Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years"

[Dominator83]

Protests and riots are erupting across the country. What will the economic and human life toll be on top of a recession and pandemic? Will it be worth whatever is gained?

And what is the end game? The officer has been charged with murder. What are the demands of protesters? Or is it just another round of venting and frustration with little gained?

How much of the turnout is motivated by people simply wanting an excuse to get out of the house after two+ months of lockdown?

That's the other thing. Now is absolutely not the time to be causing further economic downturn. Most of the people in this country are already effed as is because of all the damage this virus has caused. And now because of all these **** downtown were about to get slammed with another wave of Covid as well, right before our economy was set to reopen. If people are that passionate and wanna cause damage, drive over to Minnesota, where it actually happened. Destroying your own home just to make a point About something that happened elsewhere, is idiotic. That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Does anyone honestly think people are this outraged over a single murder? Please.

[GetBuLLish]

I honestly can’t believe how many people there are in this country who are ok with or try to justify the rioting and violence going on right now. It’s a disease that can take down a country.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I honestly can’t believe how many people there are in this country who are ok with or try to justify the rioting and violence going on right now. It’s a disease that can take down a country.

Rioting and violence literally built this country.

[musiqsoulchild]

So the question is what is their end game? Do they want it to where blacks can just simply commit whatever crimes they please with no repercussions?

you can answer that question yourself

the end game is fairly obvious to anyone paying attention. it's the same of that of black lives matter. it's to get black people the same respect from cops that white people get. it's so we can live in a world where black parents don't have to teach their children how not to get killed by cops for no reason ('cause white parents sure don't have to do that). it's so we can live in a world where black people don't have to fear for their safety when they get pulled over for no reason while driving

I hear you there. But respect is earned. 1 out of every 13 blacks is a violent criminal. For whites 1 out of every 105. That's a major gap that needs to be closed considerably. It also shows how different each are being raised. Of course they're gonna have extra attention from police. Its gonna take major effort and reform on both ends before this country gets better. And trust me I wish it would. I would love to live in a world where cops aren't even needed because everyone just simply does the right thing and live their lives the right way. Unfortunately we know that ain't happening in this life

Dominater, I know you. I have spent time with you at Doug's draft parties. You're a cool guy. I am going to assume you have no ill intent. And I'll answer accordingly.

Imagine that you live in an impoverished Zipcode A and I live in wealthy Zipcode B. We are both 15 years old.

Zipcode A has the following features:
1) Most parents are doing 2 jobs. Or jobs with such long hours and low wages that they cannot afford after school care for their kids nor be there for you when you get home from school.
2) Most schools do not have after school programs because the system is such that most money goes to affluent zipcodes like mine in Zipcode B.
3) Cop cars and patrols are constant and much larger in magnitude in your neighborhood
4) There really isnt much for you to do here. There really isnt. You dont have a video game store, libraries, even a silly mall where you can jam out casually with friends.
5) There isnt even good public transportation that can take me away from my Zipcode so I can do something meaningful.
6) Because we dont have money but we have a lot of time, we decide to join one of the local gangs. At least that way, there is something to do and there is money to be made.

Meanwhile, I am bored in my rich suburban life in my Zipcode B.

I just came back from a school that has everything from the best teachers to the best gyms. And there are after school programs that serve the function of not only making me more skilled than you but also they keep me under adult supervision far longer than you. So, theres way less opportunity for me to mess up and do something stupid.

Then when I go home, my Mom is home because my Dads salary is enough to run the entire family comfortably. Or, if both my parents are working...they have hired me a sitter who again will ensure that I dont do something too stupid.

I can walk in my Zipcode whenever I want. I can leave my bike outside on the lawn. No ones going to steal it. That makes no sense to me. Why would they?

I can walk to any of the several stores, malls, movie theaters, ice cream shops etc. And safely come back home. In fact, I dont even think about safety. That's not what I think about at all. There are no cops around all the time with horns blaring and pulling over.

I start getting bored though. This life is so predictable and I dont need anything...so I start getting bored. My friends ( also from Zipcode B) decide to make a run to your Zipcode and buy some drugs from you.

We come over and dont know what we are doing. But we see you and come to buy some weed from you.

Because there are cop cars around all the time in your Zipcode, they immediately come onto the scene. You and your other teenager friends from Zipcode B are violently frisked and thrown up against the wall and searched. With cops shouting and sirens blaring. Soon there are 6 cop cars..all lights on and cops on radio. We are all now in the police databases. Some for the second time. And some - if older are going away for a few years.

Meanwhile, I and my friends from Zipcode A in the car..are given a STERN lecture and sent back home. Or given a citation. And asked to leave inmediately.

This is America. Has been for decades now.

I am shocked that only 1 in 13 blacks has been charged with a violent crime. I would have expected that number to be higher.

[musiqsoulchild]

I honestly can’t believe how many people there are in this country who are ok with or try to justify the rioting and violence going on right now. It’s a disease that can take down a country.

The country as it is today is NOT WORKING for a large percentage of minorities.

Apply the same thing to the Bulls. I was always asking for a systemic change in how ownership operates. You were always asking for GarPax to be fired. You wanted immediate action...I wanted long term policy changes.

How is the shoe on the other foot now?

People need to see systemic change. Plain and simple.

[musiqsoulchild]

Protests and riots are erupting across the country. What will the economic and human life toll be on top of a recession and pandemic? Will it be worth whatever is gained?

And what is the end game? The officer has been charged with murder. What are the demands of protesters? Or is it just another round of venting and frustration with little gained?

How much of the turnout is motivated by people simply wanting an excuse to get out of the house after two+ months of lockdown?

That's the other thing. Now is absolutely not the time to be causing further economic downturn. Most of the people in this country are already effed as is because of all the damage this virus has caused. And now because of all these **** downtown were about to get slammed with another wave of Covid as well, right before our economy was set to reopen. If people are that passionate and wanna cause damage, drive over to Minnesota, where it actually happened. Destroying your own home just to make a point About something that happened elsewhere, is idiotic. That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

That is precisely the point.

Looting, rioting occurs mostly in poor neighborhoods. Guess why?

Even in their delirious excitement people know that if they rioted in a rich neighborhood the rubber bullets flying now wouldn't be rubber anymore.

That's how MASSIVE the gap is in America. To have their voice heard they have to burn down their own homes.

[Dresden]

Protests and riots are erupting across the country. What will the economic and human life toll be on top of a recession and pandemic? Will it be worth whatever is gained?

And what is the end game? The officer has been charged with murder. What are the demands of protesters? Or is it just another round of venting and frustration with little gained?

How much of the turnout is motivated by people simply wanting an excuse to get out of the house after two+ months of lockdown?

You're blaming the protestors. Why not turn that question onto the actions of the police officer, and the police force that allows and condones such behavior? Charging one office with murder will not eradicate the racism and brutality and unaccountability. Is it worth it, to allow those things to continue? Is the price worth it, to allow racist and violent police forces to go on doing what they're doing? Why not ask that question, instead of focus on the protestors?

[Dresden]

I honestly can’t believe how many people there are in this country who are ok with or try to justify the rioting and violence going on right now. It’s a disease that can take down a country.

So is racism.

[GetBuLLish]

I honestly can’t believe how many people there are in this country who are ok with or try to justify the rioting and violence going on right now. It’s a disease that can take down a country.

So is racism.

Are you referring to racism (which is a real problem but no where near as significant as it was even just in the recent past and not one of the top problems facing minorities in this country today) or the made-up/exaggerated racism that the media has convinced ignorant people to believe?

If it's the latter you are referring to, then we agree.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Read on Twitter

An excellent Op-Ed from KAJ. He’s such an important voice in social justice.

[Dresden]

I honestly can’t believe how many people there are in this country who are ok with or try to justify the rioting and violence going on right now. It’s a disease that can take down a country.

So is racism.

Are you referring to racism (which is a real problem but no where near as significant as it was even just in the recent past and not one of the top problems facing minorities in this country today) or the made-up/exaggerated racism that the media has convinced ignorant people to believe?

If it's the latter you are referring to, then we agree.

When you say "the media has convinced the ignorant people to believe"- who exactly are your referring to by "the ignorant people"???

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Racism, for some people, is just like COVID-19. They unilaterally decided it was over, devoid of reason, because they’re tired of hearing about it.

[MrSparkle]

I don’t condone violence or looting... but I was in Boston during the Red Sox and Patriots championships. Somebody got run over by an SUV outside my window. Shop windows were destroyed and looted of beer and everything. The city was fine a week later (and ever so elated). I saw mainly white people. There was outcry, but you know.. it was perfectly excusable causing mayhem because the “sports teams won and everyone was drunk.”

The innocents hit in cross-fire are always the reason I disagree with any violent or extreme escalation. But as far as the stores themselves go; if you have a shop on State St, then you have insurance. Correct me if I’m wrong some of these brick and mortar Targets and Macy’s might make more money from the insurance than from the COVID shopping.

But more importantly, it’s sad, but property damage isn’t what worries me but the long-term effect. There isn’t much logic in this movement (and I’m actually concerned with the basic fact that it’s happening everywhere in a rather systematic fashion with no leaders). Unfortunately radical movements are 2 steps forward, 3 steps back.

Arab Spring has led to societal collapse for many countries. Hong Kong has ramped and sped up Chinese suppression.

So while every city catches fire, Trump is in Florida teeing up while rural right watches the blue-voting cities beg for national guard, federal money and deal with a COVID resurgence coupled with rioting.

Tough times - I support the movement and protestors, but sad reality is it is very easy to hijack and it ends in anarchy with no distinct message. But don’t get me wrong. I get the anger. Black community has a right to be fed up. I keep saying it but it is very important that they good assemble leadership in every town. BLM is a valid and righteous movement, but they need figureheads with official platforms so that they don’t get hi-jacked. You can’t have 16-30yos run amok with no Chess plan. So I hope more good folks get involved and calming/re-directing energy positively, like Stephen Jackson.

It’s alarming that Lightfoot isn’t able to communicate to the base, like, at all. I understand - the city is on fire and it is a brutally difficult time. But scolding the mob just made it worse.

[League Circles]

I honestly can’t believe how many people there are in this country who are ok with or try to justify the rioting and violence going on right now. It’s a disease that can take down a country.

Rioting and violence literally built this country.

It's important to distinguish between "protesting", "rioting", and "violence". To me, "protesting is often or even usually great and should be supported and encouraged. "Rioting" is what I refer to as widespread indiscriminate violence against random people, usually concurrent with an otherwise peaceful protest. Under that definition, rioters can all go **** themselves. It's never ok to attack persons or property randomly under the often fake guise of protesting. I basically think rioters and protesters are two different groups of people often found in the same place at the same time. When my friend's store was destroyed and looted last night, everyone who looted it was laughing. Black, white, didn't matter. Those are just **** up people hurting a great citizen indiscriminately. My friend goes way above and beyond the normal burden of a citizen and tries to make this world a better place in multiple ways. I don't believe that any of the 20 or so people that broke and took all his stuff were doing so in the name of social justice.

[League Circles]

The key thing is to address and treat people as INDIVIDUALS. No reason to even discuss peaceful protesters in the context of indentifying, prosectuing and punishing those who indiscriminately damage people and property. They attacked an employee who is in the ER.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I honestly can’t believe how many people there are in this country who are ok with or try to justify the rioting and violence going on right now. It’s a disease that can take down a country.

Rioting and violence literally built this country.

It's important to distinguish between "protesting", "rioting", and "violence". To me, "protesting is often or even usually great and should be supported and encouraged. "Rioting" is what I refer to as widespread indiscriminate violence against random people, usually concurrent with an otherwise peaceful protest. Under that definition, rioters can all go **** themselves. It's never ok to attack persons or property randomly under the often fake guise of protesting. I basically think rioters and protesters are two different groups of people often found in the same place at the same time. When my friend's store was destroyed and looted last night, everyone who looted it was laughing. Black, white, didn't matter. Those are just **** up people hurting a great citizen indiscriminately. My friend goes way above and beyond the normal burden of a citizen and tries to make this world a better place in multiple ways. I don't believe that any of the 20 or so people that broke and took all his stuff were doing so in the name of social justice.

Where do you see "widespread indiscriminate violence against random people" -- aside from what the cops are doing?

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Read on Twitter

[League Circles]

Rioting and violence literally built this country.

It's important to distinguish between "protesting", "rioting", and "violence". To me, "protesting is often or even usually great and should be supported and encouraged. "Rioting" is what I refer to as widespread indiscriminate violence against random people, usually concurrent with an otherwise peaceful protest. Under that definition, rioters can all go **** themselves. It's never ok to attack persons or property randomly under the often fake guise of protesting. I basically think rioters and protesters are two different groups of people often found in the same place at the same time. When my friend's store was destroyed and looted last night, everyone who looted it was laughing. Black, white, didn't matter. Those are just **** up people hurting a great citizen indiscriminately. My friend goes way above and beyond the normal burden of a citizen and tries to make this world a better place in multiple ways. I don't believe that any of the 20 or so people that broke and took all his stuff were doing so in the name of social justice.

Where do you see "widespread indiscriminate violence against random people" -- aside from what the cops are doing?

Maybe a poor word choice. When I wrote "widespread", I meant spread out over a location of a city, usually multiple blocks, etc, during an acute, heightened event of civil unrest. My point was to group "rioting" completely with "violence", and disassociate it from "protesting", which IMO is unrelated and positive.

These 4 things are all completely isolatable things to consider, inspect, and analyze:

1. Exactly what happened in the George Floyd case (and other SPECIFIC criminal activity - in this case criminal action by police officers)
2. The greater issue of excessive police force, which is a big problem throughout the country, especially but not exclusively for black people, and what to do about it policy wise.
3. Peaceful protests promoting social and political change to fix problems such as #2, or to advocate for SPECIFIC responses to examples of #1 (like a call to arrest a particular cop for example)
4. Indiscriminate looting and violence against random citizens and businesses.

These are not different sides of the same issue. They are different phenomenon, and should be addressed as such.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

It's important to distinguish between "protesting", "rioting", and "violence". To me, "protesting is often or even usually great and should be supported and encouraged. "Rioting" is what I refer to as widespread indiscriminate violence against random people, usually concurrent with an otherwise peaceful protest. Under that definition, rioters can all go **** themselves. It's never ok to attack persons or property randomly under the often fake guise of protesting. I basically think rioters and protesters are two different groups of people often found in the same place at the same time. When my friend's store was destroyed and looted last night, everyone who looted it was laughing. Black, white, didn't matter. Those are just **** up people hurting a great citizen indiscriminately. My friend goes way above and beyond the normal burden of a citizen and tries to make this world a better place in multiple ways. I don't believe that any of the 20 or so people that broke and took all his stuff were doing so in the name of social justice.

Where do you see "widespread indiscriminate violence against random people" -- aside from what the cops are doing?

Maybe a poor word choice. When I wrote "widespread", I meant spread out over a location of a city, usually multiple blocks, etc, during an acute, heightened event of civil unrest. My point was to group "rioting" completely with "violence", and disassociate it from "protesting", which IMO is unrelated and positive.

These 4 things are all completely isolatable things to consider, inspect, and analyze:

1. Exactly what happened in the George Floyd case (and other SPECIFIC criminal activity - in this case criminal action by police officers)
2. The greater issue of excessive police force, which is a big problem throughout the country, especially but not exclusively for black people, and what to do about it policy wise.
3. Peaceful protests promoting social and political change to fix problems such as #2, or to advocate for SPECIFIC responses to examples of #1 (like a call to arrest a particular cop for example)
4. Indiscriminate looting and violence against random citizens and businesses.

These are not different sides of the same issue. They are different phenomenon, and should be addressed as such.

OK, but I'm asking, where are the rioters/protesters physically attacking random people?

I'm glued to the news and social media and I haven't seen it. It feels like property damage is being conflated with violence against people, and those are two very different things.