Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years"

[Dominator83]

I think the notion that this is all just a media created issue is way off base. As is the fact that non-blacks are also killed by police. It ignores the long history of racism in this country, and the day to day experience of not only brutality, but being singled out by race of many minorities. I think it's been pretty well documented in numerous studies the ways in which minorities face discrimination by the criminal justice system, whether that is getting pulled over more often, getting stopped and frisked more often, being reported by non-minorities for suspicious behavior (like the recent incidence in Central Park), and getting harsher sentences.

I understand the history and dont claim it's purely media driven. There's obviously a partially justified resentment simmering, just like the partially justified resentment among poor whites that Trump plays to (not comparing which resentment is more justified - the history is obvious). But the media sure does stoke the flames. And they sure prefer covering a killing of black man and being very specific about the race of all those involved compared to other killings between other races. And whens the last time you saw the non-right media call out protesters and be like we understand why you're upset but maybe don't destroy the property of people who are not at all involved in what happened?

Exactly. Criminals love using these things as an excuse to riot. Like burning down an Auto Zone. What the eff do the people at auto zone have to do with what that cop did? Or any of those other local businesses? And why are there protests here in Chicago? This wasn't a CPD incident. This wasn't even an Illinois incident.

[logical_art]

Even burning down the police building is wrong. It's like burning down the family home of a criminal.

But I've distracted from the thread subject long enough. My main point is that I wish we saw the same or more (but better directed) attention and passion/outrage applied to much bigger and more consequential issues like urban poverty and crime (like on the South Side). Because attention and passion/outrage are finite, we are worse off when they're disproportionately invoked for less consequential causes like police killings.

[Wingy]

Black people also commit/are arrested for a disproportionate amount of crime leading to disproportionate amount of interactions with police. That's what the PNAS paper accounts for.

Nevertheless, whens the last time you saw massive media attention and riots for a person killed by the police who was another race?

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

There never is. Almost 1900 non-blacks killed by police and you never hear a word about any of them. Maybe a small snippet in the local news, but that would be about it. It doesn't create chaos and controversy to report on. The news media salivates at these riots.

why the hell would the news media not be eager to cover a damn RIOT? and i reject the notion that any halfway normal person working in the media wants these events to occur. maybe the craven honchos who chase ratings over all else. or ground reporters who want a lot of eyeballs on them

where are the cell phone videos of white people being treated poorly and unnecessarily by cops. surely they're floating around out there online if they exist. so find 'em. i can guarantee that right wing media's been searching far and wide

Anecdotal for sure...but a pretty good point. Would these not go viral?

I find it interesting how many people seem to think the media is some kind of non-profit, socially conscious organization that is legally bound to serve us the full story, and unbiased truth at all turns. They’re in it to make money, and boost ratings. Like any show, book, or magazine - it’s up to individuals to decide whether it’s quality (i.e. - balanced, unbiased), half-assed, just plain rubbish...or what it likely is for most networks - just part of the story.

[Wingy]

Even burning down the police building is wrong. It's like burning down the family home of a criminal.

But I've distracted from the thread subject long enough. My main point is that I wish we saw the same or more (but better directed) attention and passion/outrage applied to much bigger and more consequential issues like urban poverty and crime (like on the South Side). Because attention and passion/outrage are finite, we are worse off when they're disproportionately invoked for less consequential causes as in the case of police killings.

The latter is a symptom of the former though. Paraphrasing, you said that black people being disproportionately killed can be correlated to black people being disproportionately involved with police to begin with.

Why is that? It’s either because they are A) disproportionately effed by the ills of our society, or B) a bunch of racist stereotypes are true.

I agree the coverage could/should shift to root causes, but that story’s boring...and there are no easy answers (see failings in this thread despite many ideas)...so it’s complex, and we have to take time out of our daily lives to really, truly think, and understand an enormous amount of nuance that most people can’t relate to. That takes a lot deeper research to understand- or we’ll need a complete and utter sea change in media coverage to run constant top stories on poverty, culture, etc.

As I said in my last post - that sadly doesn’t sell anything in our breakneck speed society...and at their heart - most all the media are for profit businesses. Plus, sadly...there’s way too many people in this country that will say that “B)” is a simple truth. Of course, intent gets cloudy via the written word, so just in case - I am not suggesting you are one of them by any means.

[wonderboy2]

I think the notion that this is all just a media created issue is way off base. As is the fact that non-blacks are also killed by police. It ignores the long history of racism in this country, and the day to day experience of not only brutality, but being singled out by race of many minorities. I think it's been pretty well documented in numerous studies the ways in which minorities face discrimination by the criminal justice system, whether that is getting pulled over more often, getting stopped and frisked more often, being reported by non-minorities for suspicious behavior (like the recent incidence in Central Park), and getting harsher sentences.

I understand the history and dont claim it's purely media driven. There's obviously a partially justified resentment simmering, just like the partially justified resentment among poor whites that Trump plays to (not comparing which resentment is more justified - the history is obvious). But the media sure does stoke the flames. And they sure prefer covering a killing of black man and being very specific about the race of all those involved compared to other killings between other races. And whens the last time you saw the non-right media call out protesters and be like we understand why you're upset but maybe don't destroy the property of people who are not at all involved in what happened?

Well I answer this question as well. A lot of the time when an African American is killed by the police its no justice. I have a friend who is who grew up ABSOLUTELY terrified of the police because they killed his 2 uncles thinking that they were somebody else. Do you think those police were put in prison? Absolutely not? Do you think they would be in prison if the police made a mistake and killed a Caucasian women? I’m willing to bet my bottom dollar they would. A lot of times the police get off easy for MURDERING African Americans. They might get fired but on some instances they end up finding work elsewhere with no prison time (sometimes even cushy work). Also let’s not include the numerous times police has set up innocent African Americans by planting weapons and drugs on them because they feel they have no power or other recourses to help like other races do. And don’t be mistaken, in the inner cities the police rough up African American men on a DAILY basis. What you see on camera is only a small taste of what happens on a daily basis to African Americans that don’t get recorded.

[logical_art]

I think the notion that this is all just a media created issue is way off base. As is the fact that non-blacks are also killed by police. It ignores the long history of racism in this country, and the day to day experience of not only brutality, but being singled out by race of many minorities. I think it's been pretty well documented in numerous studies the ways in which minorities face discrimination by the criminal justice system, whether that is getting pulled over more often, getting stopped and frisked more often, being reported by non-minorities for suspicious behavior (like the recent incidence in Central Park), and getting harsher sentences.

I understand the history and dont claim it's purely media driven. There's obviously a partially justified resentment simmering, just like the partially justified resentment among poor whites that Trump plays to (not comparing which resentment is more justified - the history is obvious). But the media sure does stoke the flames. And they sure prefer covering a killing of black man and being very specific about the race of all those involved compared to other killings between other races. And whens the last time you saw the non-right media call out protesters and be like we understand why you're upset but maybe don't destroy the property of people who are not at all involved in what happened?

Well I answer this question as well. A lot of the time when an African American is killed by the police its no justice. I have a friend who is who grew up ABSOLUTELY terrified of the police because they killed his 2 uncles thinking that they were somebody else. Do you think those police were put in prison? Absolutely not? Do you think they would be in prison if the police made a mistake and killed a Caucasian women? I’m willing to bet my bottom dollar they would. A lot of times the police get off easy for MURDERING African Americans. They might get fired but on some instances they end up finding work elsewhere with no prison time (sometimes even cushy work). Also let’s not include the numerous times police has set up innocent African Americans by planting weapons and drugs on them because they feel they have no power or other recourses to help like other races do. And don’t be mistaken, in the inner cities the police rough up African American men on a DAILY basis. What you see on camera is only a small taste of what happens on a daily basis to African Americans that don’t get recorded.

I don't deny that this happens and I empathize with the frustration and anger it would cause. But what about when a neighborhood is plagued by poverty, crime and murder year after year? Where is the outrage towards the criminals and police and politicians over that? Where's the outrage applied as constructive action to improve the situation? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it doesn't seem to be proportionate to the problem, or at least its not reported proportionately.

I think there's a natural human tendency to blame other kinds of people for ones own problems. Some whites blame immigration (i.e. non-whites) for their poor economic situations. Some poorly run Arab countries blame Israel for their bad situations. Neither of these stories entirely baseless, but they trigger emotions that distract from much larger and complex problems that aren't the fault of the "other". I think this is the case with the reactions to police shooting too.

[dice]

I think the notion that this is all just a media created issue is way off base. As is the fact that non-blacks are also killed by police. It ignores the long history of racism in this country, and the day to day experience of not only brutality, but being singled out by race of many minorities. I think it's been pretty well documented in numerous studies the ways in which minorities face discrimination by the criminal justice system, whether that is getting pulled over more often, getting stopped and frisked more often, being reported by non-minorities for suspicious behavior (like the recent incidence in Central Park), and getting harsher sentences.

I understand the history and dont claim it's purely media driven. There's obviously a partially justified resentment simmering, just like the partially justified resentment among poor whites that Trump plays to (not comparing which resentment is more justified - the history is obvious). But the media sure does stoke the flames. And they sure prefer covering a killing of black man and being very specific about the race of all those involved compared to other killings between other races. And whens the last time you saw the non-right media call out protesters and be like we understand why you're upset but maybe don't destroy the property of people who are not at all involved in what happened?

Well I answer this question as well. A lot of the time when an African American is killed by the police its no justice. I have a friend who is who grew up ABSOLUTELY terrified of the police because they killed his 2 uncles thinking that they were somebody else. Do you think those police were put in prison? Absolutely not? Do you think they would be in prison if the police made a mistake and killed a Caucasian women? I’m willing to bet my bottom dollar they would. A lot of times the police get off easy for MURDERING African Americans. They might get fired but on some instances they end up finding work elsewhere with no prison time (sometimes even cushy work). Also let’s not include the numerous times police has set up innocent African Americans by planting weapons and drugs on them because they feel they have no power or other recourses to help like other races do. And don’t be mistaken, in the inner cities the police rough up African American men on a DAILY basis. What you see on camera is only a small taste of what happens on a daily basis to African Americans that don’t get recorded.

police are always going to get the benefit of the doubt. and they should. which is why these citizen videos are so important. if this wasn't filmed the fradulent police report the officers filed would have been believed

[League Circles]

Anyone else think there should probably be cameras on every corner in the city?

[wonderboy2]

I understand the history and dont claim it's purely media driven. There's obviously a partially justified resentment simmering, just like the partially justified resentment among poor whites that Trump plays to (not comparing which resentment is more justified - the history is obvious). But the media sure does stoke the flames. And they sure prefer covering a killing of black man and being very specific about the race of all those involved compared to other killings between other races. And whens the last time you saw the non-right media call out protesters and be like we understand why you're upset but maybe don't destroy the property of people who are not at all involved in what happened?

Well I answer this question as well. A lot of the time when an African American is killed by the police its no justice. I have a friend who is who grew up ABSOLUTELY terrified of the police because they killed his 2 uncles thinking that they were somebody else. Do you think those police were put in prison? Absolutely not? Do you think they would be in prison if the police made a mistake and killed a Caucasian women? I’m willing to bet my bottom dollar they would. A lot of times the police get off easy for MURDERING African Americans. They might get fired but on some instances they end up finding work elsewhere with no prison time (sometimes even cushy work). Also let’s not include the numerous times police has set up innocent African Americans by planting weapons and drugs on them because they feel they have no power or other recourses to help like other races do. And don’t be mistaken, in the inner cities the police rough up African American men on a DAILY basis. What you see on camera is only a small taste of what happens on a daily basis to African Americans that don’t get recorded.

I don't deny that this happens and I empathize with the frustration and anger it would cause. But what about when a neighborhood is plagued by poverty, crime and murder year after year? Where is the outrage towards the criminals and police and politicians over that? Where's the outrage applied as constructive action to improve the situation? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it doesn't seem to be proportionate to the problem, or at least its not reported proportionately.

I think there's a natural human tendency to blame other kinds of people for ones own problems. Some whites blame immigration (i.e. non-whites) for their poor economic situations. Some poorly run Arab countries blame Israel for their bad situations. Neither of these stories entirely baseless, but they trigger emotions that distract from much larger and complex problems that aren't the fault of the "other". I think this is the case with the reactions to police shooting too.

I don’t think it’s distracting from anything. Everybody who is close to the situation knows what the these communities are like. But very little is ever done for these higher crime poverty communities just like very little is ever done about the police brutality on minorities. Both issues need light spread on them honestly. I don’t think it’s necessary minorities blaming the officers or non-minorities for problems such as poverty and gang violence. If that’s what you are referring to. But I think minorities are just at a tipping point of them being racially profiled, harrased, discriminated against, bullied, and Murdered by police without any consequences. Most people only see videos of what happened and think oh this is a rare occurrence. But some people who have grown up and those environments or are living in those environments currently are tired of feeling scared and nervous every-time they see a police officer even if they committed no crime. These events happen DAILY in inner cities and to African Americans in general it’s just not always recorded or reported.

[Kurt Heimlich]

The police officers who killed george floyd are human murdering criminals. And so are the Chicago citizen/crimminals who are way too frequently and consistently found on the south side of Chicago murdering handfuls of other innocent human being citizens on these summer weekends. And absolutely they are often Black. The difference from protesting and not is that the Police are supposed to be the good guys.Criminals will be criminals and must prosecuted. Its a fight that must be fought. But when the people charged with upholding these rights of the innocent become in fact the murders is when we should absolutely object and call for change.

[League Circles]

The police officers who killed george floyd are human murdering criminals. And so are the Chicago citizen/crimminals who are way too frequently and consistently found on the south side of Chicago murdering handfuls of other innocent human being citizens on these summer weekends. And absolutely they are often Black. The difference from protesting and not is that the Police are supposed to be the good guys.Criminals will be criminals and must prosecuted. Its a fight that must be fought. But when the people charged with upholding these rights of the innocent become in fact the murders is when we should absolutely object and call for change.

Regular people aren't also supposed to be "good guys"?

We should absolutely object, and strongly, to police murders and brutality. And to other unjustified killings.

Change in outcomes or change in policy?

What precise policy changes should we be protesting for? I'm definitely open to ideas and have offered some myself. I don't follow the protests closely but sometimes it feels like the message is excessively vague and basically amounts to "we're sick of murder, make it stop". Which is a reasonable plea, but probably not an effective one IMO.

[logical_art]

The police officers who killed george floyd are human murdering criminals. And so are the Chicago citizen/crimminals who are way too frequently and consistently found on the south side of Chicago murdering handfuls of other innocent human being citizens on these summer weekends. And absolutely they are often Black. The difference from protesting and not is that the Police are supposed to be the good guys.Criminals will be criminals and must prosecuted. Its a fight that must be fought. But when the people charged with upholding these rights of the innocent become in fact the murders is when we should absolutely object and call for change.

In 2016, 2,870 black people were murdered by criminals, not police. In 2019, 235 black people were killed by police. We can assume a a significantly smaller number were not threatening the life of police and therefore essentially murders. So about 20x the number of people were murdered by criminals than by police. And yet the outrage and protest and media coverage seems like its inverse. Is that really justified? Is the killing of an innocent by a cop really more than 20x worse than the killing of an innocent by a criminal? And is that use of anger and outrage really going to produce the best results in terms of saving peoples lives in the future? Consider peoples limited attention and outrage, as well as the additional strain riots put on police - black community relations that likely make policing less effective.

[Kurt Heimlich]

The police officers who killed george floyd are human murdering criminals. And so are the Chicago citizen/crimminals who are way too frequently and consistently found on the south side of Chicago murdering handfuls of other innocent human being citizens on these summer weekends. And absolutely they are often Black. The difference from protesting and not is that the Police are supposed to be the good guys.Criminals will be criminals and must prosecuted. Its a fight that must be fought. But when the people charged with upholding these rights of the innocent become in fact the murders is when we should absolutely object and call for change.

Regular people aren't also supposed to be "good guys"?

We should absolutely object, and strongly, to police murders and brutality. And to other unjustified killings.

Change in outcomes or change in policy?

What precise policy changes should we be protesting for? I'm definitely open to ideas and have offered some myself. I don't follow the protests closely but sometimes it feels like the message is excessively vague and basically amounts to "we're sick of murder, make it stop". Which is a reasonable plea, but probably not an effective one IMO.

"We're" protesting for basic human personal freedom of life rights. AKA if I'm not a risk to another human's life, you in return as a professional keeper of human peace should not be a risk to my life.

And this is a fundamental flaw that we are seeing over and over again in cases like this absolutely horrifying George Floyd case.

[League Circles]

The police officers who killed george floyd are human murdering criminals. And so are the Chicago citizen/crimminals who are way too frequently and consistently found on the south side of Chicago murdering handfuls of other innocent human being citizens on these summer weekends. And absolutely they are often Black. The difference from protesting and not is that the Police are supposed to be the good guys.Criminals will be criminals and must prosecuted. Its a fight that must be fought. But when the people charged with upholding these rights of the innocent become in fact the murders is when we should absolutely object and call for change.

Regular people aren't also supposed to be "good guys"?

We should absolutely object, and strongly, to police murders and brutality. And to other unjustified killings.

Change in outcomes or change in policy?

What precise policy changes should we be protesting for? I'm definitely open to ideas and have offered some myself. I don't follow the protests closely but sometimes it feels like the message is excessively vague and basically amounts to "we're sick of murder, make it stop". Which is a reasonable plea, but probably not an effective one IMO.

"We're" protesting for basic human personal freedom of life rights. AKA if I'm not a risk to another human's life, you in return as a professional keeper of human peace should not be a risk to my life.

And this is a fundamental flaw that we are seeing over and over again in cases like this absolutely horrifying George Floyd case.

Problem is, these rights are already codified at the highest levels and no one disagrees with them. So we're still stuck at "we're sick of murder, make it stop", which might approach a universally held belief in this country. We still need actual specific actions and policies.

[logical_art]

The police officers who killed george floyd are human murdering criminals. And so are the Chicago citizen/crimminals who are way too frequently and consistently found on the south side of Chicago murdering handfuls of other innocent human being citizens on these summer weekends. And absolutely they are often Black. The difference from protesting and not is that the Police are supposed to be the good guys.Criminals will be criminals and must prosecuted. Its a fight that must be fought. But when the people charged with upholding these rights of the innocent become in fact the murders is when we should absolutely object and call for change.

Regular people aren't also supposed to be "good guys"?

We should absolutely object, and strongly, to police murders and brutality. And to other unjustified killings.

Change in outcomes or change in policy?

What precise policy changes should we be protesting for? I'm definitely open to ideas and have offered some myself. I don't follow the protests closely but sometimes it feels like the message is excessively vague and basically amounts to "we're sick of murder, make it stop". Which is a reasonable plea, but probably not an effective one IMO.

"We're" protesting for basic human personal freedom of life rights. AKA if I'm not a risk to another human's life, you in return as a professional keeper of human peace should not be a risk to my life.

But only if the victim is black and the cop white?

[Kurt Heimlich]

Regular people aren't also supposed to be "good guys"?

We should absolutely object, and strongly, to police murders and brutality. And to other unjustified killings.

Change in outcomes or change in policy?

What precise policy changes should we be protesting for? I'm definitely open to ideas and have offered some myself. I don't follow the protests closely but sometimes it feels like the message is excessively vague and basically amounts to "we're sick of murder, make it stop". Which is a reasonable plea, but probably not an effective one IMO.

"We're" protesting for basic human personal freedom of life rights. AKA if I'm not a risk to another human's life, you in return as a professional keeper of human peace should not be a risk to my life.

And this is a fundamental flaw that we are seeing over and over again in cases like this absolutely horrifying George Floyd case.

Problem is, these rights are already codified at the highest levels and no one disagrees with them. So we're still stuck at "we're sick of murder, make it stop", which might approach a universally held belief in this country. We still need actual specific actions and policies.

So you watched the George Floyd video and thought it was reasonable action? I just never know who or what I'm speaking with these days. Anyways, yes there are sometimes cases where police are overly persecuted for their potentially necessary maneuvers in action. But just as often they clearly and observably also have over stepped their reasonable rights and literally murdered a human being like George Floyd.

[League Circles]

"We're" protesting for basic human personal freedom of life rights. AKA if I'm not a risk to another human's life, you in return as a professional keeper of human peace should not be a risk to my life.

And this is a fundamental flaw that we are seeing over and over again in cases like this absolutely horrifying George Floyd case.

Problem is, these rights are already codified at the highest levels and no one disagrees with them. So we're still stuck at "we're sick of murder, make it stop", which might approach a universally held belief in this country. We still need actual specific actions and policies.

So you watched the George Floyd video and thought it was reasonable action? I just never know who or what I'm speaking with these days. Anyways, yes there are sometimes cases where police are overly persecuted for their potentially necessary maneuvers in action. But just as often they clearly and observably also have over stepped their reasonable rights and literally murdered a human being like George Floyd.

How in the wide world did you conclude that I thought anything about the Floyd case was reasonable?

It appears that a cop committed a murder. He and his abbettors were immediately fired and an investigation began. I have no idea what the investigation consisted of because I don't know all the available evidence. I absolutely agree that it may have been an initally weak investigation (or not, I don't know), but the result is that he's been charged with murder, and if I read correctly, the other 3 abbettors are likely going to be charged too (and were also already fired) but they're not certain of the charges yet.

If protestors were saying "arrest cop X (can't remember his name off hand) for the murder of George Floyd, that's reasonable. Maybe slightly premature for my tastes (I generally don't think citizens should have strong opinions on specific criminal prosecutions unless they can do all the same investigating that a professional can), as surely many or most people have not been able to consider all the evidence in the way an investigator should/would, but still specific and focused, so that's fine, and certainly understandable.

But to just generally protest "police killings" without offering parallel specific demands is futile IMO.

I have to stress, I don't in any way mean this to say "what more do you want them to do, they already arrested the guy, jeez, what more could they do". I'm saying "well, it appears we know what to do with Derek Chauvin, it appears we need to arrest him and charge him with murder (which fortunately has been done). But to the greater issue of excessive use of police force, what should we do? Not because we've done all we can, but because we want to know what we should do so that we can do it!"

It's all about properly considering the specific vs the general. We have a system all set up to deal with Derek Chauvin. Too often it doesn't work, but it works more often than not IMO, and hopefully it will in this case. I think appropriate pressure should be applied to ensure that. But the much more general and vague problem of police use of force is being heavily protested and violently rioted against in communities far removed from Minneapolis, without much specific action being demanded that I'm aware of. When a person is trying to violently break into a police station in Brooklyn or cnn headquarters in atlanta, they better have some damn specific demands ready, and they should make them known well in advance IMO. I know I've offered some. Pay cops DRASTICALLY more so that we can recruit much better people overall with more restrictive hiring criteria, and install cameras on every street corner. It's a start. I'm sure SOME protesters have signs calling for specific policy changes such as this, hopefully more than I'd guess. But way too many are basically just chanting and ruining property demanding vague justice that 98% of people already also want, but also don't know how to achieve.

[logical_art]

Problem is, these rights are already codified at the highest levels and no one disagrees with them. So we're still stuck at "we're sick of murder, make it stop", which might approach a universally held belief in this country. We still need actual specific actions and policies.

So you watched the George Floyd video and thought it was reasonable action? I just never know who or what I'm speaking with these days. Anyways, yes there are sometimes cases where police are overly persecuted for their potentially necessary maneuvers in action. But just as often they clearly and observably also have over stepped their reasonable rights and literally murdered a human being like George Floyd.

How in the wide world did you conclude that I thought anything about the Floyd case was reasonable?

It appears that a cop committed a murder. He and his abbettors were immediately fired and an investigation began. I have no idea what the investigation consisted of because I don't know all the available evidence. I absolutely agree that it may have been an initally weak investigation (or not, I don't know), but the result is that he's been charged with murder, and if I read correctly, the other 3 abbettors are likely going to be charged too (and were also already fired) but they're not certain of the charges yet.

If protestors were saying "arrest cop X (can't remember his name off hand) for the murder of George Floyd, that's reasonable. Maybe slightly premature for my tastes (I generally don't think citizens should have strong opinions on specific criminal prosecutions unless they can do all the same investigating that a professional can), as surely many or most people have not been able to consider all the evidence in the way an investigator should/would, but still specific and focused, so that's fine, and certainly understandable.

But to just generally protest "police killings" without offering parallel specific demands is futile IMO.

I have to stress, I don't in any way mean this to say "what more do you want them to do, they already arrested the guy, jeez, what more could they do". I'm saying "well, it appears we know what to do with Derek Chauvin, it appears we need to arrest him and charge him with murder (which fortunately has been done). But to the greater issue of excessive use of police force, what should we do? Not because we've done all we can, but because we want to know what we should do so that we can do it!"

It's all about properly considering the specific vs the general. We have a system all set up to deal with Derek Chauvin. Too often it doesn't work, but it works more often than not IMO, and hopefully it will in this case. I think appropriate pressure should be applied to ensure that. But the much more general and vague problem of police use of force is being heavily protested and violently rioted against in communities far removed from Minneapolis, without much specific action being demanded that I'm aware of. When a person is trying to violently break into a police station in Brooklyn or cnn headquarters in atlanta, they better have some damn specific demands ready, and they should make them known well in advance IMO. I know I've offered some. Pay cops DRASTICALLY more so that we can recruit much better people overall with more restrictive hiring criteria, and install cameras on every street corner. It's a start. I'm sure SOME protesters have signs calling for specific policy changes such as this, hopefully more than I'd guess. But way too many are basically just chanting and ruining property demanding vague justice that 98% of people already also want, but also don't know how to achieve.

But also lets be real, the outrage is not against police brutality - it's against police brutality only when it's directed at black people. Yet police brutality happens to all races. This racial tunnel vision undermines the credibility of protests.

Imagine organizing protests to support homeless veterans, but only white ones? That wouldn't fly, nor should it.

[2018C3]

99% of drug users are otherwise law abiding citizens. Give them a legal way to go buy drugs from a store and pick out bags of dope just like you pick out broccoli or bananas and suddenly every street dealer will go out of business. You'll significantly reduce the power of the criminal network and significantly increase revenue. I'm not just talking about Marijuana, just let it all fly people are going to find drugs to do, and yes theirs going to be negative consciousnesses of use of hard drugs, both medical and social but what
we are currently doing is increasing the damage to extend to non-users and putting a cash-cow into the hands of career criminals.

If you could walk into CVS and buy a labeled dose of Heroin it would lower the chance of accidental overdosing/drug tampering.

Plus I think most people could use a mega dose of entheogens and experience an ego death or 2 before they actually die.

Please provide sources for this statistic highlighted. Another statistic that may also be relevant to this topic, Is what proportion of violent criminals are illegal drug abusers?

If this type of mindset is allowed to continue. This country will crumble, and go the way of Rome and every other powerful society that has ever existed.

Let me ask you a question what experience do you have dealing with drug users?

Im not talking dealers im not talking the extreme outliers that will go to hugely risky measures to secure drugs.The fact is for the majority of my life and yours if you or I was so much as in possession of a nominal amount of marijuana (even less than say half an ounce) that was in some cases a felony and in every case until this January still a reason for probable cause for otherwise illegal search and seizure.

So before you go associating drug use to the fall of Rome I recommend you go get a reality check and look at the serious issues in the country, and the absolute recklessness of both America's fiscal and foreign polices that are both bankrupting our nation and our citizenry.

To be honest I have very little direct interactions with drugs. One thing I do know of is it's consequences.

Two of my past high school friends went down the wrong path and died of overdoses. One of them passed a away in his bedroom on the day of his grandmothers funeral, Completely throwing the rest of his family into shock.

One of my fellow college frat members also died of a drug overdose while we were rushing, I also have another friend who's father passed away from from a drug overdose.

The last time I saw his father alive he was sniffing lines off a table at my friends bachelor party on his kitchen table. I could not make the wedding, and his dad lived a few more years, but poor choices eventually caught up to him. (This guy my friend is as clean as it gets, and today does not even allow alcohol in his home or around his family and children). He will still have a beer in a bar, but keeps it out of his home. He seen with his own eyes what it did to his parents and also his brother. it has no place in his life.

My post was not directed at pot, but the legalization of all drugs which was suggested.

[League Circles]

So you watched the George Floyd video and thought it was reasonable action? I just never know who or what I'm speaking with these days. Anyways, yes there are sometimes cases where police are overly persecuted for their potentially necessary maneuvers in action. But just as often they clearly and observably also have over stepped their reasonable rights and literally murdered a human being like George Floyd.

How in the wide world did you conclude that I thought anything about the Floyd case was reasonable?

It appears that a cop committed a murder. He and his abbettors were immediately fired and an investigation began. I have no idea what the investigation consisted of because I don't know all the available evidence. I absolutely agree that it may have been an initally weak investigation (or not, I don't know), but the result is that he's been charged with murder, and if I read correctly, the other 3 abbettors are likely going to be charged too (and were also already fired) but they're not certain of the charges yet.

If protestors were saying "arrest cop X (can't remember his name off hand) for the murder of George Floyd, that's reasonable. Maybe slightly premature for my tastes (I generally don't think citizens should have strong opinions on specific criminal prosecutions unless they can do all the same investigating that a professional can), as surely many or most people have not been able to consider all the evidence in the way an investigator should/would, but still specific and focused, so that's fine, and certainly understandable.

But to just generally protest "police killings" without offering parallel specific demands is futile IMO.

I have to stress, I don't in any way mean this to say "what more do you want them to do, they already arrested the guy, jeez, what more could they do". I'm saying "well, it appears we know what to do with Derek Chauvin, it appears we need to arrest him and charge him with murder (which fortunately has been done). But to the greater issue of excessive use of police force, what should we do? Not because we've done all we can, but because we want to know what we should do so that we can do it!"

It's all about properly considering the specific vs the general. We have a system all set up to deal with Derek Chauvin. Too often it doesn't work, but it works more often than not IMO, and hopefully it will in this case. I think appropriate pressure should be applied to ensure that. But the much more general and vague problem of police use of force is being heavily protested and violently rioted against in communities far removed from Minneapolis, without much specific action being demanded that I'm aware of. When a person is trying to violently break into a police station in Brooklyn or cnn headquarters in atlanta, they better have some damn specific demands ready, and they should make them known well in advance IMO. I know I've offered some. Pay cops DRASTICALLY more so that we can recruit much better people overall with more restrictive hiring criteria, and install cameras on every street corner. It's a start. I'm sure SOME protesters have signs calling for specific policy changes such as this, hopefully more than I'd guess. But way too many are basically just chanting and ruining property demanding vague justice that 98% of people already also want, but also don't know how to achieve.

But also lets be real, the outrage is not against police brutality - it's against police brutality only when it's directed at black people. Yet police brutality happens to all races. This racial tunnel vision undermines the credibility of protests.

Imagine organizing protests to support homeless veterans, but only white ones? That wouldn't fly, nor should it.

Agreed, though I don't blame the people for this much, as the media presents them a very selectively distorted view of whatever disparities exist.