IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT YOU DONT LIKE (UPDATE: he fired himself)

[kazyv]

I dont know this guy at all so I can't speak for him. He could be a jerk for all I know.

With that said just coming from a logic point of view I do not believe many racists actually believe "all lives matter" even if some say it. That does not mean that some racists do not say that. I just would not assume someone was a racist for saying it. A KKK guy or a Nazi guy does not believe Black, Jewish, Gay, Hispanic, etc lives matter at all in my opinion. I doubt we would ever hear Hitler saying "all lives matter". There is legit racism and bigotry in this world. I do not think we have much chance of fixing that if we focus so much on the trees (small things) but miss the forest (big things). If I asked a 2nd grade class if black lives matter they would say yes. If I asked a 2nd grade class if all lives matter they would say yes. Point is they would not automatically be racist for saying that. I think we have to look at peoples hearts and actions much more than sayings, phrases, or hastags if we really want to become a fairer society.

what is the point of stating such an obvious thing then? and what is the value of stating it in the context of BLM?

[Galloisdaman]

I dont know this guy at all so I can't speak for him. He could be a jerk for all I know.

With that said just coming from a logic point of view I do not believe many racists actually believe "all lives matter" even if some say it. That does not mean that some racists do not say that. I just would not assume someone was a racist for saying it. A KKK guy or a Nazi guy does not believe Black, Jewish, Gay, Hispanic, etc lives matter at all in my opinion. I doubt we would ever hear Hitler saying "all lives matter". There is legit racism and bigotry in this world. I do not think we have much chance of fixing that if we focus so much on the trees (small things) but miss the forest (big things). If I asked a 2nd grade class if black lives matter they would say yes. If I asked a 2nd grade class if all lives matter they would say yes. Point is they would not automatically be racist for saying that. I think we have to look at peoples hearts and actions much more than sayings, phrases, or hastags if we really want to become a fairer society.

what is the point of stating such an obvious thing then? and what is the value of stating it in the context of BLM?

"Out of the mouths of babes" I find a lot of logic in the hearts and souls of children. Do you think a persons heart and actions are more or less important than a phrase? Black Lives Do Matter. Logically speaking in order for all lives to matter blacks lives have to matter. Should we assume somebody that has never done anything racist in their lives is a racist because they say all lives matter? What if that person is Black? Are we going to improve society if we are so quick to label anyone a racist without being certain of it?

[Bornstellar]

lmao. so the opinion of two years olds matters on the topic of systematic racism in America? Ok

[Galloisdaman]

lmao. so the opinion of two years olds matters on the topic of systematic racism in America? Ok

If you can find many 2 year olds in the 2nd grade please do ask their opinion. They must be pretty smart!

[Bornstellar]

lmao. so the opinion of two years olds matters on the topic of systematic racism in America? Ok

If you can find many 2 year olds in the 2nd grade please do ask their opinion. They must be pretty smart!

you got me there, meant to put 7 year olds and got the 2nd grade part mixed up.

The point still stands. We're putting stock in a 7 year olds opinion on systematic racism in america? ok.

[kazyv]

I dont know this guy at all so I can't speak for him. He could be a jerk for all I know.

With that said just coming from a logic point of view I do not believe many racists actually believe "all lives matter" even if some say it. That does not mean that some racists do not say that. I just would not assume someone was a racist for saying it. A KKK guy or a Nazi guy does not believe Black, Jewish, Gay, Hispanic, etc lives matter at all in my opinion. I doubt we would ever hear Hitler saying "all lives matter". There is legit racism and bigotry in this world. I do not think we have much chance of fixing that if we focus so much on the trees (small things) but miss the forest (big things). If I asked a 2nd grade class if black lives matter they would say yes. If I asked a 2nd grade class if all lives matter they would say yes. Point is they would not automatically be racist for saying that. I think we have to look at peoples hearts and actions much more than sayings, phrases, or hastags if we really want to become a fairer society.

what is the point of stating such an obvious thing then? and what is the value of stating it in the context of BLM?

"Out of the mouths of babes" I find a lot of logic in the hearts and souls of children. Do you think a persons heart and actions are more or less important than a phrase? Black Lives Do Matter. Logically speaking in order for all lives to matter blacks lives have to matter. Should we assume somebody that has never done anything racist in their lives is a racist because they say all lives matter? What if that person is Black? Are we going to improve society if we are so quick to label anyone a racist without being certain of it?

this isn't about children, no reasonable grown-up will dispute ALM. it's an obvious truth. so what is the purpose of stating the obvious? what is the purpose of grant replying with ALM to a question about BLM?

[Galloisdaman]

lmao. so the opinion of two years olds matters on the topic of systematic racism in America? Ok

If you can find many 2 year olds in the 2nd grade please do ask their opinion. They must be pretty smart!

you got me there, meant to put 7 year olds and got the 2nd grade part mixed up.

The point still stands. We're putting stock in a 7 year olds opinion on systematic racism in america? ok.

Only if that was my whole post. Actually that is another part of cancel culture I really find harmful to society. The media (or twitter mobs) will often take 1 small snipit sometimes out of context and try to ruin someone. I'm not saying you did that. My point is that we should look at a persons actions and not automatically convict someone as racist if they have never done anything racist in their lives. That does not help anyone. Plenty of black people have said all lives matter. For us to improve as a society we should be fair to all instead of playing the gotcha game.

[yellowknifer]

I dont get it, whats wrong what he said?

or.

From a Reddit user’s explanation

Imagine that you're sitting down to dinner with your family, and while everyone else gets a serving of the meal, you don't get any. So you say "I should get my fair share." And as a direct response to this, your dad corrects you, saying, "everyone should get their fair share." Now, that's a wonderful sentiment -- indeed, everyone should, and that was kinda your point in the first place: that you should be a part of everyone, and you should get your fair share also. However, dad's smart-ass comment just dismissed you and didn't solve the problem that you still haven't gotten any!

The problem is that the statement "I should get my fair share" had an implicit "too" at the end: "I should get my fair share, too, just like everyone else." But your dad's response treated your statement as though you meant "only I should get my fair share", which clearly was not your intention. As a result, his statement that "everyone should get their fair share," while true, only served to ignore the problem you were trying to point out.

That's the situation of the "black lives matter" movement. Culture, laws, the arts, religion, and everyone else repeatedly suggest that all lives should matter. Clearly, that message already abounds in our society.

The problem is that, in practice, the world doesn't work the way. You see the film Nightcrawler? You know the part where Renee Russo tells Jake Gyllenhal that she doesn't want footage of a black or latino person dying, she wants news stories about affluent white people being killed? That's not made up out of whole cloth -- there is a news bias toward stories that the majority of the audience (who are white) can identify with. So when a young black man gets killed (prior to the recent police shootings), it's generally not considered "news", while a middle-aged white woman being killed is treated as news. And to a large degree, that is accurate -- young black men are killed in significantly disproportionate numbers, which is why we don't treat it as anything new. But the result is that, societally, we don't pay as much attention to certain people's deaths as we do to others. So, currently, we don't treat all lives as though they matter equally.

Just like asking dad for your fair share, the phrase "black lives matter" also has an implicit "too" at the end: it's saying that black lives should also matter. But responding to this by saying "all lives matter" is willfully going back to ignoring the problem. It's a way of dismissing the statement by falsely suggesting that it means "only black lives matter," when that is obviously not the case. And so saying "all lives matter" as a direct response to "black lives matter" is essentially saying that we should just go back to ignoring the problem.

TL;DR: The phrase "Black lives matter" carries an implicit "too" at the end; it's saying that black lives should also matter. Saying "all lives matter" is dismissing the very problems that the phrase is trying to draw attention to.

I don't buy the reddit explanation. he's implying that the phrase carries an implicit 'too' but that's just his presumption, no one can prove that

Indeed. They could have easily added the too to the slogan and it would have been so effective at conveying the message almost no one would disagree. Instead they did this.

[Johnny Bball]

I dont know this guy at all so I can't speak for him. He could be a jerk for all I know.

With that said just coming from a logic point of view I do not believe many racists actually believe "all lives matter" even if some say it. That does not mean that some racists do not say that. I just would not assume someone was a racist for saying it. A KKK guy or a Nazi guy does not believe Black, Jewish, Gay, Hispanic, etc lives matter at all in my opinion. I doubt we would ever hear Hitler saying "all lives matter". There is legit racism and bigotry in this world. I do not think we have much chance of fixing that if we focus so much on the trees (small things) but miss the forest (big things). If I asked a 2nd grade class if black lives matter they would say yes. If I asked a 2nd grade class if all lives matter they would say yes. Point is they would not automatically be racist for saying that. I think we have to look at peoples hearts and actions much more than sayings, phrases, or hastags if we really want to become a fairer society.

Let's just hope you aren't a teacher, for their sake. And if you don't get it, why even talk.

[Galloisdaman]

I dont know this guy at all so I can't speak for him. He could be a jerk for all I know.

With that said just coming from a logic point of view I do not believe many racists actually believe "all lives matter" even if some say it. That does not mean that some racists do not say that. I just would not assume someone was a racist for saying it. A KKK guy or a Nazi guy does not believe Black, Jewish, Gay, Hispanic, etc lives matter at all in my opinion. I doubt we would ever hear Hitler saying "all lives matter". There is legit racism and bigotry in this world. I do not think we have much chance of fixing that if we focus so much on the trees (small things) but miss the forest (big things). If I asked a 2nd grade class if black lives matter they would say yes. If I asked a 2nd grade class if all lives matter they would say yes. Point is they would not automatically be racist for saying that. I think we have to look at peoples hearts and actions much more than sayings, phrases, or hastags if we really want to become a fairer society.

Let's just hope you aren't a teacher, for their sake. And if you don't get it, why even talk.

That is a very well thought out and logical way to discuss this subject. Thank you.

[fianchetto]

No Caucasion would be subject to that...except it happens all the time.

Watch on YouTube

Where to even start? You’re ignoring context. You’re choosing to argue with those suffering in this difficult times.

What are you trying to say? That white people have to go through the same Things as black people? That racism doesn’t exist? That black people aren’t targeted.

ignorant post. Shameful. Just why?

I'm of mixed race and have experienced racism so feel I can speak on this. It's 100% still very prevalent in Australia and United States but let's focus on the real racism. Stats show that cops aren't inherently racist at all. Are there racist cops? heck yeh there are. But not to the level that people think there is. FBI Stats show that out of 10,000 violent crimes committed by either race a white person is MORE likely to be killed by a cop than a black person. To me, that signals that there isn't a race problem WITH THE POLICE. Now you can bring up systematic racism and how that leads to more blacks committing crimes and I'm on your side. But the battle is not with the police.

Thanks for the response. While I don’t necessarily agree I’m happy to hear your side. I’m interested to see that data so that I can interpret it for myself. A lot of times I see misinterpretation of statistics due to lack of background in math or simply glossing over relevant facts. For example when people compare pure numbers and not per capita. Not saying you misinterpreted anything, just Wondering what data you’re talking about. To be transparent, I’ve also experience racism.

[AussieCeltic]

Where to even start? You’re ignoring context. You’re choosing to argue with those suffering in this difficult times.

What are you trying to say? That white people have to go through the same Things as black people? That racism doesn’t exist? That black people aren’t targeted.

ignorant post. Shameful. Just why?

I'm of mixed race and have experienced racism so feel I can speak on this. It's 100% still very prevalent in Australia and United States but let's focus on the real racism. Stats show that cops aren't inherently racist at all. Are there racist cops? heck yeh there are. But not to the level that people think there is. FBI Stats show that out of 10,000 violent crimes committed by either race a white person is MORE likely to be killed by a cop than a black person. To me, that signals that there isn't a race problem WITH THE POLICE. Now you can bring up systematic racism and how that leads to more blacks committing crimes and I'm on your side. But the battle is not with the police.

Thanks for the response. While I don’t necessarily agree I’m happy to hear your side. I’m interested to see that data so that I can interpret it for myself. A lot of times I see misinterpretation of statistics due to lack of background in math or simply glossing over relevant facts. For example when people compare pure numbers and not per capita. Not saying you misinterpreted anything, just Wondering what data your talking about. To be transparent, I’ve also experience racism.

The numbers weren't based on per capita but rather for every 10,000 crimes committed. The links were on a tweet that I was reading a few days back. I'll see if I can find them for you.

[fianchetto]

I'm of mixed race and have experienced racism so feel I can speak on this. It's 100% still very prevalent in Australia and United States but let's focus on the real racism. Stats show that cops aren't inherently racist at all. Are there racist cops? heck yeh there are. But not to the level that people think there is. FBI Stats show that out of 10,000 violent crimes committed by either race a white person is MORE likely to be killed by a cop than a black person. To me, that signals that there isn't a race problem WITH THE POLICE. Now you can bring up systematic racism and how that leads to more blacks committing crimes and I'm on your side. But the battle is not with the police.

Thanks for the response. While I don’t necessarily agree I’m happy to hear your side. I’m interested to see that data so that I can interpret it for myself. A lot of times I see misinterpretation of statistics due to lack of background in math or simply glossing over relevant facts. For example when people compare pure numbers and not per capita. Not saying you misinterpreted anything, just Wondering what data your talking about. To be transparent, I’ve also experience racism.

The numbers weren't based on per capita but rather for every 10,000 crimes committed. The links were on a tweet that I was reading a few days back. I'll see if I can find them for you.

Are you aware of the incarceration statistics in the US? They are egregious.

The justice system, starting with the beat cop out on patrol, is a revolving door for young black men. The statistics are staggering. I don’t really see how you can look at those and say things are ok...

[wutevahung]

or.

From a Reddit user’s explanation

I don't buy the reddit explanation. he's implying that the phrase carries an implicit 'too' but that's just his presumption, no one can prove that

Indeed. They could have easily added the too to the slogan and it would have been so effective at conveying the message almost no one would disagree. Instead they did this.

This is exactly what white privilege and what modern racism looks like. Instead of taking it as an opportunity to learn about the movement, to understand the systematic suppression that minorities face, they are criticizing the grammar of it for not being clear enough to them, and they think the white man who works in media doesn’t know what ALM mean in this context, even though all those players actually met him.

You guys can play dumb all you want, but it’s pretty obvious what type of people would want to downplay BLM.

No racist people ever think they are racist.

[NyKnicks1714]

Don't want to get too political, but the right is is really good at branding, and I wish the left was better. By using a phrase like "All Lives Matter", which is wonderfully inclusive in a vacuum, you're able to attract people who really have no idea what's going on.

[Ambrose]

Accuse me of living under a rock (which is partially true) but I genuinely didn't know 'too' was supposedly implied with BLM until this thread and I've been aware of them for years. It sounds way more logical that way.

[ChaosHamster]

Its possible I'am completely off and misinterpreting the situation, someone correct me if thats the case.

The outrage and protests initially started against police brutality. Every race suffers from it, and yes, its obvious black man in particularly are more targeted and are suffering from it more.

But how its fair towards other racial groups who were victims of police brutality or are somehow related to the issue, that now they are excluded and its all about BLM and BLM only?

Everyone loves those pictures with burning house. How I see it: Every house is on fire, while one is burning substantially stronger, but all the resources and attention are brought to that one house and you can't even mention the other ones.

[RRyder823]

I'm of mixed race and have experienced racism so feel I can speak on this. It's 100% still very prevalent in Australia and United States but let's focus on the real racism. Stats show that cops aren't inherently racist at all. Are there racist cops? heck yeh there are. But not to the level that people think there is. FBI Stats show that out of 10,000 violent crimes committed by either race a white person is MORE likely to be killed by a cop than a black person. To me, that signals that there isn't a race problem WITH THE POLICE. Now you can bring up systematic racism and how that leads to more blacks committing crimes and I'm on your side. But the battle is not with the police.

Thanks for the response. While I don’t necessarily agree I’m happy to hear your side. I’m interested to see that data so that I can interpret it for myself. A lot of times I see misinterpretation of statistics due to lack of background in math or simply glossing over relevant facts. For example when people compare pure numbers and not per capita. Not saying you misinterpreted anything, just Wondering what data your talking about. To be transparent, I’ve also experience racism.

The numbers weren't based on per capita but rather for every 10,000 crimes committed. The links were on a tweet that I was reading a few days back. I'll see if I can find them for you.

I've seen those stats

Its for every 10,000 black people arrested for a violent crime 3 are killed.

For every 10,000 white people arrested for a violent crime 4 are killed.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-43

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/police-shootings-2018/



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[zimpy27]

Its possible I'am completely off and misinterpreting the situation, someone correct me if thats the case.

The outrage and protests initially started against police brutality. Every race suffers from it, and yes, its obvious black man in particularly are more targeted and are suffering from it more.

But how its fair towards other racial groups who were victims of police brutality or are somehow related to the issue, that now they are excluded and its all about BLM and BLM only?

Everyone loves those pictures with burning house. How I see it: Every house is on fire, while one is burning substantially stronger, but all the resources and attention are brought to that one house and you can't even mention the other ones.

A rising tide lifts all boats.

Everyone will benefit from reform and this message is strongest if led by BLM.

Don't fuss over the details, it makes it look like you're looking for a reason to be contrary.

[wutevahung]

Accuse me of living under a rock (which is partially true) but I genuinely didn't know 'too' was supposedly implied with BLM until this thread and I've been aware of them for years. It sounds way more logical that way.

Naw man we all have to learn. Why do “only black lives matter” was my first thought as well when it first started, but I read, researched and educated myself, and I hope everyone can do the same, instead of finding excuses for the privileges.