IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT YOU DONT LIKE (UPDATE: he fired himself)

[kazyv]

The point is people here are saying if you put "ALM after BLM" is dismissive to the former as if its a fact when it's not. It's the exact same as people thinking BLM alone means other lives don't matter. Neither of those are true.

Sorry if it seems obvious to you but people have to be reminded of that.

Who do you think you're fooling with the playing dumb argument? You KNOW what happens when someone responds with All Lives Matter, right? Do you really think the other person is saying "you know what, you are right, I thought white lives didn't matter, thanks buddy!"

Do you really think that people saying BLM are that stupid?

When you say All lives matter then, in your head, you have one of these things in mind:
1. You want to dismiss BLM or steer the conversation into useless territory
2. You genuinely think that the person saying this doesn't think other lives matter, which in a way, really insults their intelligence

You just shown me that you have no idea what goes inside peoples head when u don't realize the most obvious reason:

3. This person just said ALM to prove a point. Cousins tweeted hiim to solicit a response for some strange reason (out of nowhere, they havn't made contact in years), naturally Napear didn't want to partake so he said a phrase which INCLUDED black lives matter. This doesn't translate into him being a racist. Borderline, you may call him petty if you discount the fact that he and Cousins probably hate each other, but not a racist or in any way out to undermine a movement.

This is why from my first post I maintained that the only **** here is Cousins. He instigated this whole thing and is using BLM to antagonize someone. It just so happened this guy is unpopular enough for everyone to bite on nothing. From then on, everyone who spoke on this either wanted to pile on, or became pawn to this stupid little game by Cousins. I refuse to contribute towards the satisfaction of douchebag with the mind of a 15 year old.

it's only antagonizing if you have a problem with BLM. and not just a problem, because a nuanced reply might be something along the lines of:"BLM has some problems, but i agree with the movement". no, the problem you would have to have to be antagonized by the question would be that you are opposed to BLM.

[fianchetto]

Thats the problem. There are no time stamps on issues, someone can support the message but it doesn't mean it's the most pressing issue for them at the moment on a personal level. If we go by the logic that ALM is dismissive to BLM then not being able to say ALM after BLM implies that other lives aren't as important as black lives. To top that off other people are now racist for not prioritizing black lives?? That's rich.

Not too long ago this forum was talking about HK or Uyghurs. Do we ban saying "Uyghurs matters" after BLM because it's stealing their thunder? We are allowed to do that right? because as far as I am concerned they are still in concentration camps. Are we turning this into an issue popularity contest?

Equality is what everyone are fighting for correct? What this feels like now is a bully making themselves issue #1 otherwise you are fired from your work place.

How could BLM be dismissive of others when our lives are treated with less importance than others.
It don’t work that way man
It would only be dismissive if everyone’s lives are treated with equal value.

Equality is the very thing black ppl are fighting for

When ALM is brought up, it suggests that everyone’s life is equal..... and we both know that’s not the case e.g. E.g. the death of George Floyd, I’m sure you’d agree that a Caucasian wouldn’t have been subject to that. So where is the equality in lives there???

So when we say BLM it’s because we want the same care/respect that ppl of other races get. and when ppl say ALM as a counter then you’ve take the focus away from the very thing WE are fighting for.

Aren’t we allowed to fight for our equality? Can’t we use a phrase that highlights the people who are at the forefront of the suffering.
Isn’t that okay??

If you think this is some sort of popularity contest then you’re waaaaay off the mark and already missed the point.
And the issues of black lives is a BIG BIG issue, maybe it’s not a big issue to you but for others in America and even around the world, it’s a bloody big issue

No Caucasion would be subject to that...except it happens all the time.

Watch on YouTube

Where to even start? You’re ignoring context. You’re choosing to argue with those suffering in this difficult times.

What are you trying to say? That white people have to go through the same Things as black people? That racism doesn’t exist? That black people aren’t targeted.

ignorant post. Shameful. Just why?

[fianchetto]

The point is people here are saying if you put "ALM after BLM" is dismissive to the former as if its a fact when it's not. It's the exact same as people thinking BLM alone means other lives don't matter. Neither of those are true.

Sorry if it seems obvious to you but people have to be reminded of that.

Who do you think you're fooling with the playing dumb argument? You KNOW what happens when someone responds with All Lives Matter, right? Do you really think the other person is saying "you know what, you are right, I thought white lives didn't matter, thanks buddy!"

Do you really think that people saying BLM are that stupid?

When you say All lives matter then, in your head, you have one of these things in mind:
1. You want to dismiss BLM or steer the conversation into useless territory
2. You genuinely think that the person saying this doesn't think other lives matter, which in a way, really insults their intelligence

You just shown me that you have no idea what goes inside peoples head when u don't realize the most obvious reason:

3. This person just said ALM to prove a point. Cousins tweeted hiim to solicit a response for some strange reason (out of nowhere, they havn't made contact in years), naturally Napear didn't want to partake so he said a phrase which INCLUDED black lives matter. This doesn't translate into him being a racist. Borderline, you may call him petty if you discount the fact that he and Cousins probably hate each other, but not a racist or in any way out to undermine a movement.

This is why from my first post I maintained that the only **** here is Cousins. He instigated this whole thing and is using BLM to antagonize someone. It just so happened this guy is unpopular enough for everyone to bite on nothing. From then on, everyone who spoke on this either wanted to pile on, or became pawn to this stupid little game by Cousins. I refuse to contribute towards the satisfaction of douchebag with the mind of a 15 year old.

Off the mark, way off the mark.

[Saint Lazarus]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

All Lives Matter is not a racist comment. Dismissive? Yes. Misses the point? Yes. Racist? Absolutely not. The definition of racism hasn't changed.

Depends on the context. If you didn’t opt into the “modern definition” of that term, then yes, you are being uneducated, insensitive and dismissive, which is fine, because you can improve.

If you use ALM to purposely dismiss and gaslight BLM, then yes, you are being racist.

But in this case, it's not conclusive that he was being a racist. We saw exactly how the conversation transpired. Dude was gloated on by a enemy AND he didn't even say anything negative. He's not being dismissive to the message of BLM. He was dismissive towards Cousins.

To be punished for something so personal and trivial is unjustified. It's a knee jerk reaction by a organization that's scared of backlash by association, not because they care about the issue.

BLM has been a thing for like 7 years now. You know what you're doing when you throw out the "all lives matter" reply. You don't deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point if you can't understand what the context is.

[Lunartic]

[
and there is the problem.
You’ve completely dismissed the whole point of the phrase and generalised it, thus generalising the issue at hand.

Yes, I've generalized a general phrase. What does BLM mean? It's not some very specific term. It's no different than saying "Humans are important"

Explain further what you mean by "generalizing the issue"

Are people oppressed around the world yes but sorry to burst your bubble dude, but the issue at hand right now is black lives and all the senseless killings we see time and time and time again.

I'm not sure what you're even saying.

You clearly misinterpreted my post and chose to create a strawman. My post was specifically about people that claim to support BLM but ignore the strife of black people in other countries and in the USA.

“As long as your a good person then you don’t need to say black lives matter” - lol what does that even mean

If you're unable to understand what "being a good person" means, then we might not have much to discuss.

and for the 1millionth time, saying black lives matter does not mean we are saying other lives don’t matter, don’t be ridiculous or stop playing dumb dude

Where did I insinuate or state anything like that?

Your entire post is a strawman.

To make it clear for you - I'm simply saying that people run around chanting BLM but have done nothing in their lives to help. Saying a slogan a thousand times changes nothing. Watching the protests, there are quite a few people with BLM signs tearing down and looting black-owned businesses and black communities.

[Lunartic]

How could BLM be dismissive of others when our lives are treated with less importance than others.
It don’t work that way man
It would only be dismissive if everyone’s lives are treated with equal value.

Equality is the very thing black ppl are fighting for

When ALM is brought up, it suggests that everyone’s life is equal..... and we both know that’s not the case e.g. E.g. the death of George Floyd, I’m sure you’d agree that a Caucasian wouldn’t have been subject to that. So where is the equality in lives there???

So when we say BLM it’s because we want the same care/respect that ppl of other races get. and when ppl say ALM as a counter then you’ve take the focus away from the very thing WE are fighting for.

Aren’t we allowed to fight for our equality? Can’t we use a phrase that highlights the people who are at the forefront of the suffering.
Isn’t that okay??

If you think this is some sort of popularity contest then you’re waaaaay off the mark and already missed the point.
And the issues of black lives is a BIG BIG issue, maybe it’s not a big issue to you but for others in America and even around the world, it’s a bloody big issue

No Caucasion would be subject to that...except it happens all the time.

Watch on YouTube

Where to even start? You’re ignoring context. You’re choosing to argue with those suffering in this difficult times.

What are you trying to say? That white people have to go through the same Things as black people? That racism doesn’t exist? That black people aren’t targeted.

ignorant post. Shameful. Just why?

There have been some studies and there's not a clear consensus that Police officers treat suspects among different races differently

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877

https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force

Some critics claim that one of the studies doesn't account for the specific areas the police work in and who they stop, but it's an interesting read and informative.

What sort of data do you have to support what you're saying? This thread will be locked but lets have a discussion before that happens.

[fianchetto]

No Caucasion would be subject to that...except it happens all the time.

Watch on YouTube

Where to even start? You’re ignoring context. You’re choosing to argue with those suffering in this difficult times.

What are you trying to say? That white people have to go through the same Things as black people? That racism doesn’t exist? That black people aren’t targeted.

ignorant post. Shameful. Just why?

There have been some studies and there's not a clear consensus that Police officers treat suspects among different races differently

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877

https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force

Some critics claim that one of the studies doesn't account for the specific areas the police work in and who they stop, but it's an interesting read and informative.

What sort of data do you have to support what you're saying? This thread will be locked but lets have a discussion before that happens.

Not engaging with you or your straw man

[Johnny Bball]

[list=]d[/list]Anyone that says “100%, trust me”.... you know from the start he’s a terrible liar.

And then people proceed and try and defend him and the all lives matter statement... i think I would respect a racist troll more than anyone trying to rationalize the ALM statement to try to make themselves feel warm and fuzzy

[Lunartic]

Where to even start? You’re ignoring context. You’re choosing to argue with those suffering in this difficult times.

What are you trying to say? That white people have to go through the same Things as black people? That racism doesn’t exist? That black people aren’t targeted.

ignorant post. Shameful. Just why?

There have been some studies and there's not a clear consensus that Police officers treat suspects among different races differently

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877

https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force

Some critics claim that one of the studies doesn't account for the specific areas the police work in and who they stop, but it's an interesting read and informative.

What sort of data do you have to support what you're saying? This thread will be locked but lets have a discussion before that happens.

Not engaging with you or your straw man

Whaaaa?

What strawman? Do you even know what a strawman is? I didn't insinuate or create a fake argument.

I posted a couple studies concerning police violence and ASKED your opinion on police violence.

What an embarrassing response.

[fianchetto]

There have been some studies and there's not a clear consensus that Police officers treat suspects among different races differently

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877

https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force

Some critics claim that one of the studies doesn't account for the specific areas the police work in and who they stop, but it's an interesting read and informative.

What sort of data do you have to support what you're saying? This thread will be locked but lets have a discussion before that happens.

Not engaging with you or your straw man

Whaaaa?

What strawman? Do you even know what a strawman is? I didn't insinuate or create a fake argument.

I posted a couple studies concerning police violence and ASKED your opinion on police violence.

What an embarrassing response.

PM me if you want to know what your straw man was. No need to do that here.

[Nuntius]

1. Again, if you believe the responses to them are equal then I don't know what to tell you. They weren't equal and that should be fairly obvious. BLM is a pretty large umbrella so I'm sure many, many folks involved cared deeply about the Daniel Shaver shooting. And many also did not. I'm not going to assume to generalize everyone involved under that umbrella (that's millions and millions of people).

2. I don't believe you for a second when you say that you don't care about the media, but okay. The media is a highly influential vessel of the system that you're literally railing against in the next sentence. If you don't think they're critical in framing people's belief structures then you're incredibly naive and myopic.

1) The response from BLM's part was pretty damn equal. They publicly called out the murder and they protested about it. If you want to dispute that fact, you need to provide some kind of evidence to the contrary. You know, just like I did when I replied to your original post.

2) The media definitely plays a critical role in shaping people's beliefs. They have always been the ones that propagate the views that a country's establishment wants to promote. The US media has played a large role in shaping the beliefs that the average American has and, yes, that includes the ingrained racism that the protests are decrying. That's why I said "don't give me the crap about the media". It's an argument that works against the point you're trying to make, not in favor of it.

1. What!? Compare the amount of media attention of that case or any other number of others to this case or to Michael Brown. Compare the levels of protest. Not even close to similar footing. I think that quite literally should speak for itself. I can't even fathom anyone disputing that. Literally just look around any city in America right now.

2. And what point is that, do you think? The media plays a significant role in influencing the public's level of discourse. That includes selectively manipulating information and perpetuating double standards that work in favor of whatever narrative they find most profitable at any given point in time. If you disagree with any of that then by all means enlighten me.

1) You keep talking about the response of the media. I talk about the response of BLM. At this point, we are just talking past each other.

2) Right and the point I'm making is that the US media has been used to fan the flames of racial hatred and perpetuate racial injustice for most of its existence. I don't care if they have change their tune now because they have played a key role at ingraining racial stereotypes at the minds of everyday Americans and thus are partially responsible for the current situation.

[Lunartic]

Not engaging with you or your straw man

Whaaaa?

What strawman? Do you even know what a strawman is? I didn't insinuate or create a fake argument.

I posted a couple studies concerning police violence and ASKED your opinion on police violence.

What an embarrassing response.

PM me if you want to know what your straw man was. No need to do that here.

I'm more an open discussion type of poster, if you aren't willing to have a discussion of ideas, that's fine. I won't engage with you.

[Brofessor24]

[
and there is the problem.
You’ve completely dismissed the whole point of the phrase and generalised it, thus generalising the issue at hand.

Yes, I've generalized a general phrase. What does BLM mean? It's not some very specific term. It's no different than saying "Humans are important"

Explain further what you mean by "generalizing the issue"

Are people oppressed around the world yes but sorry to burst your bubble dude, but the issue at hand right now is black lives and all the senseless killings we see time and time and time again.

I'm not sure what you're even saying.

You clearly misinterpreted my post and chose to create a strawman. My post was specifically about people that claim to support BLM but ignore the strife of black people in other countries and in the USA.

“As long as your a good person then you don’t need to say black lives matter” - lol what does that even mean

If you're unable to understand what "being a good person" means, then we might not have much to discuss.

and for the 1millionth time, saying black lives matter does not mean we are saying other lives don’t matter, don’t be ridiculous or stop playing dumb dude

Where did I insinuate or state anything like that?

Your entire post is a strawman.

To make it clear for you - I'm simply saying that people run around chanting BLM but have done nothing in their lives to help. Saying a slogan a thousand times changes nothing. Watching the protests, there are quite a few people with BLM signs tearing down and looting black-owned businesses and black communities.

I agree with your points.

I get that some folks who say "ALM" are trying to discredit "BLM," but that is not always the case.

The folks who act like everyone who says "ALM" is a racist can miss me with that ****.

[RB34]

What about Justine Ruszczyk? Did her life not matter?

I guess not

[HotelVitale]

And this at the crux of what Malcolm X warned us about. Yes, a history of oppression and racism brought us to where we are, BUT liberal ideologies, racist at their core, keep us where we are. They have policies that provide temporary relief, garner almost all our votes, and then keep us from getting out of the cycle we’re in because most people are myopic anyway.

It's true and a great burn, but it sort of sounds like you're implying that Malcolm X was a Koch Bros tea party schill. Can you clarify that? It seems odd to imply that he wouldn't have a sophisticated critique of what's happened in the past 50 years.

My old heads who went back and forth about malcolm x, george jackson, etc with me would be pissed at me if I didn't follow up on this. Malcolm X excoriated the white liberal because he thought it presented a false hope that stopped short of liberation. But the goal was liberation and destruction of white imperialism, and he thought there was a possible path to it via black nationalism and international anti-imperialist solidarity. His specific critique of the white liberal is precisely because it was a distraction from a different radical plan--but if you don't believe in either of those two strategies, or if your goal isn't maximal liberation, then the criticism is at best dangling, looking for a new context. I honestly don't see any reasonable reading of Malcolm X that thinks he'd be cool with black folks diving head first into contemporary, unfettered capitalism, or becoming some sort of libertarian spokesperson saying 'you know what gets us to freedom, some weak partnerships with the multinational corporations who run everything!'

[BoogieTime]

Im not sure whether the initial foolishness came from our local sports station KHTK or the Kings themselves, neither have any business getting involved with it

[DavidSterned]

1) The response from BLM's part was pretty damn equal. They publicly called out the murder and they protested about it. If you want to dispute that fact, you need to provide some kind of evidence to the contrary. You know, just like I did when I replied to your original post.

2) The media definitely plays a critical role in shaping people's beliefs. They have always been the ones that propagate the views that a country's establishment wants to promote. The US media has played a large role in shaping the beliefs that the average American has and, yes, that includes the ingrained racism that the protests are decrying. That's why I said "don't give me the crap about the media". It's an argument that works against the point you're trying to make, not in favor of it.

1. What!? Compare the amount of media attention of that case or any other number of others to this case or to Michael Brown. Compare the levels of protest. Not even close to similar footing. I think that quite literally should speak for itself. I can't even fathom anyone disputing that. Literally just look around any city in America right now.

2. And what point is that, do you think? The media plays a significant role in influencing the public's level of discourse. That includes selectively manipulating information and perpetuating double standards that work in favor of whatever narrative they find most profitable at any given point in time. If you disagree with any of that then by all means enlighten me.

1) You keep talking about the response of the media. I talk about the response of BLM. At this point, we are just talking past each other.

2) Right and the point I'm making is that the US media has been used to fan the flames of racial hatred and perpetuate racial injustice for most of its existence. I don't care if they have change their tune now because they have played a key role at ingraining racial stereotypes at the minds of everyday Americans and thus are partially responsible for the current situation.

1. BLM is not just a few people on a board of trustees who may or may not have held protests. BLM is a huge umbrella and has tons of self-described followers and supporters in every region and large city of the country. The evidence for BLM involved protests being on a smaller scale following the death of Daniel Shaver (or other non-black victims) is pretty self-explanatory. There weren't widespread major demonstrations whatsoever in 2016 or in 2017 when that body-cam footage was released. I understand there are a multitude of reasons for that, but it is still an objective reality.

2. The mass media definitely plays a big part in us wading through the mud, but we must remember that tribalism and prejudice are intrinsic to human nature. It's an ugly reality but that is who we are as a species and no nation or ethnic group in human history is beyond reproach. The problem we see right now is that the power dynamic in this country has shifted increasingly in favor of the few and those few are holding themselves to an even lower standard of accountability than the rest of us (which is already quite low). And the many are being further divided by empty rhetoric that in most cases contributes nothing to tangible progress.

[heatwillbeback]

Best case scenario for this guy is that he is just clueless and ignorant. That’s best case.

Comments were so dumb and he kept repeating them.

[Duke4life831]

How could BLM be dismissive of others when our lives are treated with less importance than others.
It don’t work that way man
It would only be dismissive if everyone’s lives are treated with equal value.

Equality is the very thing black ppl are fighting for

When ALM is brought up, it suggests that everyone’s life is equal..... and we both know that’s not the case e.g. E.g. the death of George Floyd, I’m sure you’d agree that a Caucasian wouldn’t have been subject to that. So where is the equality in lives there???

So when we say BLM it’s because we want the same care/respect that ppl of other races get. and when ppl say ALM as a counter then you’ve take the focus away from the very thing WE are fighting for.

Aren’t we allowed to fight for our equality? Can’t we use a phrase that highlights the people who are at the forefront of the suffering.
Isn’t that okay??

If you think this is some sort of popularity contest then you’re waaaaay off the mark and already missed the point.
And the issues of black lives is a BIG BIG issue, maybe it’s not a big issue to you but for others in America and even around the world, it’s a bloody big issue

No Caucasion would be subject to that...except it happens all the time.

Watch on YouTube

Where to even start? You’re ignoring context. You’re choosing to argue with those suffering in this difficult times.

What are you trying to say? That white people have to go through the same Things as black people? That racism doesn’t exist? That black people aren’t targeted.

ignorant post. Shameful. Just why?

I like to stay out of all this stuff on here. All AussieCeltic was reply to a question that was asked. I understand we are in a very fragile moment, but lets not completely throw out any chance of a discussion because of that. Someone said something like that wouldnt happen to a white person, AussieCeltic showed evidence that something very similar did happen to a white person. That is a very legit response to what was being presented.

I totally get asking for more context of that situation and so on, like an actual legit back and forth discussion with no ill intent (which should never be frowned upon). But to just shoot it down and call it ignorant and shameful for him replying to a very specific statement, is pretty dumb in my opinion. Just saying.

[TravisScott55]

Nobody was saying "all lives matter" until black people started saying "Black lives matter". So that alone shows you the racist undertones.