2020 NBA Draft II

[mg]

I think Okongwu’s comparison falls somewhere between Thompson and Gibson.

He is nothing like either to me

I personally see the Tristan Thompson comparisons. Obviously Okongwu isn't as mechanical and should shoot a better %. He should also block more shots. Other than that they are similar in their size, energy level, and ability to defend the perimeter. I think Okongwu will be a good rebounder too. Bam Adebayo might be a better comparison but you can do more things with Bam since he's a better ballhandler than Okongwu.
I can see both Okongwu and Avdija being near the top of the Cavs board but I think they would trade down too if they get any kind of decent offer. They might be just as happy with Vassell, Green, S Bey, or Nesmith if they can get another pick or two in the deal.

[getrichordie]

I think Okongwu’s comparison falls somewhere between Thompson and Gibson.

He is nothing like either to me

I personally see the Tristan Thompson comparisons. Obviously Okongwu isn't as mechanical and should shoot a better %. He should also block more shots. Other than that they are similar in their size, energy level, and ability to defend the perimeter. I think Okongwu will be a good rebounder too. Bam Adebayo might be a better comparison but you can do more things with Bam since he's a better ballhandler than Okongwu.
I can see both Okongwu and Avdija being near the top of the Cavs board but I think they would trade down too if they get any kind of decent offer. They might be just as happy with Vassell, Green, S Bey, or Nesmith if they can get another pick or two in the deal.

Adebayo is such a more fluid big man than Okongwu and it’s not close.

[Stillwater]

^ true and false Adebayo was not even a little more fluid at the same age even though he is obviously moreso now... these comparisions to actual NBA players now compared to the same age are hillarious. Big O absolutley fits the mold of an Adebayo level prospect on both ends of the floor and anyone drafting him will be expecting him to become just that in a couple years. Don't think he can be that? I bet you didn't think Adebayo would be either then I guess then which is fine but I am more inclined to think you expect what a pro is now was always the case since you have no real understanding of how orgs value prospects

[getrichordie]

^ true and false Adebayo was not even a little more fluid at the same age even though he is obviously moreso now... these comparisions to actual NBA players now compared to the same age are hillarious. Big O absolutley fits the mold of an Adebayo level prospect on both ends of the floor and anyone drafting him will be expecting him to become just that in a couple years. Don't think he can be that? I bet you didn't think Adebayo would be either then I guess then which is fine but I am more inclined to think you expect what a pro is now was always the case since you have no real understanding of how orgs value prospects

Here we go again with the disrespectful comments. What makes you the foremost authority on how organizations value prospects?

[Stillwater]

^ true and false Adebayo was not even a little more fluid at the same age even though he is obviously moreso now... these comparisions to actual NBA players now compared to the same age are hillarious. Big O absolutley fits the mold of an Adebayo level prospect on both ends of the floor and anyone drafting him will be expecting him to become just that in a couple years. Don't think he can be that? I bet you didn't think Adebayo would be either then I guess then which is fine but I am more inclined to think you expect what a pro is now was always the case since you have no real understanding of how orgs value prospects

Here we go again with the disrespectful comments. What makes you the foremost authority on how organizations value prospects?

what is disrespectful too me is you pretending you are some authority wen clearly you are not...by making comments like you do repeatedly. Granted it's just your opinion just like mine is just opinion. But I am not plastering the draft boards with non factual data.
Bam was a better perimeter defender in college and O the better rim protector but the comp besides that is very solid

[getrichordie]

^ true and false Adebayo was not even a little more fluid at the same age even though he is obviously moreso now... these comparisions to actual NBA players now compared to the same age are hillarious. Big O absolutley fits the mold of an Adebayo level prospect on both ends of the floor and anyone drafting him will be expecting him to become just that in a couple years. Don't think he can be that? I bet you didn't think Adebayo would be either then I guess then which is fine but I am more inclined to think you expect what a pro is now was always the case since you have no real understanding of how orgs value prospects

Here we go again with the disrespectful comments. What makes you the foremost authority on how organizations value prospects?

what is disrespectful too me is you pretending you are some authority wen clearly you are not...by making comments like you do repeatedly. Granted it's just your opinion just like mine is just opinion. But I am not plastering the draft boards with non factual data.
Bam was a better perimeter defender in college and O the better rim protector but the comp besides that is very solid

What non-factual data? Just this comment? How am I being authoritative? LMAO. Dude, and you said it yourself. I’m entitled to my opinion just like you are.

OO is not as mobile or fluid as Adebayo. Maybe he can get there but he isn’t.

Only reason OO is getting Bam comps is because of recency bias and that’s it. He’s a lot closer to Thompson and Gibson as a prospect.

If someone else staring their opinion is disrespectful, I don’t know what to say. Can’t help you out there, bud. I didn’t even state my opinion in a condescending way AT ALL.

[getrichordie]

Man... some of you guys are **** sensitive.

[clyde21]

Bam has a better frame than Onyeka but the comp is a lot more apt than Thompson or Gibson

[getrichordie]

Okongwu is nowhere close to Adebayo as an athlete, IMO. This video is all the evidence you need.

Watch on YouTube

[Stillwater]

Okongwu is nowhere close to Adebayo as an athlete, IMO. This video is all the evidence you need.

Watch on YouTube

impressive, and nothing that changes opinions on Okongwu even a little bit.
See this is what I am talking about. posting a video of Adebayo then suggesting it means big O aint the same
is laughable when he showed his explosiveness all season. I can't wait till he gets better at passing which btw is what made BAM go from who he was to an elite big and why he was considered a reach being drafted at 14 by many who projected him as a late first pick based on college production yet big O is widely considered a top 10 lock in this one...

[getrichordie]

Okongwu is nowhere close to Adebayo as an athlete, IMO. This video is all the evidence you need.

Watch on YouTube

impressive, and nothing that changes opinions on Okongwu even a little bit.
See this is what I am talking about. posting a video of Adebayo then suggesting it means big O aint the same
is laughable when he showed his explosiveness all season. I can't wait till he gets better at passing which btw is what made BAM go from who he was to an elite big and why he was considered a reach being drafted at 14 by many who projected him as a late first pick based on college production yet big O is widely considered a top 10 lock in this one...

I’ll be waiting for video evidence of a windmill dunk from Okongwu or atleast evidence of him jumping as high.

[NO-KG-AI]

These are the kind of draft where someone is going to become a superstar of the project players, and man, I’m glad my team wasn’t hinging the future of the franchise on having a #1 pick in this draft.

I really couldn’t even tell you who I’d realistically love to have at the Pels pick.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[GimmeDat]

Non-winning player is such an unusual term for me. Non-winning relative to what exactly?

Personally, I think it would be more specific to say that someone has an overrated impact on winning.

If there's only 3 guys every draft (just using DD's board as a general example) that play fundamental winning playoff basketball, then the good stats bad team guys are likely to be more impactful than the 'rest of the bunch' guys, which would make them more conducive to winning than the vast majority of alternatives.

Obviously that's an oversimplification of the argument, particularly when considering scalability of roles, and again, how you define are quote unquote 'empty stats' player. There's obviously many different levels to that.

i mean, it's kinda straight forward, like DLo for example, he posts a lot of stats but is essentially an empty calorie player, his production is not conducive to winning basketball and is almost never a net positive on the court

But again, relative to what. If you're building a team around him, sure. If he's the 5th/6th best player on your team though? I'd say he's very conducive to winning relative to the majority of bench pieces and certain starters.

[getrichordie]

Non-winning player is such an unusual term for me. Non-winning relative to what exactly?

Personally, I think it would be more specific to say that someone has an overrated impact on winning.

If there's only 3 guys every draft (just using DD's board as a general example) that play fundamental winning playoff basketball, then the good stats bad team guys are likely to be more impactful than the 'rest of the bunch' guys, which would make them more conducive to winning than the vast majority of alternatives.

Obviously that's an oversimplification of the argument, particularly when considering scalability of roles, and again, how you define are quote unquote 'empty stats' player. There's obviously many different levels to that.

i mean, it's kinda straight forward, like DLo for example, he posts a lot of stats but is essentially an empty calorie player, his production is not conducive to winning basketball and is almost never a net positive on the court

But again, relative to what. If you're building a team around him, sure. If he's the 5th/6th best player on your team though? I'd say he's very conducive to winning relative to the majority of bench pieces and certain starters.

This. Is it Russell's fault that MIN wants to build around him? No. He's a really good sixth man but a low-level starter.

[getrichordie]

Just wanted to talk about big board philosophies when evaluating prospects. What is your philosophy for separating prospects within the same tier? For me, it comes down to three things: athleticism, fundamentals, and impact upside.

example: Grant Riller v. Precious Achiuwa

athleticism: PA (big margin)
fundamentals: GR (big margin)
impact upside: PA (big margin)

= PA > GR (not very close)

example #2: LaMelo Ball v. Killian Hayes

athleticism: LB (small margin)
fundamentals: KH (big margin)
impact upside: LB (small margin)

= LB > KH (it's close)

[getrichordie]

projected 3-pt shooting (point guards) -- using v. top 100 stats for college players*
*complete season average will be in parentheses

j. butler (38.1%) // 20gp // ~33% on 3s // 69.5% on FTs // (nba proj. = 33-35%)
k. lewis jr. (36.4%) // 20gp // ~35% on 3s // 77.4% on FTs // (nba proj. = 35-37%)
t. haliburton (41.9%) // 16gp // ~41% on 3s // 83.3% on FTs // (nba proj. = 40-42%)
c. anthony (34.8%) // 16gp // ~34% on 3s // 72.2% on FTs // (nba proj. = 33-35%)
g. riller (36.4%) // 7gp // ~24% on 3s // 83.3% on FTs // (nba proj. = 34-36%)
t. maxey (31.6%) // 17gp // ~32% on 3s // 83.1% on FTs // (nba proj. = 32-34%)
t. jones (36.1%) // 16gp // ~30% on 3s // 73.3% on FTs // (nba proj. = 32-34%)

...will add more later

[getrichordie]

Really great tool for finding shot attempts breakdown between 3s, mid-range, and @rim.

https://hoop-explorer.com/Charts#high_major_positions

[clyde21]

Non-winning player is such an unusual term for me. Non-winning relative to what exactly?

Personally, I think it would be more specific to say that someone has an overrated impact on winning.

If there's only 3 guys every draft (just using DD's board as a general example) that play fundamental winning playoff basketball, then the good stats bad team guys are likely to be more impactful than the 'rest of the bunch' guys, which would make them more conducive to winning than the vast majority of alternatives.

Obviously that's an oversimplification of the argument, particularly when considering scalability of roles, and again, how you define are quote unquote 'empty stats' player. There's obviously many different levels to that.

i mean, it's kinda straight forward, like DLo for example, he posts a lot of stats but is essentially an empty calorie player, his production is not conducive to winning basketball and is almost never a net positive on the court

But again, relative to what. If you're building a team around him, sure. If he's the 5th/6th best player on your team though? I'd say he's very conducive to winning relative to the majority of bench pieces and certain starters.

not really...what's Lamelo's role on the team if he's your 5th best player? he's exlusively an on-ball guard who doesn't play any defense, at what point are you gonna have your 4th/5th best player the ball where it's gonna matter that much?

it's a conflict of interest, he's a high usage player, but if he's your 5th best player, he won't be high usage, and if he's 1st or 2nd best player, mehhhhh.

[clyde21]

projected 3-pt shooting (point guards) -- using v. top 100 stats for college players*
*complete season average will be in parentheses

j. butler (38.1%) // 20gp // ~33% on 3s // 69.5% on FTs // (nba proj. = 33-35%)
k. lewis jr. (36.4%) // 20gp // ~35% on 3s // 77.4% on FTs // (nba proj. = 35-37%)
t. haliburton (41.9%) // 16gp // ~41% on 3s // 83.3% on FTs // (nba proj. = 40-42%)
c. anthony (34.8%) // 16gp // ~34% on 3s // 72.2% on FTs // (nba proj. = 33-35%)
g. riller (36.4%) // 7gp // ~24% on 3s // 83.3% on FTs // (nba proj. = 34-36%)
t. maxey (31.6%) // 17gp // ~32% on 3s // 83.1% on FTs // (nba proj. = 32-34%)
t. jones (36.1%) // 16gp // ~30% on 3s // 73.3% on FTs // (nba proj. = 32-34%)

...will add more later

not really scalable, not all 3s are created equal, the types of 3s that Maxey and Butler and Anthony take are different than Haliburton's, way more off-dribble, pull-up, etc, so this doesn't say anything really

[getrichordie]

projected 3-pt shooting (point guards) -- using v. top 100 stats for college players*
*complete season average will be in parentheses

j. butler (38.1%) // 20gp // ~33% on 3s // 69.5% on FTs // (nba proj. = 33-35%)
k. lewis jr. (36.4%) // 20gp // ~35% on 3s // 77.4% on FTs // (nba proj. = 35-37%)
t. haliburton (41.9%) // 16gp // ~41% on 3s // 83.3% on FTs // (nba proj. = 40-42%)
c. anthony (34.8%) // 16gp // ~34% on 3s // 72.2% on FTs // (nba proj. = 33-35%)
g. riller (36.4%) // 7gp // ~24% on 3s // 83.3% on FTs // (nba proj. = 34-36%)
t. maxey (31.6%) // 17gp // ~32% on 3s // 83.1% on FTs // (nba proj. = 32-34%)
t. jones (36.1%) // 16gp // ~30% on 3s // 73.3% on FTs // (nba proj. = 32-34%)

...will add more later

not really scalable, not all 3s are created equal, the types of 3s that Maxey and Butler and Anthony take are different than Haliburton's, way more off-dribble, pull-up, etc, so this doesn't say anything really

Where can I find a break down of the different kinds of 3PA?