Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years"

[GetBuLLish]

Videos of these riots make me sick. Can't believe there's not a single city in this country that is able to put these criminals in their place.

By the way, a lot of these rioters are radical leftist Antifa members (aka the whitest people on planet earth). The rest are people who have been brainwashed by the media and/or people just looking to steal stuff.

[dice]

Considering what protests riots will accomplish doesnt seem like a priority. What does burning **** down accomplish? It's emotive. All of my proposed gestures are too.

don't try to muddy the waters by conflating protests and riots. protests are 100% reasonable. riots are not

Whats going on now is rioting, not protests.

then say riots when you're making a point about riots being bad. which few people are going to disagree with

Especially here. What does Chicago have to do with what happened in Minnesota?

The people looting are just using that as an excuse

there's looting in chicago? regardless, there is no excuse for looting anywhere. it does indeed dishonor the cause and the victim

[dice]

By the way, a lot of these rioters are radical leftist Antifa members (aka the whitest people on planet earth). The rest are people who have been brainwashed by the media and/or people just looking to steal stuff.

you're full of crap

[Dominator83]

don't try to muddy the waters by conflating protests and riots. protests are 100% reasonable. riots are not

Whats going on now is rioting, not protests.

then say riots when you're making a point about riots being bad. which few people are going to disagree with

Especially here. What does Chicago have to do with what happened in Minnesota?

The people looting are just using that as an excuse

there's looting in chicago? regardless, there is no excuse for looting anywhere. it does indeed dishonor the cause and the victim

Yes, theres looting in Chicago. What does that have to do with what happened in Minnesota?

[dice]

One issue I havent seen getting any attention is how many additional COVID19 infections and fatalities these protests and riots are causing. Why is this the exception to no large gatherings?

bit of a different circumstance than a sunday service, don't you think? but yes, they should be wearing masks and attempting to social distance

Yes churches opening is dumb political pandering. So is allowing these protests, which are taking place on a much larger scale.

the city of minneapolis did not "allow" these protests. jesus. they happened very quickly and organically in response to a disturbing incident. unlike the protests about COVID-19 shutdowns

are you suggesting that minneapolis police or the national guard should be teargassing peaceful protestors or dragging them off in handcuffs if they are not social distancing? would you suggest the same for the shutdown protestors? 'cause neither action seems too sensible to me. both would only exacerbate the problem

[logical_art]

bit of a different circumstance than a sunday service, don't you think? but yes, they should be wearing masks and attempting to social distance

Yes churches opening is dumb political pandering. So is allowing these protests, which are taking place on a much larger scale.

the city of minneapolis did not "allow" these protests. jesus. they happened very quickly and organically in response to a disturbing incident. unlike the protests about COVID-19 shutdowns

are you suggesting that minneapolis police or the national guard should be teargassing peaceful protestors or dragging them off in handcuffs if they are not social distancing? would you suggest the same for the shutdown protestors? 'cause neither action seems too sensible to me. both would only exacerbate the problem

They took a soft stance from the beginning when making it very clear that protests would be treated as a violation of rules against large gatherings would be enforced. And yes enforcing the rules early before it got out have had might have served as a discouragement.

+++

Do you think protesters have moral culpability for the likely increase in COVID19 cases and possibly fatalities?

[dice]

Considering what protests riots will accomplish doesnt seem like a priority. What does burning **** down accomplish? It's emotive. All of my proposed gestures are too.

don't try to muddy the waters by conflating protests and riots. protests are 100% reasonable. riots are not

Reality is conflating them.

we were having a general discussion about appropriate responses to murders, not specifically referring to the minneapolis riots

And yes peaceful protests are legit in any other time than a pandemic where there is basically unanimous expert consensus that large gatherings are dangerous.

it's simply not remotely reasonable to expect massive protests not to stem from this incident. there is really no other way to deal with the situation in the moment. you think staying at home in spring/summer during a pandemic is difficult already? try doing it when you're boiling with resentment on the inside

those cops in minneapolis sure should've been social distancing. by calmly discussing the situation instead of handcuffing and kneeling on the neck of a guy suspected of passing a counterfeit bill

[logical_art]

don't try to muddy the waters by conflating protests and riots. protests are 100% reasonable. riots are not

Reality is conflating them.

we were having a general discussion about appropriate responses to murders, not specifically referring to the minneapolis riots

And yes peaceful protests are legit in any other time than a pandemic where there is basically unanimous expert consensus that large gatherings are dangerous.

it's simply not remotely reasonable to expect massive protests not to stem from this incident. there is really no other way to deal with the situation in the moment. you think staying at home in spring/summer during a pandemic is difficult already? try doing it when you're boiling with resentment on the inside

those cops in minneapolis sure should've been social distancing. by calmly discussing the situation instead of handcuffing and kneeling on the neck of a guy suspected of passing a counterfeit bill

Yes it is reasonable not to expect people to put lives at stake over one murder.

Just like you not expecting protests leaders to actually familiarize themselves with the facts rather than the emotinos, in this case I think you expect too little of people.

[dice]

Yes churches opening is dumb political pandering. So is allowing these protests, which are taking place on a much larger scale.

the city of minneapolis did not "allow" these protests. jesus. they happened very quickly and organically in response to a disturbing incident. unlike the protests about COVID-19 shutdowns

are you suggesting that minneapolis police or the national guard should be teargassing peaceful protestors or dragging them off in handcuffs if they are not social distancing? would you suggest the same for the shutdown protestors? 'cause neither action seems too sensible to me. both would only exacerbate the problem

They took a soft stance from the beginning when making it very clear that protests would be treated as a violation of rules against large gatherings would be enforced. And yes enforcing the rules early before it got out have had might have served as a discouragement.

enforce it HOW? dragging people off one by one sure ain't social distancing. and i would suggest that trying to shut down an angry crowd using the same police force that is being protested against is more likely to encourage more people to come out than discourage it. the city of minneapolis made that determination

once again, if cities are determining that dispersing crowds of shutdown protestors isn't worthwhile, why the hell would they think that doing so in this situation would be?

Do you think protesters have moral culpability for the likely increase in COVID19 cases and possibly fatalities?

if they're not wearing masks and attempting to social distance? yes, to some degree. does the cause outweigh those risks? i can't be the judge of that because the situation doesn't involve me or the neighborhood that i live in

[dice]

Reality is conflating them.

we were having a general discussion about appropriate responses to murders, not specifically referring to the minneapolis riots

And yes peaceful protests are legit in any other time than a pandemic where there is basically unanimous expert consensus that large gatherings are dangerous.

it's simply not remotely reasonable to expect massive protests not to stem from this incident. there is really no other way to deal with the situation in the moment. you think staying at home in spring/summer during a pandemic is difficult already? try doing it when you're boiling with resentment on the inside

those cops in minneapolis sure should've been social distancing. by calmly discussing the situation instead of handcuffing and kneeling on the neck of a guy suspected of passing a counterfeit bill

Yes it is reasonable not to expect people to put lives at stake over one murder.

you're completely out of touch with reality. totally gone

"eh, it's just one murder folks. how 'bout taking a deep breath (which the victim was not permitted to do as the life was being choked out of him) and going home. maybe stage your protest after this COVID-19 thing, hmm?"

you wouldn't dare suggest that to a black person's face in minneapolis. and you know it. you'd look like an absolute fool

Just like you not expecting protests leaders to actually familiarize themselves with the facts rather than the emotinos, in this case I think you expect too little of people.

apparently i expect too much of you to recognize that the only relevant fact here is that a police officer murdered a citizen for no reason. and yes, expecting people to read studies (for what reason, again?) in the wake of such an event is completely laughable. you may be the only person on the planet who would make that suggestion

white people can't even handle having to wear a mask during a pandemic. but black people should be expected to maintain control of their emotions when one of their community is murdered by a cop. gotcha. GTFO with that nonsense

[logical_art]

we were having a general discussion about appropriate responses to murders, not specifically referring to the minneapolis riots


it's simply not remotely reasonable to expect massive protests not to stem from this incident. there is really no other way to deal with the situation in the moment. you think staying at home in spring/summer during a pandemic is difficult already? try doing it when you're boiling with resentment on the inside

those cops in minneapolis sure should've been social distancing. by calmly discussing the situation instead of handcuffing and kneeling on the neck of a guy suspected of passing a counterfeit bill

Yes it is reasonable not to expect people to put lives at stake over one murder.

you're completely out of touch with reality. totally gone

"eh, it's just one murder folks. how 'bout taking a deep breath (which the victim was not permitted to do as the life was being choked out of him) and going home. maybe stage your protest after this COVID-19 thing, hmm?"

you wouldn't dare suggest that to a black person's face in minneapolis. and you know it. you'd look like an absolute fool

Just like you not expecting protests leaders to actually familiarize themselves with the facts rather than the emotinos, in this case I think you expect too little of people.

apparently i expect too much of you to recognize that the only relevant fact here is that a police officer murdered a citizen for no reason. and yes, expecting people to read studies (for what reason, again?) in the wake of such an event is completely laughable. you may be the only person on the planet who would make that suggestion

white people can't even handle having to wear a mask during a pandemic. but black people should be expected to maintain control of their emotions when one of their community is murdered by a cop. gotcha. GTFO with that nonsense

You're just yelling and emoting at this point.

1. Yes, its one murder. It's worse than a normal because its by a cop. Is it worse than the ten that took place last weekend in ChiTown? Again, there is not evidence that blacks are more likely to be killed by cops so why should this trigger such a reaction when when other races are killed by cops there's no reaction?
2. The fact that you think its unreasonable to read the research on a subject that you're an expert on an mobilizing people for is completely bizarre. In what other situations do you think leaders should also be willfully ignorant? Perhaps if they actually know the facts they would take on the issue of police killings across all races in a productive way, rather than than dividing people up by race, enabling the destruction of property and in this COVID19 case, possibly lives.
3. The fact that some idiots (not only white, at least not where I am) don't wear masks has nothing to do with whether or not its wrong to gather in large crowds against all expert advice. This is the second time you've tried to imply two wrongs make a right, which is wrong.

[musiqsoulchild]

The tipping point is here.

Theres no denying it.

Riots will continue until we have some sort of large scale acknowledgment of systemic injustice and a clear action towards reforming policing and law.

It's happening too often. Too quickly. And the Ahmad's, the Breonna's and the Floyd's are JUST the ones that have resulted in death AND have either photographic evidence or actual eyewitnesses.

What if a cop slaps you extra-judicial and off camera? Just because he or she can?

Each transgression of basic american rights whether it's on camera or not, whether its ending in someone dying or not....the sum total of all of that is these riots.

I dont want to focus on the riots. I want to focus ONLY on the iniquity and the inequity of the system that allows crimes like Floyd's, Arbury's and Breonna 's deaths to occur.

[2018C3]

[url]Terrible:

Watch on YouTube

[/url]

Terrible:

Watch on YouTube

Terrible:

Watch on YouTube

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[musiqsoulchild]

As usual these discussions devolve into one side being portrayed as blaming poor black communities for all their problems and the other side portrayed as blaming the system for all the problems. If caught at the right moment, I think almost everyone would agree that as is almost always the case, the truth is not at either extreme.

What if the weight of one extreme is fast becoming a lot bigger burden to carry than the weight of the other extreme?

I think we are there.

[Dresden]

Videos of these riots make me sick. Can't believe there's not a single city in this country that is able to put these criminals in their place.

By the way, a lot of these rioters are radical leftist Antifa members (aka the whitest people on planet earth). The rest are people who have been brainwashed by the media and/or people just looking to steal stuff.

Do they know that for sure- that these rioters are members of that organization? I heard William Barr allude to this as well, without offering any proof of it.

[Dresden]

The tipping point is here.

Theres no denying it.

Riots will continue until we have some sort of large scale acknowledgment of systemic injustice and a clear action towards reforming policing and law.

It's happening too often. Too quickly. And the Ahmad's, the Breonna's and the Floyd's are JUST the ones that have resulted in death AND have either photographic evidence or actual eyewitnesses.

What if a cop slaps you extra-judicial and off camera? Just because he or she can?

Each transgression of basic american rights whether it's on camera or not, whether its ending in someone dying or not....the sum total of all of that is these riots.

I dont want to focus on the riots. I want to focus ONLY on the iniquity and the inequity of the system that allows crimes like Floyd's, Arbury's and Breonna 's deaths to occur.

I agree. What's going on right now is just people letting their frustrations out on a system that they feel has treated them unfairly. At some point once this has worked itself out, there needs to be a lot of soul searching and reform (again!) of police departments, with a lot of community input. I know many cities already have citizen committees on police relations, etc., etc. But apparently that doesn't work. So they need to go a step further, whatever that may be. They should study which cities or regions have the most problems with police/citizen relationships, because it's worse in some areas than others, and they should be under some sort of federal mandate to come up with some sort of program to address these problems, with plenty of input from the communities most affected.

it's kind of like with gun control- every time there is a mass shooting, everyone says something has to be done, and then it quiets down again until the next one, without anything really being done.

[musiqsoulchild]

The protesters being from Antifa doesnt matter an ounce.

It's a classic delegitimizing tactic.

1) But what was he doing at the construction site? ( Ahmad)
2) Why did the boyfriend have a gun? ( Breonna's boyfriend)
3) Why did he produce a forged note? ( Floyd)

Irrelevant in the court of public opinion. And probably in a legal court eventually as well.

[Dresden]

As usual these discussions devolve into one side being portrayed as blaming poor black communities for all their problems and the other side portrayed as blaming the system for all the problems. If caught at the right moment, I think almost everyone would agree that as is almost always the case, the truth is not at either extreme.

What if the weight of one extreme is fast becoming a lot bigger burden to carry than the weight of the other extreme?

I think we are there.

I don't see how it can be blamed on a community. Violence and illegal behavior goes hand in hand with poverty. Studies have been done that show if you take a family that lives in a ghetto, and move them to a middle class neighborhood, all the problems you'd expect to see in the ghetto- poor school performance, criminal behavior, unemployment, etc., improve markedly for that family. It's all about access to resources, to the right kind of role models and mentoring, and to opportunity.

[musiqsoulchild]

As usual these discussions devolve into one side being portrayed as blaming poor black communities for all their problems and the other side portrayed as blaming the system for all the problems. If caught at the right moment, I think almost everyone would agree that as is almost always the case, the truth is not at either extreme.

What if the weight of one extreme is fast becoming a lot bigger burden to carry than the weight of the other extreme?

I think we are there.

I don't see how it can be blamed on a community. Violence and illegal behavior goes hand in hand with poverty. Studies have been done that show if you take a family that lives in a ghetto, and move them to a middle class neighborhood, all the problems you'd expect to see in the ghetto- poor school performance, criminal behavior, unemployment, etc., improve markedly for that family. It's all about access to resources, to the right kind of role models and mentoring, and to opportunity.

I am.agreeing with you.

I am trying to bring logical art INTO the discussion. On his own premise.

I dont want well intentioned people like him to get turned off on BLM.

BLM is not asking for more. Its asking for what's due. And what's fair. And what has already been promised under law to every US citizen.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

The protesters being from Antifa doesnt matter an ounce.

It's a classic delegitimizing tactic.

1) But what was he doing at the construction site? ( Ahmad)
2) Why did the boyfriend have a gun? ( Breonna's boyfriend)
3) Why did he produce a forged note? ( Floyd)

Irrelevant in the court of public opinion. And probably in a legal court eventually as well.

Tell em!