has a 43% career winning percentage in the playoffs which includes 1st round losses in 3 of his 6 appearances.

You're really going to bring up losing in the playoffs without Rose and then the other time as an 8th seed? Jeez that's desperate.

Hoiberg was brought in because the team was supposed to be at championship level. How did that work out? Turns out the team really overachieved.

Post #47 » by **Michael Jackson** » Fri May 29, 2020 4:14 am

Dresden wrote:What is it with the Knicks always being interested in our cast offs? Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, Noah, McDermott, Phil Jackson, now Thibs? Do they see us as the ultimate proving ground for nba talent or something?

Agree with the list but can’t really call Phil a Chicago cast off.

Post #48 » by **dougthonus** » Fri May 29, 2020 11:43 am

Dresden wrote:What is it with the Knicks always being interested in our cast offs? Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, Noah, McDermott, Phil Jackson, now Thibs? Do they see us as the ultimate proving ground for nba talent or something?

Shouldn't throw stones, since recently, our game plan is to chase Wizards cast offs.

MrFortune3 · Post #49 » by **MrFortune3** » Fri May 29, 2020 3:32 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Dresden wrote:What is it with the Knicks always being interested in our cast offs? Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, Noah, McDermott, Phil Jackson, now Thibs? Do they see us as the ultimate proving ground for nba talent or something?

Shouldn't throw stones, since recently, our game plan is to chase Wizards cast offs.

It's the Knicks. Everything is fair game with the Knicks.

Leslie Forman · Post #50 » by **Leslie Forman** » Fri May 29, 2020 10:07 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Dresden wrote:What is it with the Knicks always being interested in our cast offs? Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, Noah, McDermott, Phil Jackson, now Thibs? Do they see us as the ultimate proving ground for nba talent or something?

Shouldn't throw stones, since recently, our game plan is to chase Wizards cast offs.

Yeah, those dumb Knicks can't figure out that you really need to build around a bunch of ex-Wizards and Wolves.

And people wonder why there's no "winning culture" here.

TheStig · Post #51 » by **TheStig** » Fri May 29, 2020 10:45 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
XxMisterFreakXx wrote:Good for them but imo I never really saw Thibs as a good coach overrated by so many people.

Thibs has a 59% career winning percentage, which includes a rebuilding season in Minnesota. He's only overrated if you don't like winning.

His style of playing his team into the ground and playing them 40 min a game is outdated. If I remember correctly he was on the list of coaches that players didn't want to play for.

I can tell you haven't been watching the NBA for very long, because starters playing 37-40 minutes per game was actually the norm before the very recent past.

The only guy he arguably overplayed was Noah for a few seasons due to his position and having an injury history, although some of that was due to not having a suitable backup.

Thibs is very underrated. He is an upper tier coach.

Though I don't know if he'd be the guy I'd pick for a rebuilding team. I'd like to see him go to a more veteran team.

dice · Post #52 » by **dice** » Fri May 29, 2020 10:57 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Dresden wrote:What is it with the Knicks always being interested in our cast offs? Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, Noah, McDermott, Phil Jackson, now Thibs? Do they see us as the ultimate proving ground for nba talent or something?

Shouldn't throw stones, since recently, our game plan is to chase Wizards cast offs.

only because we're rebuilding, so that when we're really good the knicks will have those guys

dice · Post #53 » by **dice** » Fri May 29, 2020 11:35 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
XxMisterFreakXx wrote:Good for them but imo I never really saw Thibs as a good coach overrated by so many people.

Thibs has a 59% career winning percentage, which includes a rebuilding season in Minnesota. He's only overrated if you don't like winning.

winning percentage is really not a very good measure of a coach. don nelson had a .557 career percentage, wilkins .536 and larry brown went for .548 in the nba. nelson and wilkens are in the HOF and brown might be the best college/pro basketball coach who ever lived

in thibs's last season, we had jimmy and pau having good seasons and noah still providing value. niko, dunleavy, taj, derrick shooting a lot of 3s and aaron brooks chipping in. 50 wins. the next season under hoiberg noah got injured, basically ending his career. dunleavy also got injured, giving a lot of minutes to mcdermott. brooks declined. snell, e'twaun and portis rotation players. still won 42 games. would thibs have done better under the circumstances?

then in minny thibs inherited a 29 win team and turned them into a 31 win team. KAT, zach and wiggins all 21 year olds, wiggins didn't improve, lavine scored effectively for the first time before injury, nobody played any defense. not a particularly notable season

also, in thibs's last season w/ the celtics they won 50 games and had the 5th best defense. the following season they won 56 and had the 2nd best defense. don't think they missed him much

bullsnewdynasty · Post #54 » by **bullsnewdynasty** » Sat May 30, 2020 1:47 am

dice wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:
XxMisterFreakXx wrote:Good for them but imo I never really saw Thibs as a good coach overrated by so many people.

Thibs has a 59% career winning percentage, which includes a rebuilding season in Minnesota. He's only overrated if you don't like winning.

winning percentage is really not a very good measure of a coach. don nelson had a .557 career percentage, wilkins .536 and larry brown went for .548 in the nba. nelson and wilkens are in the HOF and brown might be the best college/pro basketball coach who ever lived

So what? A lot of people think those guys are overrated coaches. They coached forever (#3 and #1 in losses all-time) and had a lot of HOFers. Who did Thibs coach?

in thibs's last season, we had jimmy and pau having good seasons and noah still providing value. niko, dunleavy, taj, derrick shooting a lot of 3s and aaron brooks chipping in. 50 wins. the next season under hoiberg noah got injured, basically ending his career. dunleavy also got injured, giving a lot of minutes to mcdermott. brooks declined. snell, e'twaun and portis rotation players. still won 42 games. would thibs have done better under the circumstances?

All of the teams had injuries so you can't use it as an excuse. Thibs always had the team in the playoffs no matter who went down.

then in minny thibs inherited a 29 win team and turned them into a 31 win team. KAT, zach and wiggins all 21 year olds, wiggins didn't improve, lavine scored effectively for the first time before injury, nobody played any defense. not a particularly notable season

So you're saying they improved despite getting much younger and losing a key starter to injury?

also, in thibs's last season w/ the celtics they won 50 games and had the 5th best defense. the following season they won 56 and had the 2nd best defense. don't think they missed him much

Because they had the same head coach and were already running his system?

dice · Post #55 » by **dice** » Sat May 30, 2020 4:38 am

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
dice wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:
Thibs has a 59% career winning percentage, which includes a rebuilding season in Minnesota. He's only overrated if you don't like winning.

winning percentage is really not a very good measure of a coach. don nelson had a .557 career percentage, wilkins .536 and larry brown went for .548 in the nba. nelson and wilkens are in the HOF and brown might be the best college/pro basketball coach who ever lived

So what? A lot of people think those guys are overrated coaches.

every public figure that ever existed has a lot of people who think they are overrated. so what?

They coached forever (#3 and #1 in losses all-time) and had a lot of HOFers.

larry brown was best known in the nba for turning around crap teams. he got bored with winning and left for new challenges. so the argument that he coached a disproportionate amount of talent is garbage. you must be thinking of phil jackson

brown coached for 27 years in the nba. nelson and wilkens coached for 31 and 32 years, respectively. anybody who coaches that long is bound to coach a great player or two along the way

rick adelman had a .582 career winning percentage. better than all of the hall of fame coaches i mentioned. nobody thinks that adelman is an all-time great coach. tom heinsohn? .619 KC jones? .674

mike brown had a .616 winning % over 8 seasons. he hasn't had a head coaching gig in nearly a decade. avery johnson (.577) is in the same boat

scott brooks, not considered a great coach, has a .568 career winning %. rick carlisle, widely considered an excellent coach, has a .547 career percentage

red holtzman is a HOF coach with a .535 career winning percentage

hubie brown and bill fitch are two of only nine coaches to ever win coach of the year multiple times. their career winning percentages? .461 and .460

i'll say it again: winning percentage is a garbage measure of a coach

Who did Thibs coach?

seriously? are you new to following the bulls?

an MVP (derrick), a fringe MVP candidate (noah), an all-nba future HOFer (gasol), 2 additional all-stars (deng/butler) and keith mother****ing bogans. all at the same time

in thibs's last season, we had jimmy and pau having good seasons and noah still providing value. niko, dunleavy, taj, derrick shooting a lot of 3s and aaron brooks chipping in. 50 wins. the next season under hoiberg noah got injured, basically ending his career. dunleavy also got injured, giving a lot of minutes to mcdermott. brooks declined. snell, e'twaun and portis rotation players. still won 42 games. would thibs have done better under the circumstances?

All of the teams had injuries so you can't use it as an excuse.

bull. i'm specifically comparing two consecutive seasons. when MVP derrick rose was lost for an entire season, was it thibs's fault that the bulls lost 17 more games? no? then why in the world would it be fred hoiberg's fault that the team lost 8 more games when he lost a guy who came in 4th in the MVP voting the previous season? dunleavy also missed the majority of the season after playing well the prior year. in thibs's LAST YEAR with the bulls, there were no major injury issues

games played by starters in thibs's last season: 324
games played by starters in hoiberg's first season: 265
second unit thibs: 364
second unit hoiberg: 307

thibs lost a ton more games when derrick went down. that was his very valid EXCUSE. hoiberg lost several more games mainly due to the loss of noah and dunleavy. also a very valid excuse

Thibs always had the team in the playoffs no matter who went down.

irrelevant. he got to the playoffs every year in chicago because he had the talent. they were never a real threat to NOT make the playoffs. he got to the playoffs once in minny because jimmy butler was there that season

then in minny thibs inherited a 29 win team and turned them into a 31 win team. KAT, zach and wiggins all 21 year olds, wiggins didn't improve, lavine scored effectively for the first time before injury, nobody played any defense. not a particularly notable season

So you're saying they improved despite getting much younger and losing a key starter to injury?

they got much younger? their minutes-weighted average age the year before thibs got there was 24.6. his first year there it was 24.0. that ain't much younger

also, in thibs's last season w/ the celtics they won 50 games and had the 5th best defense. the following season they won 56 and had the 2nd best defense. don't think they missed him much

Because they had the same head coach and were already running his system?

in part. also because they had the same group of solid defenders that he coached. and one great one (KG). you would expect SOME decline in defense without him around to bark at them. instead they got better

bullsnewdynasty · Post #56 » by **bullsnewdynasty** » Sun May 31, 2020 1:04 am

Whatever dude, I'm not going to get into a back and forth on Thibs. There's a group with an agenda that never wanted to give him his due that was brainwashed by GarPax and Bulls ownership into thinking that he's a psychopath.

The fact is that Thibs is a top coaching candidate. I know you hate the fact of having to deal with that, but that's reality. Teams want him because he's good.

MrFortune3 · Post #57 » by **MrFortune3** » Sun May 31, 2020 2:45 am

He's a winning coach, who cares about the over/under rated portion? Knicks need to win.

Grodoboldo · Post #58 » by **Grodoboldo** » Sun May 31, 2020 3:18 am

Thibs was such a good coach that the modern offensive schemes have part of their origins in trying to counter his elite defensive style.
Of course he has his faults, as all coaches do, but the biggest one from his time with the Timberwolves is probably accepting a management role. Also, I'm sure he studied, learned and evolved in his off time.
By no means he is a sure thing, but to label him as an afterthought (sometimes by people who think Mark Jackson is a good coach) is just plain wrong.

P.C. · Post #59 » by **P.C.** » Sun May 31, 2020 6:20 pm

bullsnewdynasty wrote:
XxMisterFreakXx wrote:Good for them but imo I never really saw Thibs as a good coach overrated by so many people.

Thibs has a 59% career winning percentage, which includes a rebuilding season in Minnesota. He's only overrated if you don't like winning.

His style of playing his team into the ground and playing them 40 min a game is outdated. If I remember correctly he was on the list of coaches that players didn't want to play for.

I can tell you haven't been watching the NBA for very long, because starters playing 37-40 minutes per game was actually the norm before the very recent past.

The only guy he arguably overplayed was Noah for a few seasons due to his position and having an injury history, although some of that was due to not having a suitable backup.

This is silly. Thins is singlehandedly responsible for ending Derrick Roses career before it really began. He felt compelled to play Rose hurt for a half against a NO bottom rung team, which created the mess leading up to the first ACL. I can’t believe we’re still arguing this with the way Noah, Deng, Heinrich and Roses careers imploded. You can say Thibs was just behind the times by a little but what does that matter? He was behind the times in a way that destroyed careers prematurely. Plus he’s defensive schemes blow ass in the new NBA. I wouldn’t let him within ten miles of my roster.

Oh and Noah is another NY castoff.

P.C. · Post #60 » by **P.C.** » Sun May 31, 2020 7:45 pm

P.C. wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:
XxMisterFreakXx wrote:Good for them but imo I never really saw Thibs as a good coach overrated by so many people.

Thibs has a 59% career winning percentage, which includes a rebuilding season in Minnesota. He's only overrated if you don't like winning.

His style of playing his team into the ground and playing them 40 min a game is outdated. If I remember correctly he was on the list of coaches that players didn't want to play for.

I can tell you haven't been watching the NBA for very long, because starters playing 37-40 minutes per game was actually the norm before the very recent past.

The only guy he arguably overplayed was Noah for a few seasons due to his position and having an injury history, although some of that was due to not having a suitable backup.

This is silly. Thibs is singlehandedly responsible for ending Derrick Roses career before it really began. He felt compelled to play Rose hurt for a half against a NO bottom rung team, which created the mess leading up to the first ACL. I can’t believe we’re still arguing this with the way Noah, Deng, Heinrich and Roses careers imploded. You can say Thibs was just behind the times by a little but what does that matter? He was behind the times in a way that destroyed careers prematurely. Plus he’s defensive schemes blow ass in the new NBA. I wouldn’t let him within ten miles of my roster.

Oh and Noah is another NY castoff.