Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years"

[musiqsoulchild]

The protesters being from Antifa doesnt matter an ounce.

It's a classic delegitimizing tactic.

1) But what was he doing at the construction site? ( Ahmad)
2) Why did the boyfriend have a gun? ( Breonna's boyfriend)
3) Why did he produce a forged note? ( Floyd)

Irrelevant in the court of public opinion. And probably in a legal court eventually as well.

Tell em!

Its upsetting Ashy.

Michigan anti- COVID protesters with guns IN the Capitol building are "very good people who are expressing their God given American values of freedom".

And the protesters who are getting tear gassed and shelled are "THUGS".

Also, I still can't beleive that people protested against COVID distancing and mask measures. But I guess that's another story.

[Dominator83]

The protesters being from Antifa doesnt matter an ounce.

It's a classic delegitimizing tactic.

1) But what was he doing at the construction site? ( Ahmad)
2) Why did the boyfriend have a gun? ( Breonna's boyfriend)
3) Why did he produce a forged note? ( Floyd)

Irrelevant in the court of public opinion. And probably in a legal court eventually as well.

Tell em!

Its upsetting Ashy.

Michigan anti- COVID protesters with guns IN the Capitol building are "very good people who are expressing their God given American values of freedom".

And the protesters who are getting tear gassed and shelled are "THUGS".

Also, I still can't beleive that people protested against COVID distancing and mask measures. But I guess that's another story.

Well, all the people downtown here today weren't exactly practicing social distancing

[chitownsalesmen]

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[chitownsalesmen]

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Imma have to agree with killer mike on this one.

[League Circles]

Man, my friend's store got smashed and very heavily looted today in a mostly peaceful protest that turned bad in Madison. Various people looted him hard for 30 minutes, ALL laughing, all races, etc. One of his staff is in the ER after being attacked. Its a travesty because his shop genuinely fosters all sorts of diverse social progressivism especially for the youth. Sorry to derail but we've morphed into talking about the protests a lot as it's timely. I just found out about this it happened today. Lot's of video. PUNK ass bitches doing the smashing and looting while the socially conscious protesters plead with them to stop and be cool.

Check out his shop at the link I've had in my sig for months. Really cool stuff. Inventory probably sketchy tonight, looked like at least half his stuff was stolen if not most of it and lots of damage. Smh.

[Dresden]

Man, my friend's store got smashed and very heavily looted today in a mostly peaceful protest that turned bad in Madison. Various people looted him hard for 30 minutes, ALL laughing, all races, etc. One of his staff is in the ER after being attacked. Its a travesty because his shop genuinely fosters all sorts of diverse social progressivism especially for the youth. Sorry to derail but we've morphed into talking about the protests a lot as it's timely. I just found out about this it happened today. Lot's of video. PUNK ass bitches doing the smashing and looting while the socially conscious protesters plead with them to stop and be cool.

Check out his shop at the link I've had in my sig for months. Really cool stuff. Inventory probably sketchy tonight, looked like at least half his stuff was stolen if not most of it and lots of damage. Smh.

That's sad.

[Dominator83]

Man, my friend's store got smashed and very heavily looted today in a mostly peaceful protest that turned bad in Madison. Various people looted him hard for 30 minutes, ALL laughing, all races, etc. One of his staff is in the ER after being attacked. Its a travesty because his shop genuinely fosters all sorts of diverse social progressivism especially for the youth. Sorry to derail but we've morphed into talking about the protests a lot as it's timely. I just found out about this it happened today. Lot's of video. PUNK ass bitches doing the smashing and looting while the socially conscious protesters plead with them to stop and be cool.

Check out his shop at the link I've had in my sig for months. Really cool stuff. Inventory probably sketchy tonight, looked like at least half his stuff was stolen if not most of it and lots of damage. Smh.

That's effed up man. What did he have to do with what happened in Minnesota? That's the thing. Maybe there are SOME people that wanna protest peacefully, but all of the scumbags have an easy stage to do their thing and get away with it

[League Circles]

Frankly there's no particular reason to obscure the protesters with the looters. No reason to think they're the same people at all. Same general place same general time, one group large and serious about positive change, one group small, slithering among them physically but ideologically nihlist, being destructive as hell.

[logical_art]

What if the weight of one extreme is fast becoming a lot bigger burden to carry than the weight of the other extreme?

I think we are there.

I don't see how it can be blamed on a community. Violence and illegal behavior goes hand in hand with poverty. Studies have been done that show if you take a family that lives in a ghetto, and move them to a middle class neighborhood, all the problems you'd expect to see in the ghetto- poor school performance, criminal behavior, unemployment, etc., improve markedly for that family. It's all about access to resources, to the right kind of role models and mentoring, and to opportunity.

I am.agreeing with you.

I am trying to bring logical art INTO the discussion. On his own premise.

I dont want well intentioned people like him to get turned off on BLM.

BLM is not asking for more. Its asking for what's due. And what's fair. And what has already been promised under law to every US citizen.

The problem I think a lot of people have with BLM is that the issues of bad or criminal policing should be addressed regardless of race. It divides people to only address a problem when it involves one subgroup of people. You care about a problem only when it affects people who look like you? Imagine taking that position that about almost any other problem society faces. It wouldn't fly, nor should it. And just from an efficacy standpoint, I think an organization that fought for policing reform and justice for victims of the bad police regardless of race would be more effective. And if indeed a majority of the victims were black, the organization could respond accordingly. But it shouldn't ignore non-black cases.

[Dominator83]

I don't see how it can be blamed on a community. Violence and illegal behavior goes hand in hand with poverty. Studies have been done that show if you take a family that lives in a ghetto, and move them to a middle class neighborhood, all the problems you'd expect to see in the ghetto- poor school performance, criminal behavior, unemployment, etc., improve markedly for that family. It's all about access to resources, to the right kind of role models and mentoring, and to opportunity.

I am.agreeing with you.

I am trying to bring logical art INTO the discussion. On his own premise.

I dont want well intentioned people like him to get turned off on BLM.

BLM is not asking for more. Its asking for what's due. And what's fair. And what has already been promised under law to every US citizen.

The problem I think a lot of people have with BLM is that the issues of bad or criminal policing should be addressed regardless of race. It divides people to only address a problem when it involves one subgroup of people. You care about a problem only when it affects people who look like you? Imagine taking that position that about almost any other problem society faces. It wouldn't fly, nor should it. And just from an efficacy standpoint, I think an organization that fought for policing reform and justice for victims of the bad police regardless of race would be more effective. And if indeed a majority of the victims were black, the organization could respond accordingly. But it shouldn't ignore non-black cases.

Part of the bad look too is, the majority of BLMs martyrs are guys that were car jackers, guys that just robbed a liquor store, etc. Floyd was a legit tragedy.

So the question is what is their end game? Do they want it to where blacks can just simply commit whatever crimes they please with no repercussions?

Ok. So say they get their wish. No police in black neighborhoods. Free reign do whatever you want. Do you think crime would go up or down?

Im not trying to be a dick here guys. I'm asking serious questions with a open mind to serious answers. I can have real debates and discussions without getting angry and heated I'm a pretty chill guy.

[Dresden]

Part of the bad look too is, the majority of BLMs martyrs are guys that were car jackers, guys that just robbed a liquor store, etc.

What are you talking about? All Floyd did was pass a fake 20 bill, which he may not have even know was fake. By all accounts, he was not a bad dude at all, in fact, just the opposite. Same with a lot of the others- they did nothing like car jacking or robbing- they were murdered by the police because the cops got overzealous.

[dice]

Yes it is reasonable not to expect people to put lives at stake over one murder.

you're completely out of touch with reality. totally gone

"eh, it's just one murder folks. how 'bout taking a deep breath (which the victim was not permitted to do as the life was being choked out of him) and going home. maybe stage your protest after this COVID-19 thing, hmm?"

you wouldn't dare suggest that to a black person's face in minneapolis. and you know it. you'd look like an absolute fool

Just like you not expecting protests leaders to actually familiarize themselves with the facts rather than the emotinos, in this case I think you expect too little of people.

apparently i expect too much of you to recognize that the only relevant fact here is that a police officer murdered a citizen for no reason. and yes, expecting people to read studies (for what reason, again?) in the wake of such an event is completely laughable. you may be the only person on the planet who would make that suggestion

white people can't even handle having to wear a mask during a pandemic. but black people should be expected to maintain control of their emotions when one of their community is murdered by a cop. gotcha. GTFO with that nonsense

You're just yelling and emoting at this point.

i'm yelling? what are you on?

1. Yes, its one murder.

i thought it was six

Is it worse than the ten that took place last weekend in ChiTown?

it's much, much different. and you know that

Again, there is not evidence that blacks are more likely to be killed by cops

yes there is. you posted the stats yourself. your suggestion is that it's because they commit more violent crimes. and there's no evidence of that

so why should this trigger such a reaction when when other races are killed by cops there's no reaction?

why are you playing dumb?

again, find video of white people being killed in the manner that this man was

The fact that you think its unreasonable to read the research on a subject that you're an expert on an mobilizing people for is completely bizarre.

research on WHAT? there is absolutely no research a person can read on whether or not to protest this particular incident

a man was murdered by a cop for no reason. it was filmed by people imploring him to stop. there is nothing to research here. you're making a totally off the wall suggestion

In what other situations do you think leaders should also be willfully ignorant?

ignorant about WHAT?

Perhaps if they actually know the facts

your facts do not apply to this situation. they just don't. stop it

they would take on the issue of police killings across all races in a productive way

there is nothing anybody can read that would convince them not to protest what that cop did. and you're completely ignorant of human nature and race relations if you think there is

The fact that some idiots (not only white, at least not where I am) don't wear masks has nothing to do with whether or not its wrong to gather in large crowds against all expert advice.

experts say that masks mitigate risk. you don't know that? do you notice all the people wearing masks around you?

being in a crowd with masks is less risky than being in a crowd without one. you obviously have no concept of nuance. there's black, there's white, and there are shades of grey. this is a shades of grey situation. there is no perfect answer. just as there's no perfect answer on when to reopen the economy. truly logical people recognize these concepts

This is the second time you've tried to imply two wrongs make a right, which is wrong.

that makes no sense. you have no idea what that saying means, apparently. you pulled it right out of your ass. i never implied anything of the sort. i explicitly said that gathering in a large crowd is generally a bad thing right now. i also said that the benefit of the cause might outweigh the risk. apparently you again ignored that nuanced concept that so you could continue your line of BS

i have never encountered such bizarre logic in my life. is that what "logical art" is? twisted logic performance art? good lord

coronavirus or not, you cannot tell people not to protest after an event like this. PARTICULARLY black people. it's a deranged suggestion. that is all

[Dresden]

I don't see how it can be blamed on a community. Violence and illegal behavior goes hand in hand with poverty. Studies have been done that show if you take a family that lives in a ghetto, and move them to a middle class neighborhood, all the problems you'd expect to see in the ghetto- poor school performance, criminal behavior, unemployment, etc., improve markedly for that family. It's all about access to resources, to the right kind of role models and mentoring, and to opportunity.

I am.agreeing with you.

I am trying to bring logical art INTO the discussion. On his own premise.

I dont want well intentioned people like him to get turned off on BLM.

BLM is not asking for more. Its asking for what's due. And what's fair. And what has already been promised under law to every US citizen.

The problem I think a lot of people have with BLM is that the issues of bad or criminal policing should be addressed regardless of race. It divides people to only address a problem when it involves one subgroup of people. You care about a problem only when it affects people who look like you? Imagine taking that position that about almost any other problem society faces. It wouldn't fly, nor should it. And just from an efficacy standpoint, I think an organization that fought for policing reform and justice for victims of the bad police regardless of race would be more effective. And if indeed a majority of the victims were black, the organization could respond accordingly. But it shouldn't ignore non-black cases.

What do you mean "if indeed"? There are all kinds of studies that have been done showing that yes, black people do get treated differently and worse by the criminal justice system that whites do. It's not an open question that we don't know the answer to.

[logical_art]

I am.agreeing with you.

I am trying to bring logical art INTO the discussion. On his own premise.

I dont want well intentioned people like him to get turned off on BLM.

BLM is not asking for more. Its asking for what's due. And what's fair. And what has already been promised under law to every US citizen.

The problem I think a lot of people have with BLM is that the issues of bad or criminal policing should be addressed regardless of race. It divides people to only address a problem when it involves one subgroup of people. You care about a problem only when it affects people who look like you? Imagine taking that position that about almost any other problem society faces. It wouldn't fly, nor should it. And just from an efficacy standpoint, I think an organization that fought for policing reform and justice for victims of the bad police regardless of race would be more effective. And if indeed a majority of the victims were black, the organization could respond accordingly. But it shouldn't ignore non-black cases.

What do you mean "if indeed"? There are all kinds of studies that have been done showing that yes, black people do get treated differently and worse by the criminal justice system that whites do. It's not an open question that we don't know the answer to.

Sentencing yes, but the relative likelihood of getting shot in a given interaction with cops is less clear. But that wasn't the main point of my post.

[dice]

So the question is what is their end game? Do they want it to where blacks can just simply commit whatever crimes they please with no repercussions?

you can answer that question yourself

the end game is fairly obvious to anyone paying attention. it's the same of that of black lives matter. it's to get black people the same respect from cops that white people get. it's so we can live in a world where black parents don't have to teach their children how not to get killed by cops for no reason ('cause white parents sure don't have to do that). it's so we can live in a world where black people don't have to fear for their safety when they get pulled over for no reason while driving

[dice]

I don't see how it can be blamed on a community. Violence and illegal behavior goes hand in hand with poverty. Studies have been done that show if you take a family that lives in a ghetto, and move them to a middle class neighborhood, all the problems you'd expect to see in the ghetto- poor school performance, criminal behavior, unemployment, etc., improve markedly for that family. It's all about access to resources, to the right kind of role models and mentoring, and to opportunity.

I am.agreeing with you.

I am trying to bring logical art INTO the discussion. On his own premise.

I dont want well intentioned people like him to get turned off on BLM.

BLM is not asking for more. Its asking for what's due. And what's fair. And what has already been promised under law to every US citizen.

The problem I think a lot of people have with BLM is that the issues of bad or criminal policing should be addressed regardless of race. It divides people to only address a problem when it involves one subgroup of people. You care about a problem only when it affects people who look like you? Imagine taking that position that about almost any other problem society faces. It wouldn't fly, nor should it. And just from an efficacy standpoint, I think an organization that fought for policing reform and justice for victims of the bad police regardless of race would be more effective. And if indeed a majority of the victims were black, the organization could respond accordingly. But it shouldn't ignore non-black cases.

the organization has been around several years, and you're still missing the point. in the phrase "black lives matter", the "too" at the end is implied. the idea is to draw attention to racial inequity in police work

what you're doing is the equivalent of saying to someone who's spouse has died of cancer that they shouldn't focus their charity work on cancer just because it's personal to them. after all, there are many problems that deserve our attention, right?

basic attention to human nature should inform you that when people have a personal connection to something they are more likely to have more passion for that subject and thus are more likely to be effective in combating it. passions are inherently personal

[Dominator83]

Part of the bad look too is, the majority of BLMs martyrs are guys that were car jackers, guys that just robbed a liquor store, etc.

What are you talking about? All Floyd did was pass a fake 20 bill, which he may not have even know was fake. By all accounts, he was not a bad dude at all, in fact, just the opposite. Same with a lot of the others- they did nothing like car jacking or robbing- they were murdered by the police because the cops got overzealous.

Im not talking about Floyd. Im talking about the guy that robbed the liquor store in Missouri

[Dresden]

Thousands of Complaints Do Little to Change Police Ways

Efforts to hold problem officers accountable face resistance from unions, and juries are reluctant to second-guess.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/us/derek-chauvin-george-floyd.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
...
She said that in a 2015 meeting after a fatal police shooting, Mr. Kroll (head of the police union) told her that he views community complaints like fouls in basketball. “He told me, ‘If you’re not getting any fouls, you’re not working hard enough,’” she said.
...
Ms. Haberman, the training expert, said police departments will not change until they invest significantly more in recruitment and training, areas where the United States lags far behind other democracies.
Otherwise, she said, “There is a scandal, there is a call for reform — committees and commissions and nothing happens. Nothing.”

[Dominator83]

So the question is what is their end game? Do they want it to where blacks can just simply commit whatever crimes they please with no repercussions?

you can answer that question yourself

the end game is fairly obvious to anyone paying attention. it's the same of that of black lives matter. it's to get black people the same respect from cops that white people get. it's so we can live in a world where black parents don't have to teach their children how not to get killed by cops for no reason ('cause white parents sure don't have to do that). it's so we can live in a world where black people don't have to fear for their safety when they get pulled over for no reason while driving

I hear you there. But respect is earned. 1 out of every 13 blacks is a violent criminal. For whites 1 out of every 105. That's a major gap that needs to be closed considerably. It also shows how different each are being raised. Of course they're gonna have extra attention from police. Its gonna take major effort and reform on both ends before this country gets better. And trust me I wish it would. I would love to live in a world where cops aren't even needed because everyone just simply does the right thing and live their lives the right way. Unfortunately we know that ain't happening in this life

[logical_art]

Protests and riots are erupting across the country. What will the economic and human life toll be on top of a recession and pandemic? Will it be worth whatever is gained?

And what is the end game? The officer has been charged with murder. What are the demands of protesters? Or is it just another round of venting and frustration with little gained?

How much of the turnout is motivated by people simply wanting an excuse to get out of the house after two+ months of lockdown?