Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years"

[WindyCityBorn]

George Floyd was put down like a dog a few days ago.

This post is trash. They're humans in a **** **** situation. Seeing them as dogs is evil in itself.

I don't think George Floyd fits the description of the type of people he was referring to.

And lots of people are in **** situations, doesn't mean they have to resort to living their lives as a**holes and make it miserable for everyone around them.

Nobody should be referred to as dogs. Nobody should be locked up and put down like dogs.

Cool. Then things will continue as they are. Once you act like a monster you should be treated like one. Your show of compassion for serial killers is a mistake.

[Susan]

I don't think George Floyd fits the description of the type of people he was referring to.

And lots of people are in **** situations, doesn't mean they have to resort to living their lives as a**holes and make it miserable for everyone around them.

Nobody should be referred to as dogs. Nobody should be locked up and put down like dogs.

Cool. Then things will continue as they are. Once you act like a monster you should be treated like one. Your show of compassion for serial killers is a mistake.

Stop dehumanizing people, in particular black people.

[Ccwatercraft]

Also I generally favor decriminalization of drugs, but I've got to think that we should at least ponder drastically increasing criminal penalties for dealing coke, heroin, etc. Not all countries have this problem.

Another idea I've had is to make search and seizure for drugs somehow exempt from criminal search warrant requirements. Basically cops could come in and confiscate drugs based on much lower criteria than is required for a criminal search warrant, but it would be basically a CDC (centers for disease control) thing. They couldn't arrest anyone, but they could confiscate over and over almost at will,

If you don't think that will be abused immediately and en masse - I don't know what to tell you.

which may drive prices through the roof and drastically decrease the problem.

You've just increased crime. The demand for the drug remains - they'll find new ways to pay for it. An addict is still an addict - regardless how much that drug is selling for. If anything you'l see even more deaths from dirty drugs and fentanyl.

I think at its heart the violence problem on Chicago is a drug problem.

Economics / drugs / systemic racism / education all play into it.

The best thing we could do for this city and cities all across this country is to stop the ridiculous war on drugs. Stop militarizing our police forces. Take all of that money and sink it into education, addiction/recovery, and jobs programs. Stop putting generation after generation into prison for addiction and mental health issues.

We've incentivized our cities and police forces to arrest and imprison as many people as possible. We need to focus on rehabilitation rather than incarceration - but there is far too much money to be made from private prisons and federal grants for city/state government to do the right thing.

99% of drug users are otherwise law abiding citizens. Give them a legal way to go buy drugs from a store and pick out bags of dope just like you pick out broccoli or bananas and suddenly every street dealer will go out of business. You'll significantly reduce the power of the criminal network and significantly increase revenue. I'm not just talking about Marijuana, just let it all fly people are going to find drugs to do, and yes theirs going to be negative consciousnesses of use of hard drugs, both medical and social but what
we are currently doing is increasing the damage to extend to non-users and putting a cash-cow into the hands of career criminals.

If you could walk into CVS and buy a labeled dose of Heroin it would lower the chance of accidental overdosing/drug tampering.

Plus I think most people could use a mega dose of entheogens and experience an ego death or 2 before they actually die.

I'm not convinced that legalizing would eliminate street dealers, but I do feel that It would make a measurable dent. As far as overdoses go, it seems like a no brainer that it would reduce them but I do feel that it would increase the number of users, which is a real serious concern IMO because things like heroin destroy lives.

re: increased usage, that's a bit terrifying to me, considering just how crazy the whole medicinal/recreational marijuana thing has gone. So many people I know are now using medicinal MJ its ridiculous. These are the same ones that judged anyone that used it even casually before it became legal. I know at least 10 people that would never even consider MJ or drops before that are daily users. Now I have some relatives that if we call, we better call before 8pm before the drops kick in because they are loopy as hell, add in a couple glasses of wine and they are pretty dam buzzed. Now that we (FL) are offering smokeable weed I'm starting to see more of that as well because the stigma has been removed.

The weed stuff doesn't bother me much, and the medicinal stuff is pretty amazing stuff, but beyond that It terrifies me to think that people will begin to explore a whole new world of much more serious drugs if they become available and those drugs will be more addicting, more expensive, and have more serious repercussions.

With that said, admittedly the current program really isn't working, there is a massive black market, serious criminal activity and of course unregulated product is out there thinning the herd every day. Gov't is spending massive amounts of money and are barely making a dent, or so it seems. The demand for serious drugs seems to be there (why I have no idea, not my thing) so maybe it is time to just let them destroy their lives while no longer dedicating resources to try to stop them from doing so and just dealing with the after effects (rehab)

[WindyCityBorn]

Nobody should be referred to as dogs. Nobody should be locked up and put down like dogs.

Cool. Then things will continue as they are. Once you act like a monster you should be treated like one. Your show of compassion for serial killers is a mistake.

Stop dehumanizing people, in particular black people.

I'm black. I call it like I see it.

[logical_art]

It's crazy how little attention this gets compared to the killing of one guy by police. I understand there's a difference - you expect police to protect you and therefore it's worse when they do the opposite. But is it 10x worse? Where's the protest and outrage when 10 people get killed in a weekend?

[wonderboy2]

It's crazy how little attention this gets compared to the killing of one guy by police. I understand there's a difference - you expect police to protect you and therefore it's worse when they do the opposite. But is it 10x worse? Where's the protest and outrage when 10 people get killed in a weekend?

You have a point but I try to help you out alittle bit. A lot of African Americans have grown up and have had some very bad encounters with police officers. Believe it or not A lot of have been harassed and been victims of blatant police brutality and no strict actions or consequences are done. I know a lot of African Americans when they saw the footage of the man being MURDERED, thought to themselves, “that could be me on that ground and it’s nonthing I could do about it.” If the African American man tried to defend himself vs the police he’s viewed as the criminal to the public. But if he doesn’t fight back he just another murdered African American. It’s not just about 1 MAN being MURDERED by the police. It happens way more than you think. I think it’s at a point where Minority have had enough of the police brutality that’s been going on for Decades. It’s a shame because not all police are bad.

[dice]

It's crazy how little attention this gets compared to the killing of one guy by police. I understand there's a difference - you expect police to protect you and therefore it's worse when they do the opposite. But is it 10x worse? Where's the protest and outrage when 10 people get killed in a weekend?

who would be protested against?

there are very easy fixes to the situation in minneapolis. it starts with police training and it extends to the disciplining of those who do not adhere to that training. the harder part is changing the entrenched culture where good cops cover for bad cops. some sort of conviction of the 3 cops who stood by while the victim was killed would sent a message in that regard. not sure what that would be, though, or even if it would be fair. they obviously deserved to be fired and they obviously don't deserve the same charges as the murderer. in between it gets sticky

hooray for cell phone cameras and those who use them to document this stuff

[Dominator83]

Cool. Then things will continue as they are. Once you act like a monster you should be treated like one. Your show of compassion for serial killers is a mistake.

Stop dehumanizing people, in particular black people.

I'm black. I call it like I see it.

Kudos to you. Never ever wants to call things the way they are. Which is why we have all the problems we have. I agree that anybody whos willing to commit murder, armed robbery, etc, doesn't deserve to walk this earth, regardless of color. Nobody should get a free pass. I've never cared about colors when it comes to people. If your a good guy, i like you. If your a prick, I dont like you. Its really pretty simple. I actually felt that in high school (atleast the one i went to), that white kids were much bigger jagoffs than the black ones were. So i liked the Black kids better

[Dresden]

It's crazy how little attention this gets compared to the killing of one guy by police. I understand there's a difference - you expect police to protect you and therefore it's worse when they do the opposite. But is it 10x worse? Where's the protest and outrage when 10 people get killed in a weekend?

who would be protested against?

there are very easy fixes to the situation in minneapolis. it starts with police training and it extends to the disciplining of those who do not adhere to that training. the harder part is changing the entrenched culture where good cops cover for bad cops. some sort of conviction of the 3 cops who stood by while the victim was killed would sent a message in that regard. not sure what that would be, though, or even if it would be fair. they obviously deserved to be fired and they obviously don't deserve the same charges as the murderer. in between it gets sticky

hooray for cell phone cameras and those who use them to document this stuff

They had done a lot of training in Minn though, and it didn't work. I wonder if it would be a good idea to make sure every two man patrol is made up of at least one person of color. And maybe extensive psychological testing of current police officers, to try to weed out the psycho's. I know they get tested when they first get in, but there obviously are some really twisted cops on duty that should not be. In general, a more integrated police force would help a lot, IMO. When the numbers are more equal, racially, then white cops won't feel like they can get away with as much.

[dice]

It's crazy how little attention this gets compared to the killing of one guy by police. I understand there's a difference - you expect police to protect you and therefore it's worse when they do the opposite. But is it 10x worse? Where's the protest and outrage when 10 people get killed in a weekend?

who would be protested against?

there are very easy fixes to the situation in minneapolis. it starts with police training and it extends to the disciplining of those who do not adhere to that training. the harder part is changing the entrenched culture where good cops cover for bad cops. some sort of conviction of the 3 cops who stood by while the victim was killed would sent a message in that regard. not sure what that would be, though, or even if it would be fair. they obviously deserved to be fired and they obviously don't deserve the same charges as the murderer. in between it gets sticky

hooray for cell phone cameras and those who use them to document this stuff

They had done a lot of training in Minn though, and it didn't work. I wonder if it would be a good idea to make sure every two man patrol is made up of at least one person of color.

that would require the police force to be majority minority. which is not necessarily a bad thing, but doesn't seem reasonable in a whole lot of locales. plus, the spineless guy running cover for the murderer was not caucasian in this particular instance

And maybe extensive psychological testing of current police officers, to try to weed out the psycho's.

and the power hungry. basically all of the megalomaniacs

In general, a more integrated police force would help a lot, IMO. When the numbers are more equal, racially, then white cops won't feel like they can get away with as much.

for sure. the makeup of a police force should represent the population they are paid to protect

[logical_art]

It's crazy how little attention this gets compared to the killing of one guy by police. I understand there's a difference - you expect police to protect you and therefore it's worse when they do the opposite. But is it 10x worse? Where's the protest and outrage when 10 people get killed in a weekend?

who would be protested against?

there are very easy fixes to the situation in minneapolis. it starts with police training and it extends to the disciplining of those who do not adhere to that training. the harder part is changing the entrenched culture where good cops cover for bad cops. some sort of conviction of the 3 cops who stood by while the victim was killed would sent a message in that regard. not sure what that would be, though, or even if it would be fair. they obviously deserved to be fired and they obviously don't deserve the same charges as the murderer. in between it gets sticky

hooray for cell phone cameras and those who use them to document this stuff

Outrage isn't strategic, almost by definition. The point of the matter is that police killings are small fraction of murders and yet result in a vastly outsize portion of media attention and outrage. And if we're honest, its please killings of black people that the media and protesters care about, despite lack of strong evidence that there is a disproportionate risk for innocent black people to be killed by police (see links below).

The media knows that the shooting of black person sells well and over reports them in comparison with police killings of other races. This makes the public think that its some egregious and outsized risk for black folks when there isn't statistical evidence to support this view. This leads to protests, vandalism/economic losses and further loss of lives, esp. now during COVID 19. It also leads to worse policing and in some cities an increase in crime.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877

This is not to apologize for criminal police officers who should be treated as such. It's only to say the cases of police brutality against black people consume a super disproportionate amount of our national attention and outrage.

[League Circles]

The notion that fixing crime, including crime by police officers, is easy, is preposterous IMO.

IMO, you should expect murderers among the ranks in every occupation. So although we'd like there to be no murderous cops, I think the expectation that that could ever happen is actually an anti-science mindset.

We should certainly always strive to continually reduce such crimes. And I agree that would include better training but it's not that clear exactly what the shortcomings of the current training standards are. I very often hear people advocate for better training without identifying what exactly is wrong with the current training other than just the implication that if cops are killing people the training must be bad. I think maybe even more importantly we should draw better people to police forces by offering more pay and having higher standards of recruitment.

Just as police officers are trained not to wrongly kill innocent people, regular citizens are trained by family, friends, schools etc to not murder each other, and just like some cops, some regular citizens murder each other anyway. Homicide isn't unusual among primates from what I understand.

[dice]

It's crazy how little attention this gets compared to the killing of one guy by police. I understand there's a difference - you expect police to protect you and therefore it's worse when they do the opposite. But is it 10x worse? Where's the protest and outrage when 10 people get killed in a weekend?

who would be protested against?

there are very easy fixes to the situation in minneapolis. it starts with police training and it extends to the disciplining of those who do not adhere to that training. the harder part is changing the entrenched culture where good cops cover for bad cops. some sort of conviction of the 3 cops who stood by while the victim was killed would sent a message in that regard. not sure what that would be, though, or even if it would be fair. they obviously deserved to be fired and they obviously don't deserve the same charges as the murderer. in between it gets sticky

hooray for cell phone cameras and those who use them to document this stuff

Outrage isn't strategic, almost by definition. The point of the matter is that police killings are small fraction of murders and yet result in a vastly outsize portion of media attention and outrage. And if we're honest, its please killings of black people that the media and protesters care about, despite lack of strong evidence that there is a disproportionate risk for innocent black people to be killed by police (see links below).

The media knows that the shooting of black person sells well and over reports them in comparison with police killings of other races. This makes the public think that its some egregious and outsized risk for black folks when there isn't statistical evidence to support this view. This leads to protests, vandalism/economic losses and further loss of lives, esp. now during COVID 19. It also leads to worse policing and in some cities an increase in crime.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877

the first link you provided suggests just the opposite. 27% of people shot by police were black (698/2586), whereas blacks represent only 13% of the overall population. and i suspect that the "unknowns" are disproportionately black because the departments don't want the race of the victim to be public

[logical_art]

who would be protested against?

there are very easy fixes to the situation in minneapolis. it starts with police training and it extends to the disciplining of those who do not adhere to that training. the harder part is changing the entrenched culture where good cops cover for bad cops. some sort of conviction of the 3 cops who stood by while the victim was killed would sent a message in that regard. not sure what that would be, though, or even if it would be fair. they obviously deserved to be fired and they obviously don't deserve the same charges as the murderer. in between it gets sticky

hooray for cell phone cameras and those who use them to document this stuff

Outrage isn't strategic, almost by definition. The point of the matter is that police killings are small fraction of murders and yet result in a vastly outsize portion of media attention and outrage. And if we're honest, its please killings of black people that the media and protesters care about, despite lack of strong evidence that there is a disproportionate risk for innocent black people to be killed by police (see links below).

The media knows that the shooting of black person sells well and over reports them in comparison with police killings of other races. This makes the public think that its some egregious and outsized risk for black folks when there isn't statistical evidence to support this view. This leads to protests, vandalism/economic losses and further loss of lives, esp. now during COVID 19. It also leads to worse policing and in some cities an increase in crime.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877

the first link you provided suggests just the opposite. 27% of people shot by police were black (698/2586), whereas blacks represent only 13% of the overall population. and i suspect that the "unknowns" are disproportionately black because the departments don't want the race of the victim to be public

Black people also commit/are arrested for a disproportionate amount of crime leading to disproportionate amount of interactions with police. That's what the PNAS paper accounts for.

Nevertheless, whens the last time you saw massive media attention and riots for a person killed by the police who was another race?

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

[dice]

Outrage isn't strategic, almost by definition. The point of the matter is that police killings are small fraction of murders and yet result in a vastly outsize portion of media attention and outrage. And if we're honest, its please killings of black people that the media and protesters care about, despite lack of strong evidence that there is a disproportionate risk for innocent black people to be killed by police (see links below).

The media knows that the shooting of black person sells well and over reports them in comparison with police killings of other races. This makes the public think that its some egregious and outsized risk for black folks when there isn't statistical evidence to support this view. This leads to protests, vandalism/economic losses and further loss of lives, esp. now during COVID 19. It also leads to worse policing and in some cities an increase in crime.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877

the first link you provided suggests just the opposite. 27% of people shot by police were black (698/2586), whereas blacks represent only 13% of the overall population. and i suspect that the "unknowns" are disproportionately black because the departments don't want the race of the victim to be public

Black people also commit/are arrested for a disproportionate amount of crime leading to disproportionate amount of interactions with police. That's what the PNAS paper accounts for.

well, that's different from what you initially said. not sure why you included the first link

Nevertheless, whens the last time you saw massive media attention and riots for a person killed by the police who was another race?

i'm certainly not going to claim that the media doesn't sensationalize, but surely you understand that there's another layer to a black person being unnecessarily killed/injured/harassed by cops given this nation's racial history

there's a reason why even famous black people get nervous when a cop pulls them over. and black people regularly get pulled over for BS reasons. this goes well beyond incidents of violence

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chris-rock-cops-pulled-over_n_6984720?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAv1WgpnQTCCFOJqbTV2WhQULsoIfj3zPJT9SVa4WA-uIUswYQCkJ0UuhJnBjc0aJ8hbSVD6xOBmsT-4E98G0xW8cDl6SIfLpQbSy-buEW05NXOuDf5BV--h0ODZzxe4SMGFS3wv8ZOy9Hkj8prjbDZfvNPk8dZkFS07Q8Dfsga4

[Dominator83]

Outrage isn't strategic, almost by definition. The point of the matter is that police killings are small fraction of murders and yet result in a vastly outsize portion of media attention and outrage. And if we're honest, its please killings of black people that the media and protesters care about, despite lack of strong evidence that there is a disproportionate risk for innocent black people to be killed by police (see links below).

The media knows that the shooting of black person sells well and over reports them in comparison with police killings of other races. This makes the public think that its some egregious and outsized risk for black folks when there isn't statistical evidence to support this view. This leads to protests, vandalism/economic losses and further loss of lives, esp. now during COVID 19. It also leads to worse policing and in some cities an increase in crime.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877

the first link you provided suggests just the opposite. 27% of people shot by police were black (698/2586), whereas blacks represent only 13% of the overall population. and i suspect that the "unknowns" are disproportionately black because the departments don't want the race of the victim to be public

Black people also commit/are arrested for a disproportionate amount of crime leading to disproportionate amount of interactions with police. That's what the PNAS paper accounts for.

Nevertheless, whens the last time you saw massive media attention and riots for a person killed by the police who was another race?

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

There never is. Almost 1900 non-blacks killed by police and you never hear a word about any of them. Maybe a small snippet in the local news, but that would be about it. It doesn't create chaos and controversy to report on. The news media salivates at these riots.

[dice]

the first link you provided suggests just the opposite. 27% of people shot by police were black (698/2586), whereas blacks represent only 13% of the overall population. and i suspect that the "unknowns" are disproportionately black because the departments don't want the race of the victim to be public

Black people also commit/are arrested for a disproportionate amount of crime leading to disproportionate amount of interactions with police. That's what the PNAS paper accounts for.

Nevertheless, whens the last time you saw massive media attention and riots for a person killed by the police who was another race?

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

There never is. Almost 1900 non-blacks killed by police and you never hear a word about any of them. Maybe a small snippet in the local news, but that would be about it. It doesn't create chaos and controversy to report on. The news media salivates at these riots.

why the hell would the news media not be eager to cover a damn RIOT? and i reject the notion that any halfway normal person working in the media wants these events to occur. maybe the craven honchos who chase ratings over all else. or ground reporters who want a lot of eyeballs on them

where are the cell phone videos of white people being treated poorly and unnecessarily by cops. surely they're floating around out there online if they exist. so find 'em. i can guarantee that right wing media's been searching far and wide

[Dresden]

I think the notion that this is all just a media created issue is way off base. As is the fact that non-blacks are also killed by police. It ignores the long history of racism in this country, and the day to day experience of not only brutality, but being singled out by race of many minorities. I think it's been pretty well documented in numerous studies the ways in which minorities face discrimination by the criminal justice system, whether that is getting pulled over more often, getting stopped and frisked more often, being reported by non-minorities for suspicious behavior (like the recent incidence in Central Park), and getting harsher sentences.

[logical_art]

I think the notion that this is all just a media created issue is way off base. As is the fact that non-blacks are also killed by police. It ignores the long history of racism in this country, and the day to day experience of not only brutality, but being singled out by race of many minorities. I think it's been pretty well documented in numerous studies the ways in which minorities face discrimination by the criminal justice system, whether that is getting pulled over more often, getting stopped and frisked more often, being reported by non-minorities for suspicious behavior (like the recent incidence in Central Park), and getting harsher sentences.

I understand the history and dont claim it's purely media driven. There's obviously a partially justified resentment simmering, just like the partially justified resentment among poor whites that Trump plays to (not comparing which resentment is more justified - the history is obvious). But the media sure does stoke the flames. And they sure prefer covering a killing of black man and being very specific about the race of all those involved compared to other killings between other races. And whens the last time you saw the non-right media call out protesters and be like we understand why you're upset but maybe don't destroy the property of people who are not at all involved in what happened?

[wonderboy2]

It’s because a lot of people on here will never experience what African Americans have to go through on a DAILY basis with the police. People on this board are very good at statistics. I know a lot of police officers and some of them even admit that they had multiple instances were they seen coworkers go overboard on African Americans. And you are Misinformed if you think the police report everything they do especially in inner city areas. There’s been instances where a black guy who absolutely is no threat have 4 police officers surrounding his car with their flashlights flashing on his face and guns drawn. Do you think a blonde white women would get that same treatment if she wasn’t labeled a threat? This is a story because contrary to what people on this board believes the Police has been murdering African Americans for decades without any consequence. Like I said in my previous post not all police are bad. But it’s well documented that African Americans have been victims to a lot of senseless police brutality without any consequences.